Too lazy to build

^^^^ knowing some of the local Scottish posters I’d disagree, we largely ride natural trails in the west of Scotland where many of us do some regular pruning, tidying, drainage works etc to maintain them. We also try to avoid the soggy sensitive bits in wet and poor weather, hence acting sustainably and responsibly. That really just ties in with The Scottish Outdoor Access Code..

Meh. Does it really matter? Something i’ve read lots of times along the lines of “don’t get upset if others don’t hold the same beliefs in such high regard, they won’t”.

People who want to dig will, people who don’t want to dig, won’t.

If you don’t want to dig, fine, just say, no need for excuses including rights, busy, legality, paying etc etc. If you feel morally obliged to help out, you will.

I’m sure everyone deep down would agree the morally right thing to do is contribute if and when they can, can be as simple as litter picking or clearing the branches walkers have put across.

I went though the whole being a trail nazi thing, set of dirt jumps, were my babies, whenever i was not there was getting wound up they were getting littered and trashed, being a bit arsey to people who came and did not want to contribute, ripped the fun out of it. Take a far more relaxed approach now.

The one that still gets my goat, if you can contribute one little thing, that’s to not ride the boggy trails, particularly ones which when dry are really good. You’re simply destroying them for when it dries up.

“The one that still gets my goat, if you can contribute one little thing, that’s to not ride the boggy trails, particularly ones which when dry are really good. You’re simply destroying them for when it dries up.”

Most sensible thing posted so far

Yes that above about respecting trails

I dont dig but I ride natural so no need.

The problem with MTB is that it falls down the gap between CTC style bridleway letter-writing / hand-wringing midle class angst and the dirt jump “no dig – no ride” suft-spot ethos.

Maintaining a dirt jump spot / mini DH trail can be a lot of work – and it can be ruined in any number of ways – normally outside of the control of the riders. I think the golden age of these kind of spots is on the wane – the teens and twenty-somethings who used to seemingly live in these spots seem to have better things to do nowadays.

So were left in the middle ground – you want to ride some distance on natural singletrack, but trail centres have led you to expect a berm on every corner and a “feature” every 200 yards. Now clearly this isn’t going to be viable – you’re pretty lucky if the nettles / brambles even get strimmed. In the ideal world everyone would adopt a section of trail and 2-3 times a year take the saw and shovel and do a bit of sensitive tidying all along the route rather than spending a weekend building a set of doubles on a footpath.

But I know local clubs and mtb groups where next to nobody does any trail work

Dan, quite agree. You’ll know that at Mugdock, GMBC do regular trail maintainance work, in close liaison with the Park Rangers. The other main club has also helped out with these sessions. Unfortunately there are also many selfish/inconsiderate riders who cause unnecessary trail damage and erosion by then riding unsustainable sections in the wrong weather conditions.

None of these trails are ‘illegal’ AFAIK, they are in public land in Scotland

Come to think of it I never seen Dan on any of these maintainence days 😉
Also cant help thinking its a wee dig (no pun intended) at us that have been riding Aberfoyle recently 😀 , I would be more than happy to help out at a dig with Dan if I had the time but unfortunately we dont all get weeks off at this time of year, I regularly carry a small saw in my backpack, more so when I ride at mugdock which in last couple of years its not as often as previous years but still prune back some trails when needed.Your work is greatly appreciated though Dan 😉

Junkyard – lazarus
I dont dig but I ride natural so no need.

Bridleways, public footpaths and the like aside, a lot of so called “natural” trails are actually dug by people. Much is subtle and you wouldn’t realise that there’s been some scrub clearance work, strategically placed debris from branches and bushes to block off eroding lines, berms that you wouldn’t realise are berms, drainage, etc.

Depending on location of course. Some areas existing paths are just ridden a lot and bed into a trail but still people clear them at times.

Round my way, there are places like Tunnel Hill and surrounding MoD lands and all the trails there have been created with much effort from volunteers. Many as part of Gorrick & Brass Monkey races. Yet people think they are just natural and have been worn in by people riding them. Been riding some today which were created a month or so back. Before there was nothing there at all, but the magic pixies cleared lines through and now it’s a trail but still looks like it’s some natural path.

I ride with some of these guys and they do it in their spare time and know what they’re doing whereas I would not. They might appreciate volunteers but don’t ask for them and no one says “no dig no ride” or expect people to dig.

iainc – Member
None of these trails are ‘illegal’ AFAIK, they are in public land in Scotland

I’m not certain on land ownership in Scotland but as I understood it, though the land is public access that doesn’t make it public owned. Maybe some is, but I was under the impression pretty much every scrap of land in the whole of the UK is effectively privately owned. More so in Scotland, owned by lord this or that (or Scottish equivalent). Even Crown land in England is a private ownership entity effectively run on behalf of the government raising funds to the treasury, and then the Queen has a right to claim the lands back if she wanted. Common lands are generally privately owned or are shared ownership by a local group or council.

Even if you can say “we” own a bit of land because it’s in council or state ownership, it’s still not legal for anyone to go dig up the land or build on it.

What the “public” attribute gives you is access rights. Different thing.

^^^^

What the “public” attribute gives you is access rights.

. Yes, thats what i meant by ‘public land’ and why I never mentioned ownership. For the trails I and some others were talking about its centred around pruning, maintaining and drainage, plus sustainable and responsible use, in which case everyone is a winner, riders, walkers, landowners 🙂

a lot of so called “natural” trails are actually dug by people.

Not where i ride . I am not being arsey and I do appreciate the efforts of those who do and I have ridden some of their trails at Cannock for example.

As already said, there’s an assumption going on here that we all ride dirt jumps.

If you ride any trail with a man made jump in it – it doesn’t have to be a dirt jump trail – and you damage the landing, you should get off immediately to try to sort it as it can potentially bring other riders off.

There’s a lot of very very selfish arrogant people in this thread, I was trying to put a finger on why I prefer hanging round with kayakers than MTBers these days and I’ve just realized it’s because in comparison to kayakers – MTB seems to be dominated by more loner arrogant types than kayaking (which tends to revolve around clubs).

^^^^^cry me a river 😆