Time to throw the towel in

I’ve also had a recent run of things hurting/aching/no longer working which was starting to get me down.  I stopped running in the middle of the year, but for the 12 months leading up to that I had only been trotting along rather than running as things were aching.  Then about 8 weeks ago I started getting a severe knee pain when biking – goes without saying that biking is a big thing for me, so to give that up would take a lot, but I had started to consider it.

The doc referred me to a physio for the knee, they’ve given me a few exercises, but I’m no overly optimistic that they’re going to fix things.  I’d also started doing stretches and exercises from videos online but wasn’t convinced I was doing them properly.

2 weeks ago I found a local pilates class and have now been to 2 sessions.  After the 1st I was feeling much much better – it seemed to loosen a lot of muscles that I didn’t even realise were tense/tight, it also worked a lot of muscles that had been neglected for a long time.  One happy side effect is that the shoulder I knackered when I broke my neck 8 years ago is now feeling the best it has in all that time, and that wasn’t even something I’d considered trying to fix :-)

As I say, I’m only 2 weeks in, but I’ll def keep it up as it seems to be helping.

I recommend the world’s most popular exercise; Going for a walk. Ideally with a dog. Walking is the best form of exercise and greatly helped me when I was off the bike with COVID for two years. You don’t need goals, other than time spent moving. You don’t need kit (decent shoes excepted), you don’t need a shower. You just walk. Strava is optional, but I record mine on my watch for no reason!

Cycling is not load bearing if setup is correct. It is cardiovascular. Running is the exercise one used to do before injury, too much load. Just. Walk.

If you have had back pain for longer than 3 months, then your body could be over sensitive to pain. I have been in this situation and my GP referred me to a pain clinic where I had therapy which greatly improved what I could do.

https://www.tamethebeast.org/

I also bought this:

Explain Pain Second Edition

Sounds illogical but it really helped. Pm if you want to chat.

I can sympathise, i definitely take 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards.

20 year old me was serving in the army, playing rugby professionally and able to run a marathon but also hold my own in any gym.

48 year old me, has broken over 20 bones, metal pins in shoulder and jaw, reconstructed knee, and after a particularly  rough period of COVID a few years ago, i am now Type 2 diabetic.

BUT i enjoy exercise, it is my social life cycling or hiking with friends, but i also enjoy the hours on the turbo and weight training in the garage, as i feel better for it, and it is easy to track progress.

My motto is “training hard to be thoroughly mediocre”!

You have to look at this way, you admit eating far too much sugar, and having all these aches and pains, and this is with trying to exercise and look after yourself, think what it will be like if you do nothing but surf the sofa?

I would:

– Have that doctors appointment and make sure there is no significant underlying health condition

– Slowly come back to exercise, and try to avoid any sort of impact, so running/ football etc, start with non-impact cardio, gentle bike rides and walks, and body-weight only strength training/ yoga. Just build up gradually.

I can sympathise with the yoga, i am as flexible as a house-brick and when i first started the sessions on Wahoo SYSTM with the lovely Abby, at first i found it harder than lifting heavy weights as i was using muscles i had not for a long time, but now find i quite relaxing..

Ebike, one of the lightweight orbeas or the new Whtye, or even a lower power levo SL. Not all the weight associated with the full fats. Takes the strain off your knees when pedalling and still gets you out and about.

Your shooting leg pains sound like a form of sciatica, especially given you had/have a back injury. Not a doctor/physio, etc, but sounds very similar to issues I had a few years back as a result of a big off that resulted in dislocated shoulder and some shoulder/arm fractures. The sciatica got to the point that i could only walk a few hundred metres without having to stop and stretch the pain away. Riding seemed to be OK, but as I did quite fancy being able to walk round the shops without being crippled by pain, I started out by going to see a chiropracter (who’s also a doctor of physiology – I’m aware of the ‘chiropracters are quacks’ thing) who identified a lot of weirdness – big imbalance to my left hand side in terms of posture and other things. She recomended doing pilates, as it’s seemingly more beginner friedly than yoga. That helped lots and got into the habit of doing a few basic things like a couple of roll downs and hip flexes every morning – easy enough to even do in the shower. Then just pushed myself to get out and walk – the gradual increase in mobility and strength eventually fixed stuff. Was also taking a vitamin B complex to aid with nerve regeneration. The walking has now turned to hiking, and do a few multi day moutnain trips every year. Also – for walking/hiking – use poles – it really helps to distribute load around your body more and really aids to mitigate jarring when descending. Post that shoulder injury, I don’t ride anything like as much, or as high consequence – but hike a reasonable amount and weirdly started playing rugby again (I’m 44) for a Vets side. That’s come with regular pulls & strains, but I’ve approached each one in the same way – strengthen the area affected gradually (i use free weights and resistance bands mostly) and lots of stretching – the stretching is almost automatic now. I’ve somehow managed to get into the county vets side, play most weeks for my club and genuinely feel the strongest (as in power) I’ve ever felt. It’s very different to the bike ‘strength’ I had in my twenties and early thirties – but Im still content with how I perform on the bike, and the different direction in other activities has been really refreshing. Keep working at it gently – it will get better.

Thanks for all the replies. I really do appreciate it.

Regarding walking, that’s very accessible. I have an eager spaniel waiting to go at any time. However, these recent niggles mean that walking hasn’t been easy. It took me about 20 minutes to walk 500m last night. Thankfully it was dark and only the dog was giving me weird looks!

Bad posture for sure. My on the road sales job is more office based than ever. I do try to move as much as possible during the day.

On the yoga side of it, I can’t. I’m not supple. I have really really poor flexibility.

It’s been said loads already, but if you have poor flexibility you must fix that first.
I used to run a lot as a bendy flexible teen (county level steeplechase and cross country/middle distance) and even back then at least 30-45 minutes of every training session was range of motion and flexibility work. Which was pretty amazing, as in every other area the coach was stuck in the 1960s.

 I have an eager spaniel waiting to go at any time

All the medicine you need (mine is confined to the cage of shame after his walk as I type. And some decent walking shoes (and socks too). Just take it easy for a while. I found it incredibly frustrating doing nothing but walking, but it will improve. Zone 1 and at a push 2, eventually about 40 km/week. Stick the Garmin on the dog for Strava :D

It took me about 20 minutes to walk 500m last night.

I’ve got a back spasm currently that meant that a week or so ago, it took me about 5 mins to walk from my bathroom to the bedroom, and at one point I held the door frame and yelped/cried because of the pain. I’m worried about the amount of Neurofen Plus I’m taking and all the comfy things in my hose have become devices of exquisite torture. But; I’m doing my yoga, I’ve binned off running for the duration, I just go for walks – It takes a bit to loosen up but at the end on a few Kms I can be pain free for a couple of hours and Z2 on the bike has become my favourite* thing

*Not really

Get a grip lad!!! I share your frustrations, but nothing is final!

You cannot recover from an injury and then go back straight into sport again. Do what you’ve always done, you get what you’ve always got. There needs to be a period of consistent and disciplined ‘prehab’ which should become just like brushing your teeth….ie it’s just what you now do twice a day. See if you can find a real PT and / or physio who will work with you properly. Like most things in life, not all PT’s / physios are created equal, find the best one you can. I doubt a GP will be able to offer you any real help on this matter unless you’re looking for a scan or private referral to a sports physio / specialist. 

Try and find a proper Pilates class in your area, where the instructor knows all about sport and sport rehab (a good physio practice will / should have plenty of contacts). Don’t bother watching YouTube videos, you’ll need subtle adjustments from the instructor and they’ll be able to give workarounds as not exacerbate your existing injuries. You’ll be amazed where 6 months of Pilates will get you – then you can start building the machine again! 

https://tommorrison.uk/products/the-simplistic-mobility-method?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6vaqBhCbARIsACF9M6kGu-NKCzwAjIYmwD_BxZOfXjKFpoPZ4tNRsqmu68pAQLnKjciNCBwaAkM7EALw_wcB

This chap might be able to help. Keep meaning to give his stuff a go.

I Feel your pain, I spent 8 months of the end 22 & start 2023 off the bike due to an elbow injury (impact from bike crash). Took a long time to get fit and safe again on the bike, managed a weekend in the lakes end of may but to only go and fully rupture my patella tendon playing football the Monday after 😒😂 trying to get fitter. Knee surgery was in June and I have only just driven a car for first time yesterday its shocking injury. Id take the advise above to knock football on the head, not worth it and I like you I loved it. I’m hopeful of riding again next spring but if not I’ll get out in the hills walking. I was also a non stretcher/ cool down etc so that is another lesson learned for future.

On the yoga stuff don’t try and do it all at once.  I’m not supple either and got incredibly frustrated that I couldn’t do even a 10 minute routine so I just didn’t.  I just did a couple of minutes if the easier stuff and then that expands as I got more flexible.   It’s pretty much impossible to make up for years of poor flexibility in only a few weeks without causing damage.  

I’m you in 10 years. All I can say is … please don’t give up. As many others have said above, strength and conditioning will help. What worked for me (after many different attempts) was one to one Pilates with a very good sports physio. She worked out what I could do with my various injuries and what I couldn’t. The result was I stopped going through the boom and bust of injuries that I’d previously been through on almost a monthly basis.

I now “manage” my various issues and rarely have a major bust up with my body. As my strength and flexibility improved through the very defined stretching and exercise programme she gave me, I found that walking a reasonable distance every day (roughly an hour) really helped with extending the period between problems. Unfortunately, I then broke a metatarsal that refuses to heal, so that isn’t quite working at the moment (and I’m really feeling the lack).

[“stcolin]

“stcolin

Free Member

On the yoga side of it, I can’t. I’m not supple. I have really really poor flexibility. The most basic yoga poses will have my hamstrings cramping or my back pulling. I’ve tried multiple times. Everytime my body get’s stressed, it just seems to give up. The exercises I did for my lower back were very limited due to all that.

I know this probably seems a bit ridiculous or trivial, but I’m utterly fed up with it.”

Bollocks!

Give it another go, Try as many different teachers as you can. They all have their own favourite routines/poses/stretches from pretty easy to bleedin’ impossible. Don’t overdo it or try too hard to impress the girl next to you. Give it a couple of months and you’ll feel the benefits.

All my life I have had tight hamstrings. As a kid I loved swimming, and was quick, but kicking as in freestyle or backstroke would result in my cramping up in my feet, calves or hams within a couple of lengths. 

A few years ago I met a Yoga teacher who persuaded me to go to Bali with her. In preparation I started doing yoga- all I could do/wanted to do for £30 for a month. It was knackering but when we got to Bali I was pretty flexi. Snorkelling with big flippers, previously cramp inducing in 5 minutes, was a doddle for a couple of hours!

And it gets those forgotten little muscles strong as well as supple. 

Go on, give it another go!

On the yoga side of it, I can’t. I’m not supple. I have really really poor flexibility. The most basic yoga poses will have my hamstrings cramping or my back pulling. I’ve tried multiple times. Everytime my body get’s stressed, it just seems to give up. The exercises I did for my lower back were very limited due to all that.

I know this probably seems a bit ridiculous or trivial, but I’m utterly fed up with it.”

If you’re sitting a lot of the day then sciatica type problems are gonna come knocking

If you have knee pain then do a piriformis release. Loads of vids on you tube. Went from excruciating pain walking to complete pain free.

As tired says, just walk.then walk more.

As above. Give up running and football. I use to run up to marathons. Got into my 50s and running was giving me knee problems. So I chucked it.

Now in my early 60s I’m swimming, Hill walking, and cycling. I won’t get any places on strava but enjoyed a month long bike tour this autumn.

No need to set any records. My pre tour training involved mostly 15-25 miles rides with a pub at the halfway point. Not timed.

I’m in the yoga camp as well.  I’m older and you, and while I like running, cycling, climbing, if I don’t look after myself  , meaning core and flexibility exercises, I pretty rapidly start falling apart.  It’s also very satisfying to have the feeling your overall conditioning is improving.

I do a mixture of classes, and youtube, and I try to be pretty regular.  I understand you’re not good now – well neither was I , and that’s all the more reason 

/\ Pilates to gain flexibility and core strength

i’ve been going 2-3 times a week for 3 months, each class is with a different teacher and they all work very very differently, but they all give/show basic, intermediate, advanced levels. Worth seeing what is available and give it a go for a  few weeks, it’ll make a big difference on the bike too..

ps. i had a director in my first proper job say “fat and unfit at 30, then you’ll have a tough second half of your life”

I’d add to the recommendation for Pilates rather than yoga. It’s quite gentle but focusses of using the right posture and technique to target particular muscles. It’s been good for my back.

As another non-impact sport, have you tried open canoe, on lakes not whitewater? It would help if you can afford a lightweight canoe so that you’re not overloading yourself lifting it on land.

“I am really struggling with getting older. I feel like everything I used to do is slipping away with nothing left.”

You’re only 41 FFS!

“THe best time to plant a fruit tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is Now!”

I too am making a connection between your poor attention to flexibility, core strength, warm up, and your attitude around expecting to ‘just do it’. (etc)

+1

+1 to what everyone’s saying. You (generalisation) have to earn being able to ‘run/ride/football’ injury free. Just like the professional footballers, etc, have to. If you want to run 5 hours a week, you need to be doing 5 hours of S+C.

Pilates classes, as others suggest. And do the unsexy core exercises – PROPERLY – like dead bugs, etc. Swinging oneself up into situps etc (basic/bad core exercises) will do more damage than good. Stability – from strength – is what’s needed. Stability is difficult and frustrating (you’ll be pissed off at yourself that you can’t even get the basic exercises right, to begin with) and needs constant maintenance.

I’m ‘only’ 41. But I didn’t think keeping fit would be this difficult and stressful.

You need to get comfortable with your own skin and what body you have. You need to accept that your body isnt capable of doing what you want it to do (right now), and stop looking what other people are doing, and what people claim to do on here.

I’ve got knackered hips, on my way to replacement. I used to be a keen runner and cyclist. I was gutted when I could only jog 2 miles, I now cant run at all. I can just about bike but thats no more than twice a week.

Stop playing football and ease off the running. When you have had 6 months of no niggles maybe re-introduce.

Echo what others have said

I have to say, I’m not sure that “tough love” is the best approach here?

Try and find someone offering advanced remedial massage. My experience is they can help identify possible causes and start to offer targeted exercises and advice for the treatment. Once you get some things to target, misaligned pelvis for me, then you can try to focus on that. 

Googling and trying out stuff and expecting it to work isn’t going to work by the sounds of it. You can and will do more damage just doing yoga because the internet said it’s going to fix it.

Or ask your GP about some pain management help as mental toughness can be just as important to stop thinking that every twitch is something to worry about.

Do not pack in the exercise or you will be ****. Maybe drop running and football if constantly injured. Broke my spine, badly, aged 46. 54 in a few weeks, and I have to keep active otherwise I may as well give up.  Always on the go, that keeps the muscles strong around the missing vertebrae.

Currently nursing a random knee strain, but anti-inflamatories and still cycle commuting is working.

Have you tried an e-bike? I know a lot of riders with chronic injuries who have managed to stay active and positive by switching to e-MTBs. An e-bike allows you to get out and enjoy the countryside, and with the assist they are much kinder to your knees especially uphill. You still need to be careful about setting up your riding position as an e-bike won’t help if you get shoulder/neck pains – and you do have to be careful not to get over-excited, as climbing on an e-MTB gives you even more opportunity to head downhill with all the risks that entails.

This strikes a chord with me. Am feeling much the same. I injured a knee at the end of 2021, ended up having a knee op and rehab in 2022, then succumbed to an ankle operation three months ago. Feels like best part of two years that I have been unable to go full tilt (and even before then because the ankle was a degenerative condition…. which now feels worse than ever even three months post surgery).

At times, I feel like chucking in the towel. I can’t do what I used to. At least not at the moment. Completing a race or triathlon seems a million miles off. Walking without pain would be nice at this point in time!

So I am concentrating on what I can do. I find swimming boring, but I can get down to the pool and swim a km before work. I can do a bit on Zwift, I can lift some weights in the gym. and I do modified yoga. There’s loads on YouTube that helps me do 30 mins and work around the injury. I’ve never been that flexible either, but the yoga helps massively. It doesn’t just happen… it is a process (a slow one in my case!)

For me, doing something is better than doing nothing though. It may not be racing…it is bridleway pootles at most right now…but it all helps keep me positive – and I think that is a big part of the healing process.

Good luck…. i know how frustrating it is.

I’m not sure that “tough love” is the best approach here

I’m not seeing anything here as tough love. Tough love would be telling me it is over and to wind my neck in playing football at 41.

I will research more on the pilates side of things. I will need to be very careful though.

I’m not getting an e-bike. If I’m determined for anything, it’s to stay away from assisted riding for as long as I can.

You need to get comfortable with your own skin and what body you have

Well nothing will change that. I’ve given myself a hard time for all of my adult life and my self asteem and self worth will never change. Believe me, I’ve tried. I’m sure someone will tell me I haven’t tried hard enough.

As above, not getting an e-bike. Despite injuries I still did two consecutive days of over 8 hours each day riding off road (excluding breaks) in the summer.  I’m not as fit as I was post accident, but there aren’t many folk my age doing the stuff I do, excluding the injuries. I’m seen as a bit mad at work. I ride with similar mad people though, and we see it as ‘normal’ to us.

I’m not getting an e-bike. If I’m determined for anything, it’s to stay away from assisted riding for as long as I can.

They are heaps of fun though, and TBH impossible to ride without making motorbike noises*, which if you ask me, is all the excuse any man needs

* this is the same Billy Connelly argument that states: Any man if left alone in a room with a tea cosy who doesn’t put it on his head is untrustworthy

@stcolin

I’m not seeing anything here as tough love.

Ok, I’m glad to hear that.

 I’ve given myself a hard time for all of my adult life and my self asteem and self worth will never change.

I can’t say for certain without having seen you in person, but it is likely that this is at least part of the cause of your pain.

“On the yoga side of it, I can’t. I’m not supple. I have really really poor flexibility.”

I’m sure others have said this but this is 100% the root of your problems. I’d have said the same about myself 10-15 years ago. I’m certainly not super flexible person now but it became obvious that as I got older (I’m just a few years older than you) I’d need to work on both strength and flexibility if I didn’t want to be broken by the challenges of an active life (especially riding – and crashing – mountain bikes!)

When you get older you can’t act like you could as a 20something  – there’s a reason 99% of pro sports people are retired by their 40s! The ones with long careers for their sport are usually the ones that looked after themselves in the right way.

It’s been said already but footy is a terrible exercise for a middle-aged injury prone person. Running is risky enough, but should be manageable if you are sensible about it. Which may be the difficult bit based on what you’ve written.

If you think you can’t ride a bike at age 41 then you either have some serious chronic diseases or you’re being silly.

“I will research more on the pilates side of things. I will need to be very careful though.”

Find a good teacher/class, be it yoga or pilates. Or a movement/flexibility oriented PT.

“I’m not getting an e-bike. If I’m determined for anything, it’s to stay away from assisted riding for as long as I can.”

I’ve found that swapping between an ebike and a singlespeed hardtail is the perfect combination for me. The good thing about riding an ebike hard downhill is it makes you work harder head to toe, especially on tight twisty trails. And the singlespeed demands sustained high power uphill. And the ebike stops you doing that half-hearted riding, it’s either chilling or full speed ahead. And the singlespeed tells me if I’ve let my endurance/power drop because I have to get off and push when I normally wouldn’t, etc.

All the medicine you need (mine is confined to the cage of shame after his walk as I type. And some decent walking shoes (and socks too). Just take it easy for a while. I found it incredibly frustrating doing nothing but walking, but it will improve. Zone 1 and at a push 2, eventually about 40 km/week. Stick the Garmin on the dog for Strava

100% this. Love the Garmin on the dog idea, my lurcher will nail the KOMs.

Finally a subject I know a lot about. If it wasn’t for injuries and rehab what would we talk about in the pub?

Part of it is expectations: 41 is the outer edge of youth when you still think you can do what you always did, and many can get away with this but not everyone. I remember having cartilage issues in my early/mid 30s in one ankle, high expectations of what I ought to be able to do made it worse I think – I’d push against rather than work round constraints. In fact that’s what got me back on the bike after a few years of not having one (shitty pub one donated by a friend which became my London commuter) which was brilliant. I remember after getting results of athroscopy being told by the Aussie doc to stop running “yeah but what would you say to me if I was a £5m footballer (it was a long time ago)? “Your career is over!!!”

Actually as you get properly older your expectations moderate. I never got back to running properly – pounding along a road is just hard – but did enough to place top 5 v50s in a couple of triathlons, just taking things steady and learning when to push on or back off. Though my main things are all outdoor stuff rather than team sport, where I guess it’s going to be hard to dial it down a bit in a controlled way?

I guess I’m saying that things might look very different in 10 years time, especially if you focus now on the right foundational stuff be it flexbility and posture, strength with a focus on core and the supporting muscles before hoiking big weights about, aerobic stuff with a focus initially at least on just running the motor and enjoying that.

‘though I have to say

I am really struggling with getting older. I feel like everything I used to do is slipping away with nothing left.

Ageing is hard and gets harder as you go, and is certainly not for the weak. I sadly do not have other options to recommend.

When I had been having knee problems I saw 3 different physios. All 3 thought it was something different, and all 3 put me through different exercises. One thought it was tendonitis, one thought a meniscus tear, and the other wasn’t sure but leant towards it coming from my back. Decided to get a scan, and there it was. A bruised femur at the knee, and a distinct lack of Cartlidge on the inside of my left knee. I was pretty shocked. Was told to stop running and football. So, I rested up, kept at some of the exercises and off I went. About 6 months into it I had been suffering with my knee locking (not in the traditional knee lock sense). I couldn’t even take the dog for a walk. I could manage gentle cycling on the flat. Went to another physio recommended by a couple of people. He tells me that being told I couldn’t play football or run was nonsense really. I also know of a few runners who have arthritis and have been knocking out marathons every year. Anyway, I go to this new guy and go through more exercises. Knee slowly improves. End up at GP, bloods taken, nothing to worry about. He then sends me to someone else. I had 4 sessions with him and things improved even more and I seemed to be making improvements with my hammies. I had 2 exercises geared towards these that I’d not done before. Started jogging very lightly, nothing more than 5k. I went back to 5 aside, took it super easy, and this was grand for a few weeks. Proper warm ups and cool downs. Then, last week, everything seems to let go. Back square one. I’m walking like John Wayne today.

So yea, that all adds to the frustration. All the different opinions and directions given. Go figure.

I’m under no illusions that I’m not 20 anymore.

Pack in the football.