I do understand STW is in no way representative of the biking community but there is a recurring theme of “package holidays” that is a bit odd for me to understand.

What is the point to get overpriced holidays in a very busy location through a package?

It will be much cheaper, much funnier and much more interesting to DIY surely?

Why would someone would like to go to the same big resort or with the same holiday company and ride the same trails, don’t mix with locals, pay more?

Explain this to me. I quite understand people want to ride bike, but surely planning your ride on a map is part of the fun too. Riding where no one else is riding is much more enjoyable then getting stuck behind massive groups of people…

Each time we have been on biking holidays it has been some DIY and I can’t really see what value a holiday company would have been?

Discuss…

You can often find far better trails when with a guide as they really know the area. finding trails on a map can be very hit and miss. We’ve always done diy up till last year when we did 3 days guided riding with Rivierabike. The difference in the riding that we found in the area and what they led us to was amazing. So we’ve booked to go back with them again this year.

Also it didn’t actually work out much cheaper doing it ourselves.

I always prefer to be unguided. However you risk missing trails but you will also find stuff.

Juan,
Complete knowledge of local singletrack, bus uplifts, better accommodation, Airport transfers (Have you every tried to get a taxi driver to transfer bikes), bike workshop etc. Maybe you should try one to see why.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about where you are on the map.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about going over a cliff.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about wether there was a better trail that you’ve missed.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about finding the right trails to suit your abilities.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about finding which lifts are open.

Because you can just ride your bike all day without worrying about organising your own dinners when you get home fubar’ed.

Just a few reasons but I’m sure there are more.

Heres a story of mine from last summer in Verbier.

A guide was out riding with a few guests on quite a remote ride that involved riding to the top of Verbier, then dropping down into another valley and getting the train back around. Whilst riding along a remote bit of singletrack they stumbled apon 3 british people (1 man and 2 women). They were looking very worried and didn’t know what to do, as the forth member of their team had fallen off his bike down a gravel spree. They didn’t know the name of the trail they were on, the name of the area or the emergency phone number. The guide and on of his guests started climbing down the mountain at the side of the spree. They eventually found him hooked around a tree. They called a in rescure in with a accurate gps location and local knowedge of the area and the guy was air lifted off the super steep wooded mountian and lived to fight another day (I think). It the time we were having a bbq with the 2 people that run the chalet that the guide belonged to, so we were getting regular phone calls and updates, but it must have taken them about 3 hours to get him off the mountain and carry on. According to gps the guy fell 400 vertical metres! The pictures I saw of him beeing airlifted out where quite horific, he was proper blue and looked dead and all that remained of his full face helmet was the straps!

Moral of the story is:
Riding in the alps is not like riding in the Quantocks so it always helps to have someone who can speak the local language and knows the area. This guy was lucky (they were propbaby the only 2 groups of people to ride along there that day).

Places like the PDS are different as there are so many people and they are prepared for lots of bikers, but some of the smaller places with amazing singletrack can be quite extreme.

agree with trailmonkey 🙂

If you look at the Spanish costas, riding in August is nigh on impossible in the heat. Most people come here outside of July and August, when the trails are blistering and the beaches and bars empty. Not too sure where these jam packed locations are. Are you referring to France or Canada?

Also, the prices seem fairly reasonable to me, and you just have to look at the rave reviews from people who have been on them week in week out. they dont seem to be saying they got ripped off or anything.

I simply prefer to wander around on my own. I’ll prepare properly and know where I am and research the trails, and I accept the compromise that inevitably there will be more faff and I might miss some riding.

’cause I’m on holiday? Sometimes it’s nicer to have all the “stuff” taken care off. The Food, The Routes, The housekeeping all that dull stuff.

I’m more in the DIY camp I guess. Always have been, whether it involves bikes or not. In fact, I’ve only ever been on one “package” holiday in 50 years. However, I can see the attraction. It’s like timeshare. Some folk say “why go to the same place every year”, and the answer can be “because I don’t waste time/effort finding out where everything is”.

I generally prefer to do it myself, however when we went to Morzine, we got a catered chalet thing, which was cheap enough that I’d have probably spent almost as much if we’d done self catering, and when you go out for a whole days riding, it is nice not to have to do anything at the end of it.

In terms of guiding, we didn’t really need it in that area, as it is well marked and mapped, and there are loads of people around to get trail knowledge off.

I’ve done mountaineering with guides though, and that was nice, lets you go places you couldn’t go on your own without more training/confidence/equipment than I have, like through high mountain passes in New Zealand.

Joe

I’ve done both, but I prefer to be guided as per trailmonkey.

I don’t think you save much going DIY except if you can organise a big group in which case I just haggle with the company

I have never done a “package” holiday until my trip to Morocco 2 weeks ago and over there, there is no way you would’ve found the stuff we were doing without a guide. You need their expertised and knowledge of the best trails. It also wasn’t that expensive and the holiday was excellently run. Got up every morning and didn’t have to worry about where we were going etc etc.

I also agree with TrailMonkey. To a point I like reading a map but when we get lost and people start arguging .. makes it rubbish!!!

Horses for courses – echo the above.

If you are busy at work you may not want the hassle of planning a DIY trip. It’s also a nice way to meet folk if you’re on your own.

If you have time and inclination DIY is great but you are bound to miss out on the best trails – in fact I’d leave DIY trips for backpacking holidays or road touring now I think.

I live oop north. Occasionally I go on a family holiday to somewhere like Exmoor. There is some great riding there. I just stumble across it by reading maps and doing a bit of research, which is fun in itself. It won’t be as good as the rides the locals do, and I may need to keep stopping and checking my bearings, but I’ve not spent a fortune on it they still use ordnance survey maps, hey ho lets go.

OK, so instead I go to say Spain or the Alps. I’ve gone a long way away to ride, specially to somewhere famous for great riding. I only have a few days. Maps are different to what we’re used to. Some of the best trails aren’t on the map, or might look like roads, or whatever. A fail could be life threatening. This is something rare and special I don’t do very often.

Each to their own, but to ignore the advantages of a guide with local knowledge, backup, etc seems a strange choice to me?

It will be much cheaper, much funnier and much more interesting to DIY surely?

I TOTALLY agree, and I know exactly what you mean as well.

I’ve done it in the USA, and we’re going to France (Morzine) next month (That’s WCA, DrP, AndyW and me) Driving down, campsite booked and 3 days riding where we like. (OK, one day PPdS and 1 day we’ve booked a guide) Something is bound to go wrong, but I love that.
USA and Europe is great, just rock up, try to speak French or Italian and see where you end up. We’ve been chucked off a closed campsite in Italy, soaked to the skin on a scooter in the hills in Greece, hopelessly lost in Florence (On motorbikes), been fined on a train for not validating our tickets, all sorts of stuff…

But we’ve found some great off-the-beaten-track places to stay, little farms in France selling incredible cider, been to towns, bars and resteraunts ONLY the locals know exist by accident, sat and had picnics in places where you thing you’ve gone deaf its so quiet, soaked our aching feet in mountain streams, been to the Moto GP with 150,000 mad Italians and met some real characters on the way

Sometimes it doesn’t feel safe, sometimes I get worried, but not often. I couldn’t bear to be shuttled round, HAVE to be in a certain place at a certain time (Missed the ferry? Ahh, there’ll be another) and live by the clock or by someone else’s decision (Where does this trail go?)

When things go wrong, that’s what we laugh about and the tales we tell for years to come

I could probably stick a package MTB holiday, but £700 a week? (Plus flights?) Sod that.

For me, holiday heaven is a plane ticket and a hire car. Holiday hell is a luxury cruise in the Carribean…..

😀

EDIT – Food – We’ve found some incredible stuff in little shops… Local wine (Bring your own bottle!) meats, cheeses, fresh fruit, olives. Make yer own from local ingredients. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 🙂

pretty sound reasoning above, i’d just add that as i get 4 weeks holiday/year + bank holidays, i want my time off to be the best it can be. frankly pi55ing about with maps, riding 5hite trails, and cooking my own tea isn’t on the list, when i can be shown the best stuff, be entertained, looked after if something goes wrong, and fed like a king, then go out for a few beers with my mates afterwards.
yeah – guided bike holidays are rubbish. verbier next month is going to be crap. i’m dreading it. 🙂

Like others have said, you want to make the most of your week off work. We went with Over The Edge in Austria, the guides had stories of trying to find new routes, decending 400 metres off a mountain only to be met by a ‘private’ sign, and with no choice but to continue, end up on the wrong end of a shotgun!

On our last day we met a couple of brits going up on a cable car, they didn’t know where they were going and were just going to try and find a way down (in heavy mist). They went off ahead of us and must have taken a wrong turn as they didn’t take the route we took. There are only two routes off the mountain, several miles of fireroad all the way to the valley, or the singletrack descent our guide led us to.

Those two brits missed the singletrack: http://vimeo.com/1762474 (From 8:20)

If you are going to an area that doesn’t have waymarked trails, I’d definately say a few extra quid to be guided is worth it. (though most holidays are guiding packages, you still arrange your own flights and transfers don’t you?)

for the same reasons, guiding in the UK can be very valuable too. If you’re on holiday with the family, you can maybe slope off for a day or too on the bike, getting a good guide in a region you’ve never ridden in can make the difference between a good day or a great day. takes the pressure off, and you can find the best bits of an area’s riding, then return at your leisure.

Juan, shut it 😉

… and yeah, what Trailmonkey said.

LOL at ash from the guys who is a huge DIYer 😉

Lost count of the times Ive been withn Bike Verbier and every time have been taken on different trails that I would never have found or in some [most] instances been too scared to try. I think the extra money is well spent for the additional service, coaching and guiding that is provided

Tracey

It’s the convenience Juan.

lots of people have money, but don’t have time. So they want to make their week count, so they pay the extra money to save them time. Time planning, time going the wrong way, time looking at the map, it’s all about time.

Same argument as to going to a restaurant instead of cooking for yourself. I bet you go to restaurants don’t you? 😉

simple really.

Yes, but you’re forgetting some crucial points here:

Juan is cleverer than anyone else.
Juan is a better rider than anyone else.
Juan is a better driver than anyone else.
Juan will know trails (even ones he’s never been to) better than anyone else.
Juan can get to destinations much, much quicker than anyone else.
Juan can cook better than anyone else.
Juan’s linguistic skills are better than anyone elses.

And even when faced with evidence to the contrary, Juan is still more right than anyone else… 😉

Nowt wrong with a package, sometimes. Quite nice to not have to worry about organising owt, tbh. Nice to be able to just relax, and chill out.

Good getting off the beaten track an’ all, though. Discovering stuff for yourself, without having to be led to it.

Silly to be snobbish about package hols, though, imo.

Guess it depends where you go, what you’re after and with which company. With Bike Verbier you get empty singletrack trails to rival any in the world, but you’d never find them without the guides. Plus, all in, it probably still works our cheaper than DIY. Simple.

Juan

You went on trips with guides in molini?

Also when you think people from the UK fly over have to do transfers from airports etc.. it comes alot easier.

This August I am going to some of the French and Italian resorts DIY, mostly because i am just a few hours away and i plan to go a few times and not as my only single holiday of the year like most people.

Riding in the alps is not like riding in the Quantocks so it always helps to have someone who can speak the local language and knows the area.

Have you ever spoken to a “real” Quantocks local? you’d need a translator there too 😉