Thinking about a Trek Rail, 500w slightly older version, Gen2 Bosch

Bike Garage I guess. Cool.

Just to be contrary, I really don’t think of my Trek as a plow type bike. I’m 5’10” on a medium so maybe that has something to do with it? One of my other bikes is a hello dave, that’s definitely something to do with it. I rode it at FOD afew weeks ago and thought it was great there.
One of the new (to me) sections was, I think, TNT, and it was almost full lock in a couple of places. The trek didn’t feel like a boat, my mate struggled more, on a large Mondraker admittedly.
It also really like it at one of my locals, Twisted Oaks, it’s so stable in the (minimal) air.

all opinions are good 🙂

If I may…

Reading between the lines, you seem to prioritise the finance on this over the choice you want. The same as when you were looking at part exchange on the analogue trek when you were looking at the part exchange on that for the whyte or whatever, when you drove to part ex it etc.

You also didn’t like the trek much and wanted rid for a long time. So I’d wonder if an electric version of the same is going to change that opinion.

@kayak23 pretty much sums up my experience & thoughts also.

Ebikes are great fun, but overall (if not time crunched) I still prefer a normal bike, no question.

Eeeb is however absolutely brilliant for squeezing rides in that you otherwise couldn’t (e.g. too little time, too tired)

Reading between the lines, you seem to prioritise the finance on this over the choice you want.

Sadly in the world, the financial aspect has to play somewhat of a factor yes.

You may have mis-interpreted the Trek/Slayer dealer slightly though as that was a PX i wanted rather than a sale, the difference was paid in cash… but i do get your point that it was still based upon certain transactions.

I’m (once again) in a similar situation to @weeksy 😂 – most mates I ride with (particularly at bike parks) have all gone E and I’m left in trying to catch up.

Unfortunately ebikes are expensive, you have to buy a full bike, 2nd hand is a no-no as regards warranty, and finance or heavy discounts online seem the way to go. The only way around it is to be lucky enough to find one on sale near by.

Of the three I’m tempted by only one is local, one is an hour away and the other online. All three would be paid by finance in some way or other and vary in cost from 3700 ~ 5500, unfortunately the most expensive is also the local one with the smallest discount. The cheapest has the worst spec (battery and motor) and the middle range would be online purchase so not great for any warranty issues if anything did go wrong.

Personally I’m looking at two things only on an ebike, battery and motor, as many parts I’ll swap out or upgrade anyway. If your happy with bosh and 500wh go with the trek.

Well if my experience of the Gen 2 motor is anything like typical I would avoid like the plague . After the 4th motor in 3 years Bosch advised me not to ride in the wet as “they don’t like it” 🤔

I do wish this wasn’t the case. I get all excited and think “yeah i could….” and then things like that bring the potential complexities back to my mind.
I’m going to sit and hold for a bit on this… try the Liv Eeb tonight at FoD as my legs are tired from Zwift race yestrday… If that dies again i may have to reconsider a plan…

But i really struggle with MTBs being ‘out of action’ and it doesn’t sit well with me… but it really does seem like it’s possible with EEb more than manuals (stating the obvious a bit i know).

Well if my experience of the Gen 2 motor is anything like typical I would avoid like the plague . After the 4th motor in 3 years Bosch advised me not to ride in the wet as “they don’t like it” 🤔

The Bosch Gen4 is a completely different beast.

You’ll just get stronger and better able to chuck it around as you get used to it. Failing that work on upper body strength. I haven’t got one, but whenever we hire them it only takes a run or two before I don’t notice much (obviously they’re not as
Light as my HT), but then I’ve got quite a lot of upper body strength (as has my Crossfitting wife). She just hates trying to wheelie or actually pick it up.

Can you put an angleset in the Liv, over fork it, fit wider bars, bigger brakes, etc for a bit (I’m sure you have a few spare bits knocking around) and use that for a while to get used to the weight?

I think for the type of riding you’re describing a full fat ebike sounds about right. Especially if you’re keeping the Slayer or another bike. You’ll be ferrying your sinks stuff up and down the hills at races, banging out as many laps as you can at BOW and FOD and the like. The bigger battery is going to be your friend.

I’d still avoid Shimano motors like the plague as their after sales support doesn’t seem to be very good

Can you put an angleset in the Liv, over fork it, fit wider bars, bigger brakes, etc for a bit (I’m sure you have a few spare bits knocking around) and use that for a while to get used to the weight?

I’ve got better bars on it… but could fit the Burgtec 38s on there as well… I was actually considering forks… i was even tempted to try mulleting it with the Slayer forks as an experiment 😀 😀
I then looked also at the cheap forks the other day i think they were 150, which is 20mm up from stock… but i didn’t get round to it..

However, until i get it tested and make sure it’s all good at FoD, Peaks/BPW this weekend, i’m not going to lob any money at it.

The Trek Rail is still holding my interest… but i do wonder in reality if i’ll actually use it much. A lot may depend on this weekends Peaks ride and how my riding mate gets on with his Rail hire bike, as that will directly influence whether he jumps in on one now, or stays with manual.

Just to add that not all e-bikes give the same feel.
I’ve got a Rail 9.9, full carbon job, not too heavy for a full fat one.
My wife has a Focus Jam 6.9.
The difference is massive, I can throw the Rail around and ride it pretty much like I would my Capra. By contrast the Focus feels like riding a Range Rover.

I know the suspension spec on the Rail 5 is basic, if you get a chance to try one of the higher spec ones I suspect it will feel like a totally different bike.

I know the suspension spec on the Rail 5 is basic, if you get a chance to try one of the higher spec ones I suspect it will feel like a totally different bike

Not sure that’d help as i can’t afford an £8000 one… so it’ll just disappoint me then 😀

Well i spent a couple of hours on the Ebike last night… But i’m not sure if riding the Liv is helping or hindering my decision. It’s very much a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde relationship i have with it. There’s bits that are amazing and bits that are Hateful. But i don’t know what’s actually responsible for the hateful in some ways.

The brakes are poor… like really really average, but they are Tektro somethings, so that’s not insurmountable as a thing to fix…. I’ve got a tonne of spare brakes and for this weekend i may even throw on a CodeR front i’ll do the rear if it’s viable to route it with motor in the way, but i think not. (easily)
The bouncers, well again both are fairly low level, XFusion somethings, so not impossible to fix but fairly basic..
It’s lacking a dropper… which is more of an issue than i’d like, i think i stuck it up/down about 15 times at FoD last night 😀

But none of those bits are E-Bike specific, but low level spec bike specific.. The Ebike side is where the Jekyl/Hyde comes into play in terms of riding… I did a hill on it, to the top of the red, over by Elephant Man side, this thing was ridiculous in terms of hill, i looked at it first and thought “can i even get up there” but yeah, it seems you can, you just stick the power on and climb, it just goes up, up, up… lol… it’s truely epic what it can do in the get to the top without dying context. At the top it whines it’s way along easily enough but it’s lacking the POP, the fun, the playful. This is the bit that i’m struggling with. It does everything, it gets over things, but instead of WHOOP and POP, it’s bah-dunk, clu-dunk, over everything like you’re sucked into the floor. With the 27.5 wheels it can make turns, it can do switchbacks, but it’s DONK.. rahter than me flowing, it’s just Transit Vanning it’s way down things. And that’s where i’m struggling.
It did however mean i could try things out in my riding SO much easier… “right, do this section without braking”, then go back and “right, try this body position”… then go back “try this here on this corner…” repetition. Will that help me more longer term…. well there is my question.

I’ll admit, part of me does worry that if i bought the Trek i’d never ride the Slayer again lol… but part of me adores the Slayer and how it rides compared to the Ebike..

I’m a little bit torn.

Ive just bought an Ebike, Spesh Turbo levo SL. Did loads of research, test rides etc. Most of my riding is around the lakes, so a full fat ebike would be brutal. The Spesh rides great without any assistance, which is what I was after, with the assist just there when I need it on those looooong climbs.
With a piggyback I could do up to 5hrs if needed. I know it’ll go wrong, so I have a few local spesh dealers (Keswick) so if it goes wrong i can pop it in to the shop.

Felltracks have a few nearly new specialized ebikes in

Felltracks

Funnily i bought the Slayer from there… 🙂

Well if my experience of the Gen 2 motor is anything like typical I would avoid like the plague .

Yeah apparently the description is wrong and it’s Gen4….

“ It does everything, it gets over things, but instead of WHOOP and POP, it’s bah-dunk, clu-dunk, over everything like you’re sucked into the floor.”

My exact experience of the focus jam2 I used to have. Good in so many ways but the stuck to the floor I had mixed views on. Soaked everything up and gave me confidence on tech stuff but just felt dead and uninspiring, lost some of the fun.

Now got a Rise M20 and by and large feels like a normal bike when descending, and not really noticing loss of power on the ups. If anything prefer feeling like I’m working hard with a bit of help rsther than other way round. When it does get proper steep bits I’d be at limit on the power plenty to get up.

Lower battery capacity than the Jam2 by 5% but I’m getting a regular 30% more range. By range I actually mean ascent as that’s more reflective of the riding I do (up steep then down). 4000-4500 feet of ascent from the 360wh battery and I’m heavy and unfit. Rare I’d ever have time or inclination to ride for more so not seeing range extender as necessary.

My only negative is the rear end has a lot, and I mean a LOT of lateral flex. Feel it on descents and takes a bit if getting used to as was regularly thinking puncture or something loose.

Now got a Rise M20

Mate who’s at the Peaks this weekend with us has a Rise 15 i think it is… As long as his new van arrives he’ll potentially be bringing on Sat and also Monday to BPW. Obviously if he does i’ll be jumping on it.

At the top it whines it’s way along easily enough but it’s lacking the POP, the fun, the playful. This is the bit that i’m struggling with. It does everything, it gets over things, but instead of WHOOP and POP, it’s bah-dunk, clu-dunk, over everything like you’re sucked into the floor. With the 27.5 wheels it can make turns, it can do switchbacks, but it’s DONK.. rahter than me flowing, it’s just Transit Vanning it’s way down things. And that’s where i’m struggling.

I’d probably put a large portion of that down to the atrocious geometry of the early Giant e-bikes. They genuinely had longer back ends than fronts & rode like crap.

Compare a decent one with good geometry & it should be a totally different experience.

I’d probably put a large portion of that down to the atrocious geometry of the early Giant e-bikes. They genuinely had longer back ends than fronts & rode like crap.

Compare a decent one with good geometry & it should be a totally different experience.

Yeah hopefully this weekend will answer that… Although i’m half tempted to get the Trek anyway as it’s only really a matter of time beofre i eventually buy one and one of these does give me the option for not ridiculous money. I’m very much aware that not only is the Liv arguably the wrong size for me, but the wrong geometry and spec for what i want 😀

Try all the others, but don’t overlook Specialized, they make damn good ebikes

Also, thankfully I’ve never needed it, but apparently Berkshire Cycle Co are really good for out of warranty Spesh repairs if anything goes wrong in the future

I love a Specialized but they rarely come up on the right finance terms to suit me. I’d have one if i could find the right deal. Although like all Ebikes, i’ve seen a fair few horror stories.

Each time this stuff comes up i hear a few more and think i’m better sticking with the Liv, even though it’s rubbish, it’s our rubbish and paid for. 😀

Weeksy, you not bought it already?? Its gonna happen – you know it and so do we, all the above is just noise.

Buy it, worry about it later….. 😀

Excellent point SSS

I’m hanging on until tomorrows test ride.

I love a Specialized but they rarely come up on the right finance terms to suit me. I’d have one if i could find the right deal. Although like all Ebikes, i’ve seen a fair few horror stories.

One of the big shops (might’ve been Sigma or Tredz, but I’ve been looking at too many places recently) has up to 36months @ 0%

JE James used to do 4 years 0% (finished paying for my 2019 Kenevo a few months ago), but alas no more ☹️

I put up a couple of links to Sigma a couple of days ago with 20% off and page was showing 0% finance. Worth a try

I put up a couple of links to Sigma a couple of days ago with 20% off and page was showing 0% finance. Worth a try

They do that… they show 0% but when you go through it it’s only over say 24 months.

I ideally wanted 36.

When you click on the Tredz one there is a 36 month option in the drop down box

Yeah found that on there now… thanks…. Still not 100% on the Specialized due to issues a mate had and had to reject his after multiple motor failures in first 5 weeks.

TBH the more i read and more i think, i’m leaning towards just lobbing an external dropper post on the Liv.

We have had and still have a few Turbo Levos from 2017 and later. Sold the first one on and my old one on to the same guy who rides local and they are still going strong. Both daughters have 2018 carbon comps one of which Abigale and her dad have given it some right hammer. Its only had a battery which was replaced after a recall one came back faulty. We have 2 2022 ones which replaced the older ones, both bought second hand at huge discounts with transferable warranty and a SL which doesn’t get a lot of use.

You only tend to hear about the faulty ones from any brand. The majority that are happy and not having any problems are out there enjoying them.

I damaged a rear XX1 AXS rear mech a couple of weeks ago and SRAM weren’t interested in helping out with a new one even though you couldn’t buy their part to repair it. Didn’t even try Specialized as it was my fault, even though I don’t think the part broken is fit for purpose. Guy on here pointed me to an aftermarket, Ratio Products, part that looks sturdier, fitted and now its in the spare mech box. Its not going to stop me using SRAM even though it the second mech I’ve broken the cage on

I hear you absolutely. I certainly won’t be deciding anything today…. Although i debated clicking the button on Tredz earlier.. lol.

I’m not usually one to debate purchases, i’m normally in or out…. this one is making me go hmmmm more than usual.

I did just realise the Specialized is a mullet, which actually makes it way higher up the list for me, once you then add in SRAM brakes and Fox bouncy bits… the Specialized is topping my list for sure.

Forecast for the Peak tomorrow is showers and I’m not even sure if and where we are riding but if we are out and about and see you we will have an S3 and an S4 you could throw a leg over.

Starting in Hope. The rest, is a mystery to me 😀

Every rides a mystery 😉

I thought the Trek hire shop was in Bamford

You may well be right…

https://bikegarage.co.uk/

I wasn’t aware they were/are different places 😀