So not everyone is as committed as you to digging, big whoop, what do you want a medal?

I’ve done my fair share of building and repairing trails in the past, I have done a little bit on my local trails in the last year but TBH I’m in the same kids/work/having a life boat as many others…

And sorry but sanctimonious trail boss types are generally the best way to kill any riding spot, it’s not just about the trails.
I don’t really see why people have to pay homage to some arse with a shovel because he chooses to hide from his missus in the woods all weekend…

If I found any “sweet booter” on a public right of way, then sorry guys, I’m gonna probably make sure it’s destroyed. We have to share them with all the other legitimate users and I don’t want to get a bad reputation just because you don’t have the skill to get air off natural obstacles. If you can’t cope with the trails being natural then keep to your trail centres.

The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint ‘bridleways’ are of no concern. He’s actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions.

I don’t do gardening. But if there is any digging needed round the Didcot area then point me in the right direction.

And trailbuilding is not all about jumps, as lots of you point out, a wee bit of drainage work can make a trail a really good trail.

Ah, “your trail” mentioned a few times here. Been a discussion about this today over on FB.

So a question you can ask is what makes it your property if you built it illegally in the first place?

And if you build it where the public ride (still doesn’t make it legal to build), fair play to the effort involved but you can’t expect it to just be your property, or insist people contribute, or lay down rules like “no videos on pinkbike, no Strava” after building it in a very busy location 😉

Not saying people shouldn’t put something back into it and yes I wish I did do more, but in most cases outside of trail centres and official builds it’s asking people to do something illegal to add to the illegally built trail anyway. Though obviously it’s crazy that building may be illegal but riding it may not be.

and this thread has confirmed his suspicions

I hope I’m not included in his suspicions!

But I know local clubs and mtb groups where next to nobody does any trail work

Dan, quite agree. You’ll know that at Mugdock, GMBC do regular trail maintainance work, in close liaison with the Park Rangers. The other main club has also helped out with these sessions. Unfortunately there are also many selfish/inconsiderate riders who cause unnecessary trail damage and erosion by then riding unsustainable sections in the wrong weather conditions.

None of these trails are ‘illegal’ AFAIK, they are in public land in Scotland

“The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint ‘bridleways’ are of no concern. He’s actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions. “

I’m sorry but i’m really going to have to take issue with that statement.

I’ve been riding bikes off road for 30 years plus as have a few of my mates. For years and years we just got on with our thing riding around on bridleways and through private woods that allowed us access. Over the last 10 years or so I’ve seen a proliferation in trail building around the local woods that usually preceeds the woods becoming full of people pushing bikes uphill, litter, confrontation with other users of the woods and inevitably restricted access.

Just because some of you lot can’t ride a bike without some kind of earth bank or wooden structure to launch your gnar off means I’m selfish if I don’t join you? The woods were around a long time before your purple shorts and they will be there long after you’ve gone.

The odd bit of cutback and moving logs is fine and I’m happy to help but you can f’off with your shovels thanks.

Throwing this one out there for a kick 😀 … remember Supernova? Which is selfish, riding it without digging or digging a kick ass gap in a well established busy trail used by all abilities and expecting everyone to just deal with it?

I’m on the fence a bit here as I see all sides and appreciated the gap and wanted to ride it myself, but also felt it seemed a bit selfish to just stick it where it was. And then would it be right for someone to fill the gap in because they don’t like it? Is that selfish?

Just stirring things 😈

“The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint ‘bridleways’ are of no concern. He’s actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions. “

I’m sorry but i’m really going to have to take issue with that statement.

I’ve been riding bikes off road for 30 years plus as have a few of my mates. For years and years we just got on with our thing riding around on bridleways and through private woods that allowed us access. Over the last 10 years or so I’ve seen a proliferation in trail building around the local woods that usually preceeds the woods becoming full of people pushing bikes uphill, litter, confrontation with other users of the woods and inevitably restricted access.

Just because some of you lot can’t ride a bike without some kind of earth bank or wooden structure to launch your gnar off means I’m selfish if I don’t join you? The woods were around a long time before your purple shorts and they will be there long after you’ve gone.

The odd bit of cutback and moving logs is fine and I’m happy to help but you can f’off with your shovels thanks.

I don’t build jumps, read my last post. So there are no boggy sections where you ride? I’ll need to come and ride there. Please feel free to add your nonsensical prejudices about enduro colours etc, makes you really cool mate.

Oh, and as for litter, XC racers and roadies are by far the worst for this, with their bloody gel packets and burst tubes.

I’m not selfish, I’m the opposite. I care about all the users of the trail. What is a nice jump for one person is a death trap to another rider.

Well I’m with Winston on this now. I too have been riding since well before trail building was around & if you want to break you back fannying around to give yourself something more, well crack on! But If I come across it & ride it don’t expect me to ‘pop down’ a rebuild it. Put it where I can’t find it or find somewhere private to do it.

So there are no boggy sections where you ride?

What?? I ride the Dales & North York Moors! Where shall I start the drainage?

Are you nuts?

If there’s a boggy section I ride through it. Are you riding a road bike or something?

Not saying people shouldn’t put something back into it and yes I wish I did do more, but in most cases outside of trail centres and official builds it’s asking people to do something illegal to add to the illegally built trail anyway. Though obviously it’s crazy that building may be illegal but riding it may not be.

Why is it crazy? I’m not talking about building kickers, booters, doubles etc, but drainage and sustaining the trail are not ‘crazy’.

You lot will never, ever get your access issues changed if you sit on your hands and do bugger all. But that’s another argument altogether!.

esselgruntfuttock – Member

I too have been riding since well before trail building was around

Raised eyebrow.

Maybe fair enough Northwind, but in 1990 I cant recall any trailbuilding where I was riding.

They must have just appeared, did you see Paul Daniels and Debbie Magee round every corner?

What is a nice jump for one person is a death trap to another rider.

Proving you can’t read, again.

Why is it crazy? I’m it talking about building kickers, booters, doubles etc, but drainage and sustaining the trail are not ‘crazy’.

You lot will never, ever get your access issues changed if you sit on your hands and do bugger all. But that’s another argument altogether!.

I’m with you with the drainage stuff and subtle maintenance. There are some great trails that don’t have obvious big features, have much work on them and yet people think they’re just natural trails. If trails in busy public areas were more of this we’d have less of the access issues anyway. It would still be illegal for me to even do drainage work if it’s an illegal build anyway. There are enough issues already in places I ride with locals and rangers threatening to get the police in because some badgers have been disturbed etc. I don’t want to get a shovel out and then find an angry owner pointing a gun at me.

As for the big jumps build, I’m not knocking them either, but I do have a concern about the level of activity at the moment in busy places used by all abilities, illegally built and the whole thing is going to reach breaking point, likely only on the negative side when it comes to access.

Enough of the “you lot”. We’re all on the same side. We ride bikes.

I don’t build trails but do spend the time now an then to remove fallen tress from the paths that make up my local rides
Does not take much time to drive and walk a bit with an axe/saw to clear things a bits

I don’t want to get a shovel out and then find an angry owner pointing a gun at me.

I agree with lots of your post, and orangeboy too, but in reality how often does this ^^^ happen? About as often as the much vaunted ‘suing’ of riders.

Edit – you lot was meant in terms of the archaic access laws in England and Wales, not people who don’t build trails mate.

orangeboy – Member
I don’t build trails but do spend the time now an then to remove fallen tress from the paths that make up my local rides

Likewise, though I don’t carry a saw etc, but if it’s something I can clear by hand or with help, I’ll do it. Ditto with litter, though sometimes it just pisses me off so much I feel why should I clear up after others. On that point, jumps spots in some places where kids do the digging, litter everywhere from the kids doing the digging 😥

Edit – you lot was meant in terms of the archaic access laws in England and Wales, not people who don’t build trails mate.

Fair point 🙂

Who’s selfish now?

I’m not disagreeing with you, pisses me off the amount of red bull style cans that are left at local jump spots, but at least they have the excuse of youth and ignorance, go and follow a sportive, see how many middle agers leave shite after them.

They must have just appeared,

When did they ‘just appear’ then?
It actually makes no difference to me when they appeared. I don’t use them so don’t feel any urge/need/want or otherwise to build or maintain trails. I ride what’s there & enjoy it, simple. The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn’t like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

(NOT that I want to see B/Ways & ROW become impassable I might add, but that’s what local authorities & my taxes are for)

When did they ‘just appear’ then?
It actually makes no difference to me when they appeared. I don’t use them so don’t feel any urge/need/want or otherwise to build or maintain trails. I ride what’s there & enjoy it, simple. The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn’t like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

(NOT that I want to see B/Ways & ROW become impassable I might add, but that’s what local authorities & my taxes are for)

Ah, the taxes argument. Do you shout this at commuters too?. As I said earlier, your trail structure is pretty irrelevant to the discussion, do catch up. I hope England and Wales eventually get some decent access, but attitudes like will probably stop it. I’m guessing you’re over 50?.

tbh I like th look of the silky boy saw..

I’ve had a few close incidents of broken branches that you only see when they’re about to impale you…..

I hope England and Wales eventually get some decent access, but attitudes like will probably stop it. I’m guessing you’re over 50?.

The fact that I am over 50 & you actually knew, astounds me. How did you know that?
I’m guessing you’re Scottish.

I don’t really know what your’e getting at here. Do you expect very offroad cyclist to put in some work on the trails/bridleways/rights of way that they use? Please enlighten me, a long term offroad rights of way user, what you’d like ME to do.

You’ve wallpapered over your ridiculous taxes argument. If you think you have absolutely nothing to do, and are happy to keep taking, taking, and taking some more, then fair do’s, enjoy your riding. I’m out, happy new year, and keep taking. 🙄

esselgruntfuttock- Member

The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn’t like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

You do realise that it’s often wear and erosion that causes sanitation?

Just to point out, I never wrote that! 😀

You’ve wallpapered over your ridiculous taxes argument. If you think you have absolutely nothing to do, and are happy to keep taking, taking, and taking some more, then fair do’s, enjoy your riding. I’m out, happy new year, and keep taking.

I still don’t know what you expect from your everyday user of ROW in England & I only mentioned taxes because that’s where ROW maintenance in England is funded from IE local authority (except when private landowners fund maintenance for their own interest, IE shooting & personal access)
& ‘taking, taking, and taking some more’ What do you want people to do on England? I’m talking bridleways & other ROW open to cyclists, do you expect me to start drainage work on a clarty track used by farmers every day? (as an example)? Honestly, give me an idea of what you’d expect of the average English offroad rider who doesn’t use purpose built venues.

Big fat slow ninja edit

boggy and poorly drained bits ftw. they’ll erode and make it more interesting. eventually the loggers will come along, f*** it up beyond all recognition anyway, and eventually put gravel down to make it passable again. then it’ll bed in and erode again.

trees down? leave them. walkers and bikers will make a new path round it. only in exceptional circumstances have i had to maybe snap a branch off to get over/under/past a fallen tree on a hillside. park rangers will eventually chop it up or drag it to one side.

plenty of fallen trees that have eventually “evolved” in to the trail.

most standing water I’ve seen is the “manicured” man-made trails. always a puddle before every single roller, jump, double. do they put them there on purpose?

not lazy, just tend not to ride purpose built or illegal/cheeky trails. maps ftw.

Can someone sort that big wheel sucking puddle out under the bridge on New Rd tomorrow morning please.I’m after a Strava PB in the afternoon.Cheers.

Can someone sort that big wheel sucking puddle out under the bridge on New Rd tomorrow morning please.I’m after a Strava PB in the afternoon.Cheers.

I’m on it Nick, always carry a big **** off pump in me Dakine just for these occasions.

You don’t have to know how to build trails to help out maintaining them. It’s just basic courtesy to do things like pat down the lip of a landing if you’ve come up short etc.

To think your above doing this is downright rude and arrogant.

Also, I had to laugh at the bloke saying he doesn’t ride smooth trails because he has a decent enduro bike.

smooth trails are like bald fannies..

they’re for little kids and perverts

It’s just basic courtesy to do things like pat down the lip of a landing if you’ve come up short etc.

When should one do this? Immediately after the event, later that day?

If one is riding with friends does one wait for their friends to jump or fix it first so they have a perfect jump to use too?

As already said, there’s an assumption going on here that we all ride dirt jumps.