Trail vs Enduro Bikes

My question was: are proper enduro bikes noticeably better at that type of riding?

Yes.

For that type of riding, I’d say without question yes. I posted earlier saying I’ve ridden in the Alps wtth anything less than a 160/150 enduro-style bike, but riding an enduro bike back-to-back with my 140/130 trail bike on the most enduroy/Alpsy local trails I have, my enduro bike is better on those bits. Probably only marginally quicker but it’s much more composed and less frantic feeling – some might say that’s less exciting though.

And:

I’m now on marketplace looking at 2nd hand DH bikes 🙂

Been there, done that. On the right terrain they’re (unsurprisingly) much better than an enduro bike, but I found the use window very narrow. That’s despite being 60mins from Inners and about 3hrs from Ft William. Also admitted defeat – 2014 for me after a thumb-breaking incident at Nevis range.

I’d agree, the window of use for DH bikes is way too narrow to make sense for me as well.

I have a linkage to convert my Bird to 180mm rear travel and I never even bother using it TBH.

160/180 is very versatile though. Done big rides in Scotland/Lakes/Wales and even the Tour of Mont Blanc on it (a 140mm bike might have been better for that though).

Thanks chaps, yes on reflection maybe a DH bike is probably a bit too much of an over reaction and would end up being an expensive shed space filler. Cheers

My question was: are proper enduro bikes noticeably better at that type of riding?

As I said before, what is ‘noticeably better’ to you? Feeling safer, going faster, doing bigger jumps, etc?

Personally, I would say no, they arnt noticeably better than a really good trail bike. But clearly I’m in the minority with my views.

As I said before, what is ‘noticeably better’ to you? Feeling safer, going faster, doing bigger jumps, etc?

OK be very specific then… if i were to take my 140/150 Jeht (150 Pike Ultimates, MM 2.4 F Tyre, 200mm 4pot brakes) down Race Track / 50 Hits / Turns In the Ferns at Dyfi would i notice any material difference in speed / stability / reduced chatter if i was on something like a Trek Slash?

would i notice any material difference in speed / stability / reduced chatter if i was on something like a Trek Slash?

I think you would notice an improvement, primarily by virtue of the fork on the slash being beefier as well as longer travel, with the extra travel on the rear allowing you to run things a bit softer.

The pike on your cotic is a fair bit flexier than something like a fox 38/zeb.and I suspect the slash frame would be overall stiffer/less flexy than the cotic.

You could probably get 80% of the improvement by putting the same fork (adjusted for an appropriate amount of travel) on your cotic

If you want an Enduro / longer travel bike, and have the cash, then, why not? As someone else pointed out though, increasing the travel by 10mm or so will likely result in quite a lot of overlap between the current bike and a new bike.

Other option would be to invest in some new / second set of forks/wheels/tyres. A Lyric or a Zeb for instance. Or coil fork and shock. Then beefier wheels/DH/Double-down casing 2.5/2.6 rubber. And just swap those onto the bike when you’re going to be visiting Bike Parks. It’d be a faff, and depends how often you’d need to do it; if it was monthly, probably not worthwhile, if it was twice a year, it might be …

It’s easy to underestimate how incredibly sensitive humans can be to super subtle changes, even when we’re not that great at doing whatever we’re doing!

That point about losing a chunk of travel to sag and another chunk to bottom out resistance makes it easier to understand how adding a small amount of travel can make quite a difference.

Also, more damped tyres (both casing and compound) really calm a bike down.

And stiffer forks bind less under hard hits, so eat rock gardens better and feel better when braking hard on the steeps – but do they find as much grip in flat natural corners where the bike is tipped over and you need flex?

I’m currently in the Alps and today I’ve been riding a 170/170 Radon Swoop because my 160/150 Stumpjumper Evo is in the bike shop.

The Swoop has similar geometry to my Stumpjumper, just more travel. Similar reach, similar head angle.

It’s running a 38 vs a 36 fork.

I’ve had fun riding the Swoop, but I’m very happy to be getting my Stumpjumper back tomorrow, and I’ll be more confident riding it.

So I’m not convinced that full Enduro is that much of a benefit after all?

My theory is that there’s a bit of an MTB travel bell curve that runs alongside rider’s ages.

They start off only being able to afford a HT, then maybe pick up a used trail bike, careers progress, disposable grows and mates start tooling up (where the OP is at currently?) and thus travel numbers go up. Then kids/mortgage/life happens and if you manage to stick with it at all you’ll want something a bit more practical for all rounder, local trails and the odd trip to Wales/Scotland and the travel figures go down again… Then you die.

Get the big bike while you’re in a position to make use of such a toy just remember you’ll be chopping it in once you go and get someone knocked up 😉

Sorry, no idea why i wrote Pikes, my Jeht has 150 Lyrics. Duh.

Cookeaa – appreciate the sentiment but i’m 53 🙂

I’m 52 and just bought my most Enduro-est bike ever. Can’t wait, age is irrelevant!

Maybe more of a ‘W’ then?

A bit of a travel uptick before you finally cark it.

Like most people I’ve gone up, down, back up and down a bit on the travel ladder.

I’ve done Dyfi on an Aether with 150/130 and then on my Edit with 170/170 both on 27.5 wheels/coil shock and suprise suprise its smoother, possibly faster but no more fun.

I’m also 53 and the best (most confident) year of riding I’ve ever had was when I bought the Aether for my 50th. Bigger jumps, bigger drops, steeper tech, etc.

So I don’t think there’s any magic involved here, the biggest change for me was moving from a size small Edit V1 to a size medium Aether, rather than adding more travel. In fact I’ve just reduced the fork back to 160 and the Edit feels more confidence.

I think there are so many factors at play, its hard to pin it onto just one thing.

If you gel with a bike can be a big factor. If the sizing works for you. The geometry is right. Then add travel. Throw in weight. Components etc etc.

I ran a Norco Optic for a few years and loved it (140F 125R). Rode everything on it. XC loops, bike parks, The Megavalanche. I wasnt as quick as my friends, but i enjoyed the challenge of doing my best keeping up. I was a strong supporter of less is more.

One particular ride on a rough track my riding buddies disappeared off into the distance. It was at that point i decided that short travel was no longer for me. I went from the Optic to a Vitus Sommet (170F 162R). It was a beast of a bike that allowed me to plough a lot harder than previously. This closed the gap between my friends.

Then at the start of this year i treated myself to a Raaw Madonna V3 (170F 160R). I am now faster on certain tracks than my friends. Is it the coil shock? The shorter reach? The longer rear end? Has my riding improved…. who knows, but what is certain is a ruddy love riding it.

Yes its weighs a ton. Yes its not the right tool for every trail ( I cruised along cycle paths on the seafront the other day, it was a chilled bimble). But when i am up to speed on it, its bloody amazing, the rougher the better!

I compliment the big bike with a Specialized Chisel XC hardtail, so can go big or go small. (i am thinking of replacing it with the new Chisel FS, just for a bit of comfort).

So ultimately… if you want more travel, go for it. The downsides are much smaller these days, compared to days of old when big travel was horrible to pedal. Just be aware that in certain circumstances, it might not be as fun as a ‘smaller’ bike.

Sorry, no idea why i wrote Pikes, my Jeht has 150 Lyrics. Duh.

less of a difference in that case then, but probably noticeable, just a lot less so.

I went from a carbon enduro bike with 160mm travel (fox 36) front and rear, to a carbon “trail” (or maybe some might call it all mountain) bike with 160mm front travel (with exactly the same forks – I moved them from the enduro bike to the trail bike) ,and 145mm rear travel, but otherwise similiar geo , tyres, brakes etc. There isnt much difference between them ,which is as you’d expect, given that the only real difference is 15mm more travel on the rear. The enduro bike is slightly more composed on very rough stuff due to the extra 15mm travel on the rear, but it is only slight.

You’ve got potentially more of a difference due to moving from steel frame to carbon (assuming carbon slash) – I think you’re going to have to go for a test ride to find out whether its going to be worth it to you.

just get the carbon 9.7 slash, its a great bike. mine is such an upgrade to my XTR/fox36 factory spec’d orbea 150/140.

it’d be another level again with a 38mm stanchion. zebs are cheap on merlin..