I guess those who will see benefits would tend to be those with big potential efficiency gains?

Certainly the case with me 🙂

there is a difference between them and heavily padded ‘normal’ shoes ie the more common kind.

Ahh the old straw man!

not unless you count the whatsit ganglion thingy on the outside irritated by ITB, but that happened regardless of shoe

How many shoes did you try? Also did you develop the injury then try a different shoe? Bit like “opportunity cost” really. Once you have done one thing you cant go back and change it can you?

Oh give me a break.

You know what I mean. Most ‘normal’ running shoes, that you will see around Docklands at lunchtime being worn by recreational 9m30 runners, are well padded. That’s what I mean by ‘normal’ shoes. But enough of that.

How many shoes did you try?

I’ve owned and run lots in 4 pairs of shoes and always had the problem. The symptoms never changed. Foam rollering solved it.

You know what I mean. Most ‘normal’ running shoes, that you will see around Docklands at lunchtime being worn by recreational 9m30 runners, are well padded. That’s what I mean by ‘normal’ shoes. But enough of that.

Except that you seem to want it both ways. You try to create this image of a “normal” “heavily padded” shoe etc and whilst there are excessively padded shoes with large heels and thick midsolses there are also much flatter shoes and these shoes have been around for as long as I can remember (and I have been running competitively for over 30 years!)
You are the victim of a fad. If you want the shoes you describe there are lots of them around and there always have been.

I’ve owned and run lots in 4 pairs of shoes and always had the problem

Thats not a fair sample

Also what happened to “barefoot” running. or have they all died of Tetanus?

so, it’s a fad, but they’ve been around for ages.

so, which is it?

🙂

“heavily padded”

the shoes you describe there are lots of them around and there always have been.

molgrips uses minimus, they’re about as padded as a plimsoll – only much wider, and with a usefull grip.

i guess he doesn’t care* if they’re a ‘new’ idea or not, he likes them – is that ok with you?

You are the victim of a fad.

No I’m not.

I thought to myself that I wanted to try flat shoes. I went into a shop, tried some, and bought some. How is that a fad? Remember I don’t read running mags or running websites, I don’t belong to a club, and I don’t talk to other runners. I only knew there was a fad after I bought the shoes.

In fact I went into a local shop before I bought the Minimus and asked about flat shoes, they had nothing to offer me. They had some shoes on the wall that I later found out were what people call ‘racing flats’ – I asked about them because they looked flat, but she wouldn’t sell them to me saying they weren’t durable enough for training and general running.

go back to my initial post, its not about being anything about a fad… simply, i have a pair of road shoes i like. i have a pair of offroad shoes i like even more. i’m wondering if a similar pair of road shoes from the same maker will give me the same feeling. thats all.

so, it’s a fad, but they’ve been around for ages.

so, which is it?

The shoes being described have been around for a very long time. The marketing concept of “zero drop” is the fad.

I only knew there was a fad after I bought the shoes.

So you accept it is a “fad”?

You dont have to be aware that it is a fad to be a victim of it.

@gavtheoldskater

Well that wasnt really your initial post though was it ???

Oh you win. It’s a fad, I’m a victim.

Should I change my shoes now then? How can I be not a fad victim? Is it bad if I am a fad victim? How can I be sure that the new shoes I buy aren’t going to be a fad, if being unaware of fads is no protection?

surfer – Member

The shoes being described have been around for a very long time.

maybe*, and?

surfer – Member

You dont have to be aware that it is a fad to be a victim of it.

sure, but i don’t see where the ‘victim’ bit applies here, lots of people are wearing shoes they feel comfy in – and that’s a bad thing?

(*they’ve been doing a good job of hiding though – i had a similar experience to molgrips – accelerate in sheffield just looked at me like i had 2 heads when i asked for something grippy+wide+thin)

Hmm.. then again, is it an anti-fad to change my shoes? Is an anti-fad just a fad? Probably, unless you are permanently anti-fad in which case it’s ok. But that means not trying anything new – because it might be a fad. Even then though if never trying new things becomes a fad you’ll be automatically a fad victim without doing anything.

It’s a minefield isn’t it?

jeez, good old stw, always someone looking to argue. next up you’ll be telling me that my bright yellow waterproof cassette/radio walkman that belts out olivia newton john’s ‘physical’ as i powerwalk along is just so 1980’s.

(*they’ve been doing a good job of hiding though – i had a similar experience to molgrips – accelerate in sheffield just looked at me like i had 2 heads when i asked for something grippy+wide+thin)

THIS
At least now minimalist shoes are popular you can go into Sports Direct and buy some NB Minimus for £25 or so, and plenty of other mainstream shops are doing the more expensive ones e.g. Merrell. I’ve no idea where in the average town a new runner could go to get “proper” racing flats or whatever it is has been around since 1066.

NB Minimus for £25 or so

Fad or not, considering you can pick up these shoes for the same as a bog standard pair of cheap standard shoes. It’s hard to see anyone is being a victim.

I’d be more worried about folk buying these http://www.run4it.com/shop/shoes/mens/gel-kayano-20-ss2014-1/

Wow, £25 is a steal I paid something like US $80. I’m not exactly high mileage but I’ve had them a fair few years and they’re showing almost no sign of wear, so they look like great VFM at that price.

It’s a minefield isn’t it?

I don’t really think so. For me it’s quite simple (a concept I know will confuse the hell out of you 😀 and you’ll almost certainly disagree)

It’s just giving choice, some stuff works for some, other stuff works for others. There’s no one shoe size fits all you could say.

You can spend a lot, you can spend a little. From Salomon s-lab to ebay gym plimsoles.

The New Balance stuff always seems to turn up on the cheap somewhere. I think mine where £37.

It’s a minefield isn’t it?
I don’t really think so

Did you miss the slight sarcasm in my post? 🙂

The shoes being described have been around for a very long time. The marketing concept of “zero drop” is the fad.

To be fair Surfer, most “converts” I know are tediously aware of the basic history of the development of structured cushioned shoes and the long history of “minimalist/barefoot/wot ever” footwear. And many are aware that their choices are influenced by the options shown to them, by marketing.

How would you advise them to not be victims? Wear shoes that don’t work as well for them but cost just as much. Or head out into the man cave to craft Taramuhara sandals out of old bicycle tyres and dog hair?

Did you miss the slight sarcasm in my post?

Sorry, I was too busy concentrating on my own (well intended) sarcasm. 🙂

Unless you’re racing it’s daft using flats. I’d train in spikes on the track but that’s a speed and form thing. Roads or country and you want support. Road races over 10k I’d also use proper shoes.

I don’t recognise this term ‘drop’ that people are using though. Is this the industry trying to technicalise running to make more money somehow?

Should I change my shoes now then? How can I be not a fad victim? Is it bad if I am a fad victim? How can I be sure that the new shoes I buy aren’t going to be a fad, if being unaware of fads is no protection?

I would suggest you stop evangelising then looking innocent when people point out its a fad.

Wear shoes that don’t work as well for them but cost just as much. Or head out into the man cave to craft Taramuhara sandals out of old bicycle tyres and dog hair?

I dont think I would go to that extreme and its certainly not what I would recommend.
I really dont know the answer and over the years I have bought and ran in shoes that were possibly a bit gimmicky in my efforts to be a better runner. I think people should stop advocating solutions to other people though as we all make bad purchasing decisions!

Unless you’re racing it’s daft using flats. I’d train in spikes on the track but that’s a speed and form thing. Roads or country and you want support. Road races over 10k I’d also use proper shoes.

I don’t recognise this term ‘drop’ that people are using though. Is this the industry trying to technicalise running to make more money somehow?

Welcome

But that means not trying anything new – because it might be a fad.

Maybe but some peoples “fadometer” is slightly better calibrated.
In terms of it being “new” see my previous posts. You are describing shoes I ran my pb’s in during the 80/90’s

Unless you’re racing it’s daft using flats. I’d train in spikes on the track but that’s a speed and form thing. Roads or country and you want support. Road races over 10k I’d also use proper shoes.

Careful now, I get offended when folk suggest running on the road. Horrible stuff.

With that in mind, what about Fell/Hill running. What about Walsh PBs? Folk run all sorts of stuff, and have all sorts of different requirements.

I would suggest you stop evangelising

Come off it. The OP asked for experiences, I gave him mine. Wrong there again I’m sure.

Roads or country and you want support

I don’t.

Maybe but some peoples “fadometer” is slightly better calibrated

So am I using the wrong shoes or not? What would you suggest I use?

I’ve been told about spikes for track work, I’m doing 400m intervals should I be in spikes?

I’d get spikes if I were on a track, they are nice and shaved a second off my 200m time for free when I tried them.

I don’t recognise this term ‘drop’ that people are using though. Is this the industry trying to technicalise running to make more money somehow?

it describes the vertical difference in the height of the sole between the heel and the toe.

This running thing is getting expensive 🙄

I’ve been told about spikes for track work, I’m doing 400m intervals should I be in spikes?

Edit misread your question!

Depends on how quick you are moving and how many you are doing. As a longer distance runner any efforts longer than about 200m and I wore flats but my reps would be quite slow but lots of them and with very short recoveries. eg 24 x 400 in 70-75 secs with a 60-90 sec recovery.
If you are only running 3 at 55 seconds then spikes would be a good idea!

Ok thanks surfer, I’m doing pyramid 400m. 20-30x depending on the session. Lap time is about the same, but I’m struggling to maintain that for the whole session at the minute. Want to vom most of the time!

Any old cheap spikes? I wear addidas normal shoes

struggling to maintain that for the whole session at the minute

Reduce the number of reps but try to keep the recovery the same and dont extend that. Are you doing them in a group?
pyramid? are you doing 20-30 x 400?

So, 1 lap, then 2 then and so on up to 5 laps with 1-2 minute rest in between, I think maybe im going to loose the 2000m one 8)

Sound like a tough session. Worth a try if you fancy it, the good thing is there’s always someone selling them cheap. I got mine for £17.50 a couple of years ago. What kind of track is it? We use a grass track in summer and I’d probably only benefit on a shorter distance and I’d be reverting to trudging around on multiple laps. Oh and then there’s a world of geekery on what length spike to go for 🙂

PS You really need spikes for cross country but you’ve just missed the season unfortunately.

Tracks can be hard, especially when you move onto ash. For general training you’ll be fine with trainers, but if you’re racing and you are building up to race fitness you’d need to use spikes to teach the legs what speed they are going to have to turn over at.

Only worth fussing about if you’re racing.

I’ve not raced for a long time now, and the term ‘drop’ wasn’t in use when I was (probably 12-14 year ago). I’d race roughly 4:00 1500m and training for this might include 8x300m reps at faster than race pace with 2 min recovery jogs (not static). Plus pace runs of 4000m (single rep) after a thorough warm up. This is in addition to the base training routine of distance runs and hill reps/tempo runs. Last session before a race would be something like 3 days before it and consist of 5x200m sprints or something like that.

By the time you’ve done nothing for 3 days your legs are itching to get going and you can explode a sprint start to get the head of a race without going into overload.

Fastest starts were usually in the XC mass events. Get a spot in the first ten of 200 runners within 400 metres of the start and you were among your peers to race the rest of the distance without the slower guys getting in the way!

Sorry, I’ve gone off topic and moved onto reminiscing now, how I miss running!

All this talk of spikes has me all nostalgic too 🙂 funnily enough my spikes were extremely similar to my current running shoes..

thanks guys, interesting comments. i’m going to order the road-X 255 and see how i get on. if i like them and the style of running i figure i can go more extreme later on but for now they seem a good way in.

PS You really need spikes for cross country but you’ve just missed the season unfortunately.

Not quite – National champs at Wollaton Park in Nottingham in a week’s time. Anyone else going?

Anyone else going?

Nope, gave that up when they started letting any riffraff in 😀