I've just looked on the White Room website and it does look remarkably similar to TrailAddictions!!!

Don't know about the White Room, but a group of use went with TA in 2008 – top crowd, really enjoyed it, but a hard weeks riding.

Having ridden extensively in the Valais in Switzerland (a guide for BikeVerbier) I can say that the Tarantaise is a truly amazing place to ride one's VTT. Totally different riding, varied and stunning views.

Having skied in St Foy I reckon it could be fanatstic and TA's Heidi trail comes through it but no lift access (not an issue if you like riding up but sucks if you don't like being in a car)

Both Sam from BikeVillage and Ash from TA are 2 of the nicest, honest guys I've ever met and the level of guiding, knowledge and hosting is of the scale.

La Varda is definately one of my highlights and I remember a post on here where StevomcD asked 'Where's that trail?' so not knocking the White Room but for location, access and knowledge I'd go for the orignators i.e TA (and Gordy's AWESOME food)or BikeVillage

@ thebike chain

Im sure Stevo does know his way around Les Arcs fairly well by now, but
I don't know which guides 'are calling Stevo for trail tips' as you say. I can tell you that it certainly wasn't anyone from trailAddiction. I'd doubt it was any of the bikevillage guys either, Sam and Co have been locals there since, basically, forever! I know because I was guiding out there myself last summer.

Anyway, I had a little chuckle to myself when I read your post because it was actually a bit of a running joke between the guides 'in the know' in Les Arcs two years ago that there was some random scottish guy on an Orange, apparently over from Ste Foye, who kept on following their groups around and waiting at lifts / near obvious trailheads to try and find the secret/best trails. (Yes, its true that they are nearly all marked on a IGN (Ordnance Survey-style) map, but so are hundreds of other poor/unrideable trails too and there's no 'key' to tell you which ones are passable, and which ones aren't! those who have been on STW for a few years will also recall posts on this very forum from Stevo himself asking previous guests of bikevillage/trailAddiction about how to access some of the 'signature' trails out there….eg "La Varda" (Discovered and first ridden a long time before whiteroom was operating). I thinkt that is what SteveH might have been referring to in his earlier post although as far as I know Stevo did not go as far as booking a trailAddiction holiday and GPS-ing everthying!

Anyway, fair play to Stevo, if Im honest its probably that's what I'd do if I were looking for a quick headstart to get a leg up to know my way around an area with a view to starting my own business. I'm sure that now he offers a top quality service over in Ste Foy and it looks like many people on STW have nothing but praise for him and his operation. I certainly would not want to suggest anything to the contrary!

I just don't think its fair to make those claims, on the other guides who actually did the many years of legwork in the first place a LONG time ago to first 'discover' the area to bikes – the same guys who it took an entire season of riding with them every day to try and show me even half of the full extent of their local trail knowledge. I'd place a bet that Stevo still has some way to go to fully catch up too. Its just such a vast, intricate area….not "knowable" in just one ort two seasons.

Noting that Whiteroom is not actually in Les Arcs, but based about a 30-40 minute drive away depending on which part you go to…its hardly Stevo's local area. I think someone might have been telling a few porkie pies, perhaps?! 😉

On the second point about Stevo being the only fully qualified guide over there, that is completely untrue (Im hoping that he has been misinformed somewhere along the way, otherwise it wouldnt also be plastered on the whiteroom website).

All of the above is probably completely irrelivant to most people reading this. I just couldnt let that one go uncommented. Think I've had too much coffee today or something. 😉

In regards to 'fully qualified', i was under the impression that the french authorities do not acknowledge SMBLA as sufficient qualification to guide.

Stevo is an International Mountain Leader and Iona an 'aspirant' leader AFAIK. Could be wrong though.

I find it amusing that people will become so possesive when it comes to trails and who discovered them etc etc. The fact is in our week with Stevo last year we only rode Les Arc trails a few times. Apart from one particularly great trail that shall remain nameless :wink:, i didn't actually think they were all that. Partly because they were knackered! I know there are far more that aren't though.

My point is that Stevo operates well away from Les Arc (and La Varda isn't one they usually do anyway) and thats the appeal to those that go there.

Perhaps when it comes to Ste Foy trails maybe the white room are the experts……they live there after all.

BTW Freeride addict….Stevo didn't own an Orange 2 years ago.

regardless of any controversy, I'll add a recommendation for the White Room. 4th and 5th trips there coming up this year.

I find it amusing that people will become so possesive when it comes to trails and who discovered them etc etc.

I don't think it as simple as that really though is it? The holiday companies out there are all competing for our business and to do this they are all looking to offer the overall best experience. For me personally the experience is having guides with an unrivalled knowledge of the area – the best trails etc. Copying someones researched, tried and tested set-up just seems a little unfair and lazy IMPO.

I know from meeting the guys on TrailAddiction a huge amount of work and effort went into exploring the area, years before they opened for business. I would be a little hacked off if someone came along and stole all my ideas with just a few weeks of work! I know all is not fair in business but thats just my 2 penneth.

The Tarantaise valley is one of the greatest places to ride and you will enjoy it no doubt with whoever you choose to go with. But DO get a guide who knows the area else you will definitly miss the best trails. As said above if you stick to the marked trails they are heavily overused and not in great condition.

As someone just said, the White Room only dip into Les Arc. When I was there we only spent a day there – probably my least favorite day. The rest was in the St Foy area. We hardly rode any of the marked trails.

What handbag for Alpine Guiding ?

I think The White Room are getting a bit of an unfair slagging here, intentional or not. Like has been said before, they are based in Sainte Foy. That's where we did most of our riding or further over. Think we only did one day in Les Arcs. I know Stevo has done plenty hunting for new trails on his own over the Sainte Foy side. As usual with this place it's turned into a moan/slag off about stuff which hardly anybody (myself included) have all the facts.

But what I would say is both companies and Bike Village have all got good reputations and whoever you go with you'll get some awesome riding/views/food. There, thats it all wrapped up in a neat little happy ending.

someone give me the money and I'll be happy to review both TA and WR on a strictly objective basis. 🙂

"The other guides in the area phone Steve for route advice, i think he knows all the best stuff out of the way…"

Cant recall ever phoning anyone called Steve for route advice? errrr nope cant recall that…

Maybe we should of phoned "Steve" before we went out scouting for and building new trail sections.. that would of saved us days of exploring…

Ah well we will know for future reference.. can I have his number??

'dropping in'

In regards to 'fully qualified', i was under the impression that the french authorities do not acknowledge SMBLA as sufficient qualification to guide.

Nic, as far as I know, you are dead right there. However sadly, having an international Leader Qualification does not qualify you either in the eyes of the French. There's been a lot of discussion over the past year or so that revolved around a lead-guide in morzine getting arrested a few years ago and subsequently let-off the hook, but many people have jumped to conclusions as a result. The main point is that as anyone who has lived in the Alps and in particular the Savoie Region will tell you, is that the locals virtually tend to make up their own rules anyway! Its certainly not as clear-cut as to whats legal and whats not, (or rather what is punishable/arrestable and what isnt!) as it is in the UK -on all counts, not just about guiding.

Put it this way, if you want a job at the MCF (Moniteur Cyclist Francais) in Les Arcs – the only actual officially authorised guiding operation in the region (which in itself is ironic 'cos they mostly do families and kids guiding) you would NOT be qualified to get a bike guiding job there with the qualifiations you mention above.

By the way, I accept that much of what Ive said there is based on my own personal dealings and anecdotes of what I've heard directly from the director of the MCF in Les Arcs. So some of what I have said there might also turn out to be a load of b*llocks too (or out of date). Any Savoie-region french lawyers hanging around STW that could clear this up for us? 😉

LoL @ scruff by the way! I find a nice little radley number works out just fine and looks great with my baggy shorts and freeride jersey. good point though, time to take a chill-pill methinks! 😛

PS My GF told me to say that. I dont really know what radley is. Honest.

But what I would say is both companies and Bike Village have all got good reputations and whoever you go with you'll get some awesome riding/views/food. There, thats it all wrapped up in a neat little happy ending.

Here Here! OK, OK I take it all back!

PS to the guys who've ridden with Stevo in Ste Foy, totally agree with you that for that particular part of the valley, he's probably the main man in terms of trail knowledge. He lives there, after all!

jbsingletrack – Member
"The other guides in the area phone Steve for route advice, i think he knows all the best stuff out of the way…"

Cant recall ever phoning anyone called Steve for route advice? errrr nope cant recall that…

Maybe we should of phoned "Steve" before we went out scouting for and building new trail sections.. that would of saved us days of exploring…

Ah well we will know for future reference.. can I have his number??

I put the call in for you..

Definately some handbags but + 1 for what Hainey says….

Where is the White Room owner anyhow? He is normally on any thread that has the words Les Arcs/Tarantaise/Alps within seconds?

If I was him I'd stay away too. Nothing to gain by getting into a sh*t slinging match.

Nothing to gain by getting into a sh*t slinging match.

Agreed, i think enough has been said.

On another note I am excited about riding in the Tarantaise. Its a great place

+1 for trailAddiction

not suprised he is keeping quiet. What a load of bitches….99% of you have never even met the poor bloke!

As some have pointed out St Foy is not les Arcs!

The moaning seems to have come from one side, some tittylipping guides. Obviously they are precious about the trails they 'own'…

Yes they seem to be worried about a company who provide fully qualifed guides, smaller groups, better food and quieter trails.

But then I only know this from internet rumours… 🙄

Getting away from the handbags – what kind of riding do you want to do?

Mostly lift-assisted, or riding up as well as down? General consensus seems to be that if you want to ride uphill, go to BikeVillage…

I haven't stayed with the White Room, but have been out with TrailAddiction and have booked again for this year. Depending on when you want to go, probably best to decide soon, or maybe just let the vacancies decide it for you!

This thread just confirms my thoughts….that certain members of STW are unbelievable!

To slag off someone like that is well out of order!

Others on here are clearly jealous of the fact that Stevo found a niche that no one-else had and took full advantage. Thats business so get over it!!

IMO Trail Addiction and White Room are catering for very different tastes, why can't some of you see that?

Im out!

I think you need to calm down a little bit!! 🙄

To the original OP – As i think everyone has mentioned, it probably doesn't matter who you go with, you will have a lot of fun. It depends on what sort of riding you are looking for. If its more lift assisted stuff then TrailAddiction sounds like your best bet.

+ another 1 for TrailAddiction. Went with them in 2007 and would like to go again this year.
Fantastic weeks riding, 95% lifts up except the HEIDI backcountry day which did involve a fair bit of pedalling (a fair bit for my lazy lift loving legs anyway)

No idea/don't really care who found the trails etc etc.. but I do know you haven't got a hope in hell of finding most of them with out a good guide.
And after the used and abused trails of the PDS last year it will be nice to get back on the fairly untouched Les Arcs trails again.

The trails in that part of the world are fantastic, so unless the company you go with are complete nincompoops, then you will have a great time whichever company you choose to go with.

I've been with trailAddiction on several occasions and loved every minute, which is why I'm happy to recommend them.

LOL at some of this !

FWIW, I've done 2 weeks with TA – they were without doubt the 2 best weeks riding of my (admittedly not very riding-filled) life. Even sticking to "just" the Les Arcs lift area, in either week I reckon I rode the same route only 2 or 3 times (apart from the short access links) and at least one was by request. There were plenty of trails each time that I didn't see at all on the other visit. (oh, and +1 for the goatshed !)

That said, one of the best days with TA is/was a back-country van day because there is bloody LOADS of stuff up there beyond the lifts, even stuff that's totally accessible by road uplift – Christ knows what you might find if only it was possible to pedal around 😳 . The area is fantastic IMO and plenty big enough for several companies.

I've not been to TWR or BV but have heard both recommended often enough. Me, I'm a ski-lift fatty – if I could get away with it I'd not bring a chain at all. I reckon that puts me out of BV's demographic and maybe TWR too but I imagine both can live with that.

Last time I was there (2yrs I think) there definitely was a pair of guys sniffing around & trying/following groups. I don't know who they were or why they were doing it and don't much care (but then I don't run a guiding business). If those guys are in business in the region, I hope they're doing the decent thing & sharing their own "finds" now.

+1 for trail addiction. Been twice and it was absolutely fantastic both times; only holiday company I've ever felt compelled to make a return visit to. If I was only allowed to one trail again before I died it would be La Varda.

I've been with Trail Addiction, had a great time and couldn't fault the riding or the accommodation. Had a GPS on the whole time, but just for speed/distance really. The main benefit of the guiding is they can tailor the route choices to your ability, which is important for me as I'm shite 🙂

ChunkyMTB,
If you read this thread from the start it's fairly obviously what has started the argument.

Obviously the thebikechain has some sort of axe to grind. It is probably useful to know that The Bike Chain is a sponsor of The White Room. Fair enough, but that puts some of the comments into context. "The other guides in the area phone Steve for route advice, i think he knows all the best stuff out of the way…" seems to start the whole argument followed by "Plus Steve is the only properly qualified guide…" This sounds like blatant trolling to me.

It's only fair that the other local guides will try and defend this kind of comment, which basically discredits them and their operation.

thebikechain should at least use a different username that's not associated with an Edinburgh shop before voicing unfounded and misinformed criticism. It seems particularly misleading when we find out that he is a sponsor of, and as such has a commercial interest in, The White Room.

🙄

Obviously the thebikechain has some sort of axe to grind

Umm, i have no idea what you mean by this… I have no axe at all let alone one to grind. Did i bad mouth anyone? I don't think i did. I have first hand experience of The White Room and chose to have a relationship with them.

I made no secret of being a 'sponsor' of The White Room so please do not infer there is anything untowards going on.

When we were riding one morning on our trip, someone did phone him, this is fact, that's what i stated… This was in no way aiming to create an argument. It was a statement. I have no idea who phoned him – you shouldn't read to much into this. It may have been a new start guide, it may have just been someone who doesn't know St Foy very well. Please don't make out i was criticising any particular company or guide with this comment.

And thanks for calling me a troll. That was pleasant of you.

As for hiding my name, why would i? I am only trying to be transparent, would you rather i hid my name and tried to generate business that way for Steve and Iona. Surely an underhand thing to do non?

unfounded and misinformed criticism

Where?

seems particularly misleading when we find out that he is a sponsor

As i said, it's in my original post… where did i try to mislead anyone?

If i had been with Trail Addiction and had a great time then i would have perhaps had a relationship with them.

As for other guides in the area – i can also recommend Tom Owen (Bike Village maybe…?) He worked in the shop a few times and is a great lad.

That fairer for you?

thebikechain, to bring some calm i think it was that you had said

Steve is the only properly qualified guide

and the other guides phone him for advice.

Just not factually correct thats all.

Moving on….you will have a great time in Les Arcs if you go with TrailAddiction and i am sure a great time in Sainte Foy with White Room, or a great time in Les Arcs / La Plagne with Bike Village.

I see.

Well i apologise publicly for any mis-understanding that may arise from my posting.

No worries, to me it just looked like those comments were provoking an argument based on misinformation. Trolling was an unfair suggestion I admit. But I guess misunderstandings are just the nature of these forums. It's fair promoting someone, just as long as its not by suggesting (incorrectly) the other guides in the area 1) do not know the area as well and 2) aren't qualified.

Anyway, Tom Owen does indeed work for bike village and this brings me back to the original post… Bike Village will require you to pedal alot, but show you some amazing singletrack. trailAddiction will not REQUIRE you to pedal (unless you feel inclined too) and show you some amazing singletrack and I can't comment on The White Room because I have never visited. However, having ridden some of the trails over on that side of the valley I'm sure there will be some amazing singletrack over in St Foy too.