I rode Cafall at Cwmcarn yesterday. Probably done that first climb 7 or 8 times since it opened. Takes me about the same time to get to the top at it done to climb Whytes at Afan. I reckon Cafel is harder – certainly aerobically.

Got me thinking, what is the hardest single climb in a trail centre. Not ridden them all but the one to the mast at Glentress goes on a while from memory.

What do we think then? It’s pretty subjective – I find changes in gradient do not play well with my asthma. I’d much rather be grunting up something for a long time at a constant gradient (which is what most of Whytes feels like) than having to put in big efforts to sprint up the steeper parts.

Anyway.. over to you

That one above from you at Cwmcarn, done it once and never been back…. It’s a horrible horrible climb.

I find Whytes harder than the Wall or Penhydd.

I hated the whole Cafall train first time I rode it when it was about a week old. Muddy slog and the downs didn’t seem worth the endless climbing. More I ride it tho, more I like it. The descents are brilliant – everyone a bit different.

Interesting – or not – Whytes is 244m of climbing, Cafall 222mm. Distance wise they are similar but Cafall just feels harder and longer.

The wall is a brilliant climb. Ever since the ‘elevator’ went in, I actually quite enjoy it apart from the one very steep fireroad slog.

I’m the opposite to you – i think the variation in climbs is more interesting – a quick nip here, slow down tehre, bit of trialzzz skilzzz needed at certain points.
Beats a dull fireroad climb any day.

I know this didn’t answer your question did it..

erm, not sure

DrP

The most technical trail centre climb and therefore hardest to do clean that I have done is the Lactic Ladder at Golspie. It’s also fairly physically demanding being quite long by the time you get to the monument.

Never ridden that. Interesting twist tho as th other climb at Cwmcarn on the Twrch trail is also hard to clean without a dab. There’s nothing on Cafall to stop you racing up it other than lungs and legs!

Oh and DrP – I’m not a fan of fireroad climbs at all. If every climb was like the elevator on the Wall, I’d be a happy man. It does need some upmty at various parts but just seems to give up its metres more easily… like i say it’s always going to be totally subjective…

Ever since the ‘elevator’ went in

the what ?

Golspie the black trail

@weeksy – first singletrack climb after you cross the river. Back in the day you had to slog up the fireroad. The elevator basically cuts out a few fire-road swtichbacks…

Hardest I’ve tried is probably some of the sections on The Raven at Brechfa, it’s sort-of fireroad, but I’d be amazed to see the vehicle that could make it – it’s got deep ruts eroded into it and it snakes the whole way whilst being, on the face of it at least – vertical.

I don’t mind fireroad climbs, they’ll always been a means to an end to me and I’m usually in a group, if we can spin up 3-4 abreast having a chat, that suits me fine.

Hardest trail centre climb that I’ve done is the Black climb/Weird Woods at Stainburn. Steep and techy, a real challenge to get up without dabbing.

Alex – Member

@weeksy – first singletrack climb after you cross the river. Back in the day you had to slog up the fireroad. The elevator basically cuts out a few fire-road swtichbacks…

You now cross at the bridge then ? I don’t have to make the 2-3 mile loop along and then back on the flat ? I took the bridge once a few years back but i don’t think then it was strictly allowed.

I found the climb at the new section at the marin quite tough short but its quite a long way into the loop if you start from the Llanrwst side. Some bloody tight switch backs early on, narrow, muddy and overgrown when I did it, some of the 29ers riders were complaining it was too tight (oh how the designer must have giggled 😉 ) and just pushed straight up the middle of the section.

+1 For the new section on the Marin,cracking little climb!

I can’t believe no one has said one of the climbs on Follow the Dog at Cannock 😆

Great question and I’m struggling to think of an answer. Trail centres, by their very nature of being designed to be ridden, have easy climbs compared to many local “natural” climbs near me that I always struggle to clean.

The one that I got little joy out of and little reward was at Llandegla, but *not* the initial fireroad climb which I thought was quite a pleasant way to warm up. Nope, I’m talking about the second half of the (red?) trail which seems to be an endless meander of mostly up and little down. All the fun has been had and it just feels like a tedious slog back to the start. It’s a shame I feel this way, because compared to other trail centres it is at least moderately interesting climbing. Must go back and see if I feel different now….

I’ll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig……

Long and steep in part, techy in others…..

But the reward is excellent!

Cafall climb is great – tough in parts but quite rollercoaster-y

They’ve made it a lot more interesting than a straight fireroad climb and I was able to clear it with low levels of fitness (wasn’t easy tho)

Simon has it in my opinion. Stainburn black climb is a bugger

Interesting thread, I love a tough technical climb. Spent a fair ammount of time at Cwmcarn, I love the climbs there. Some nice technical bits to keep things exciting. Would lobe to hear of more trails with similar climbs

not the toughest but I find the first half of the Inners XC loop a really good climb, pretty long but just the right gradient with little bits of technical interest to keep you going
Its been a while but I do recall the first climb at Cwm Carn just feeling painful

And as for fireroad, the fireroad start at Llandegla, its not steep or difficult to get up but boy is it boring and really lets the place down, they really should look at putting something more interesting into that section rather than another BMX track type jumpy section further along

I hated the Twrch trail climb at Cwmcarn, a slog, and technical without being fun, it’s a job to maintain momentum, rooty, rocky, stop start, just not fun at all.

I don’t mind a big climb, even fire road slogs and loose ones, but that one on the Twrch I’m keen on returning to.

Golspie’s a weird mix because Lactic Ladder is hard, and physical… And the last climb up to the top is usually grim too. But the rest of the climb is pretty charming and you get up surprisingly easy, considering you start at sea level and end up at 400 metres.

Kirroughtree black, from the road up to the start of Talnotry Hill, aaaargh. It’s not so much massively hard as just soul destroying, I’m sure I could ride it all in one go but I never will, I usually get halfway up the first bit and just go, **** it, I hate this.

+1 for golspie, although i always seem to struggle at innerleithen red as well

@core

The great thing about Cwmcarn is that you can cheat a bit, skip some the climbs (in favour of fire road or actual road) without missing any downs. Even on Cafal.

+1 for Golspie can’t think of a more technical section I’ve ridden which is also part of such a long climb overall. Can only deal with lactic ladder if have a decent breather right before and right after (cheat).

The climb at CyB with the steep-ish slog and then a steppy rock bit is quite tricky, think I have only cleaned it once when it was bone dry.

I’d agree with the mentions of Brechfa Raven & Stainburn too.

Sometimes I prefer the techy climbs to keep things interesting, and sometimes I prefer the fireroad slogs, so I can have a chat and look around. I used to like Whites climb, but its lost some of its charm since being felled and some of the steep bits have also been removed.

Not a trail centre, but for a well known ride, the rocky steep and narrow climb 2/3rds of the way round Howies Dyfi enduro in Mach is tough as you like! I’m always pushing up that!

Cwmcarns my local. Both Twrch and Cafall are nasty climbs. Steep techy and go on and on. The rest of south wales is tame by comparision!

You’ve just got to MTFU – the downs are worth it.

Nant yr Arian fireroad climb deserves the prize for most tedious..

Ah yes Nant-yr-arians “leg burner”. 30 minutes of tedium.

I’ll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig…

seconded, on a hot day (a rare thing fo’shure) it’s a killer

don’t mind Whytes, I know it well enough to pace it, cwmcarn’s not “that” bad either,

Marin has some long sloggy fireroads that seem to go on forever!

The 2 that stand out for me are Cafall at Cwmcarn & the road/fireroad climb towards the end of the Beast at Coedy Brenin. In both cases the descents were definitely worth the pain.

handybendyhendo – Member
I’ll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig……

Thirded, the only trail centre climb Ive had to walk up. It was murder.

Infact, until Talnotry I was thinking the whole of the black was a huge waste of a lie in. From there down more than made up for the nadgery tedium that preceeded it.

Thirded, the only trail centre climb Ive had to walk up. It was murder.

Really? Surprised so many hate that one. Heartbreak Hill isn’t pleasant but I would do it all day compared to dragging myself up the Tower Climb at GT. [STW brag]I even middle-ringed it once[/STW brag] which admittedly did hurt quite a lot.

Heartbreak Hill isn’t my favourite either but the reward is excellent :D.
I can still get up it at the wrong side of fifty…….

In my defence I’ve only ridden it once 😳

Will go back one day, but we tend to stay further over towards Dumfries these days so I’ve not been back to Kirri after the first time.

Don’t worry, we’ll all be riding e-bikes before long.

Don’t find any of the South Wales trail centre climbs ‘hard,’ not in the ‘I want to cry, why am I doing this, loosing traction again, fallen off, oh its too steep to get going again, going to push’ kind of way, they are designed to be ridden after all.

Natural climbs are way way worse.

Natural climbs are way way worse.

probably, but you did read the thread title though, right?