This Stone Henge Outrage

I don’t know if or how much it furthers the cause but if it gets a few people thinking and talking about it in a dialectic way rather than media comments rage way, it’s better than not doing it at all.

A big if there and it is just as likely to put more people off and think climate change stuff is for “those nutters”.

^ this. What purpose do they think this is going to possibly serve?

That they can drive 100 miles back home in their oil guzzling car, sit in front of their wood burning stove eating a nice New Zealand Lamb steak with a glass of white wine from the Napa Valley, watching their Chinese 65″ widescreen TV, sound in the knowledge they have done their bit to save the planet.

Because the folks that JSO are aiming their protest at don’t really see Stone Henge as valuable either.

I know what you mean. Some will though and some will just be triggered because it’s ‘lefties’ with blue hair. And that’s kind of the point, what and who are you angry with and why, and does that make much sense / how proportional is that? ..and for those who can’t have that internal debate or resolve that Q, well.. thinking is hard sometimes isn’t it : )

People have different views because they’ve had different lives and influences. I heard someone say, if you’d have lived their life so far you’d think like they do. Probably true. Change is hard.

A big if there and it is just as likely to put more people off and think climate change stuff is for “those nutters”.

As I said, if this ‘puts people off’ then they’re people who’re hard of thinking or never GAS to begin with. A person can be pro environmental causes and anti JSO’s methods, or pro both. Your position on environmental issues sits way above some media protest tactics. This isn’t a net loss thing, the folks who don’t GAS are anti anyway, JSO or not.

Sure I get what you’re saying, but actions like attacking Stone Henge are the excuse lots of folks need to just ignore them, and write off their actions as ‘just vandalism’ Rather than provoke a discussion or thoughts about what they hold valuable, it’s all the fuel (no pun intended) to do the exact opposite.

Then as RM points out, it just becomes action for action’s sake, it’s un-directed and pointless.

A person can be pro environmental causes and anti JSO’s methods

Yes, I am one of those people.  As for not GAS, I am in that camp when in comes to JSO as think they are pointless and any effect they have is tiny but they seem to be enjoying themselves I suppose.

And lets be honest for a moment, Stonehenge is a Victorian re-imagining of what a henge looked like.

I’d bet you a penny to a pound that at various points in time people painted it in bright colors and did far more outrageous things there than shuffle past some grey stones mumbling  about how magnificent “our” history / country is.

‘graffiti’ / vandalism, whatever, is as old as the stones themselves…

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/digital-laser-scans-of-stonehenge-reveal-ancient-graffiti-74079178/

As for not GAS, I am in that camp when in comes to JSO as think they are pointless and any effect they have is tiny but they seem to be enjoying themselves I suppose.

I may be in that camp, I’m not sure tbh. I can’t say for sure if they’re pointless – it’d just be an opinion. So on balance I just think along the lines of there being (almost) no such thing as bad publicity. And, older folks like me should listen to younger folks more.

‘graffiti’ / vandalism, whatever, is as old as the stones themselves…

I remember seeing all the graffiti on there when you could get that close. No equivalent outrage over that, no-one trying to find who Robbo1977 was etc. No outrage in the papers when a beautiful old building in a city centre gets tagged because it happens all the time. You need a ‘man bites dog’ situation to get in the papers – as JSO realise.

Sure I get what you’re saying, but actions like attacking Stone Henge are the excuse lots of folks need to just ignore them, and write off their actions as ‘just vandalism’ Rather than provoke a discussion or thoughts about what they hold valuable, it’s all the fuel (no pun intended) to do the exact opposite.

I’m sorting of with Jameso on this TBH, the people who are “put off” most likely weren’t interested in engaging with the topic to begin with, if they needed “an excuse” there was never going to be any dialogue was there?

A handful are able to see the issue despite the (mostly) RW media narrative.

Just like my wife, she’s not denying climate change or that something must be done, but her priorities are sadly out of whack and in her mind that something falls to someone else and she’s gotten hung up on the nature of the protests not the topic they’re attempting to draw attention to.

I think the actions of jso actually make it harder for serious people to effect change.  All they do is give the deniers another brush to tarnish them with on the old guilty by association. How can those who want to make serious change and policy do so without been seen to have given into these idiots actions

All they do is give the deniers another brush to tarnish them with on the old guilty by association. How can those who want to make serious change and policy do so without been seen to have given into these idiots actions

Very easily, they say they’re doing it because of X or Y, they’ll be things that were all there long before JSO. Protest is a show of emotion or raises the profile of a point but change happens through debate or study of the point. The protest doesn’t undermine the study.

‘idiots’ says where you stand on JSO and I’m not saying this to change your mind at all, I’m just saying that they don’t undermine the climate debate and the scientific knowledge etc – people who say that they do undermine it for them were thinking that way already. Or just not thinking.

TBH, the people who are “put off” most likely weren’t interested in engaging

So what audience is the stunt for then? Those that understand the climate threat don’t need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.

So what audience is the stunt for then? Those that understand the climate threat don’t need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.

Fair point, and the long and the short of it is I don’t think it’s ‘counter productive‘ more just adding to the general media ‘noise‘ the great unwashed are subject to every day…

In fairness the outrage machine is sort of agnostic, they’ll adopt whatever position gets more clicks and comments (with their given target audience), a small proportion of the coverage will actually touch on the issue and relay JSO’s own statements,  but the spin is always going to be pitched towards the audiences existing bias.

Like I said before though the opposing group has a marketing department, oil money and primetime ad spots booked already. I understand JSO’s frustration leading them to these sort of protests. But yeah, ultimately it is just more noise.

They’re a bit shit anyway aren’t they?

Those that understand the climate threat don’t need it, and those that do need to understand the message are most likely ignoring it.

I expect there’s a sliding scale of understanding and acting. Perhaps also they’re hoping for a chain reaction effect.

And lets be honest for a moment, Stonehenge is a Victorian re-imagining of what a henge looked like.

Exactly my thinking. It’s a cultural palimpsest. JSO just added another layer which I  think is quite amusing.

Perhaps also they’re hoping for a chain reaction effect

Do you mean going bust 😀😀

^ Ha.. very good, maybe

(“who funds you!?”)

Back in 1999 there was a propsal to demolish stonehenge with explosives, to symbolise that the UK would be forward looking in the 21st Century rather than obsessing about the past……………………………….

A person can be pro environmental causes and anti JSO’s methods

You’re right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that’s pro-environment. How’s that going, by the way ?

Who said forget about protest?

You’re right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that’s pro-environment. How’s that going, by the way

Or – instead of making pointless protests that do more to harm than benefit the net zero progress, they could actually get jobs in the low carbon sphere. There is oodles of work going on just now in Engineering and Project management* just now where they would be able to make a constructive difference to our world in some small part. Might mean a little retraining &/ some effort but will facilitate much better returns in the long run.

I’m quite confident I’ll achieve more CO2 reduction this year alone through my work projects than most of the JSO lot will achieve in their lifetimes inspiring others to change. It’s a bit harder than throwing orange paint around though.

*used as one example as it’s what I have knowledge of

Or – instead of making pointless protests that do more to harm than benefit the net zero progress, they could actually get jobs in the low carbon sphere. There is oodles of work going on just now in Engineering and Project management* just now where they would be able to make a constructive difference to our world in some small part. Might mean a little retraining &/ some effort but will facilitate much better returns in the long run.

Well done you for checking up on the CVs and capabilities of the JSO protestors in order to make a constructive suggestion.

Who said forget about protest?

You’re right. There’s always a strongly worded letter to the local newspaper. Or whatever other means of protest the comfortable middle classes deem acceptable.

For the public, there is a complete disconnect between the action and the message here. And the step from interrupting sporting and other heavily media covered events to stunts involving artworks and historic sites really isn’t going to help them, or draw anyone to their cause. You can ignore those making that point if you want of course, but the point isn’t “all protest is bad”, more “this protest is a bit shit, isn’t it”.

“this protest is a bit shit, isn’t it”

Because you say so. Got it.

Ok DrJ – give me one measurable benefit to the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere / our reliance on fossil fuels that has came from yesterdays’ stunt?

Because you say so.

Yeah, pretty clear from my short posts that I was just voicing my own opinion. Which isn’t that we should “forget protest”, merely that this one seems ill thought out.

You’re right, we should forget protest and just vote for a party that’s pro-environment. How’s that going, by the way ?

Hey, I just said they could be .. didn’t say it was right or rational. Their position on the environmental challenges we face would probably sit way above what they think of JSO. And I fully appreciate that JSO do what they do because politicians and business is doing so little, so late. I’m pro-protest, more power to the people.

joshvegasFree Member
They’re a bit shit anyway aren’t they?

Ah, you’re thinking of JLS there

How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?

Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?

For those saying they’re a bit shit and could do better, what could/should they be doing? I mean, go to an oil refinery and attempt to mess with it and you risk industrial accidents, will be arrested fast whatever you do even if you get in, and possibly get no coverage unless something goes wrong and the services are called out. The guy who stopped traffic on the bridge was held in custody for 14 months then jailed for 3 years, hardly seems proportional does it?

Hold up Wimbledon or the TdF or chuck soup on a covered painting and no-one’s hurt, you get loads of press and it’s your right to protest.

Ok DrJ – give me one measurable benefit to the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere / our reliance on fossil fuels that has came from yesterdays’ stunt?

Seriously?

How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?

Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?

Too funny. So environmental protest isn’t valid unless the protestors wear humanely trapped animal skins and communicate with low-carbon smoke signals.

How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?

Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?

A warm welcome to Mr Gotcha : )

How do the JSO folks get around? Do they just walk everywhere?

Also, I wonder if anyone has ever told them what their smartphones are made from?

I wonder if you’ve done any slight bit of research into their aims……

Relative to their methods, their aims are actually incredibly moderate.

The aims of Just Stop Oil include:

1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.
3. Raising awareness and encouraging people to reduce the usage of oil-powered vehicles.

1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.

Big fat failure then.  There is no way on earth than any UK government is going to take a blind bit of notice of them when creating their policies and approaches.

Including actual vandalism is not great either is it really, not going to add to their cause.

thisisnotaspoonFree Member
I wonder if you’ve done any slight bit of research into their aims……

Relative to their methods, their aims are actually incredibly moderate.

I know what their aim is, but all they seem to be doing is getting on peoples nerves and making their cause look stupid. Obviously I don’t have a better alternative.

Still wonder how they travel.

DrJFull Member

Too funny. So environmental protest isn’t valid unless the protestors wear humanely trapped animal skins and communicate with low-carbon smoke signals.

Exactly this, although they’d have to give up their Macbooks, Starbucks and Netflix. The vegans in their ranks might not be too happy about the animal skins though, humanely trapped or not.

1. Convincing the British government to end new fossil fuel licensing and production using civil resistance, direct action, traffic obstruction, and vandalism.
2. Demanding investment in renewable energy and better thermal insulation for buildings.

Big fat failure then.  There is no way on earth than any UK government is going to take a blind bit of notice of them when creating their policies and approaches.

Erm……..

Labour have committed to exactly that.  No new licenses (and a 78% windfall tax on existing operations and ending investment allowances that reduce tax burdens), And GB-Energy in whatever watered down form it ends up taking.

Exactly this, although they’d have to give up their Macbooks, Starbucks and Netflix. The vegans in their ranks might not be too happy about the animal skins though, humanely trapped or not.

What have macbooks, starbucks and netflix got to do with this?