Ah nice Digby – that’ll save me going on a training course 😉

(Just ordered that book you recommended by the way, as well as the companion “Avalanche Essentials: A Step by Step System for Safety and Survival” and “Avalanche!: Understand and Reduce Risks from Avalanches” – probably more than I need but all looked very interesting).

wow – that’s some pretty comprehensive reading material you’ve got lined up there GrahamS.

I look forward to a review! 😉

@Digby, thanks excellent programme which I believe affects a few STW-ers very personally

@jambalaya – yes, I was very aware of that.

I thought the program was pretty good on the whole: it thankfully managed to avoid the over-dramatic style all to common with these kind of ‘freak weather’ programs whilst still being poignant, moving & informative.

Yup, I’m glad I watched that. Thanks for the heads-up, Digby.

Yay! Booked. Going to La Rosiere on 1st February with my Dad. It was probably over 20 years since I last skied with him.

Ahhh! Very nice. Wanted to go there (and St Foy) for a while. Enjoy!

That was an interesting programme, thanks for the heads up.

Very moving, too. The effect it has had on Tom Chesters’ parents is so visible – so very sad.

Came across this today http://chamconditions.blogspot.fr/. Have to say I’m more on the side of these kinds of reports than the STWers rubbishing them, who are probably IT managers in Surrey 😛

I wasn’t rubbishing them, just referencing an earlier post by steveomcd that kind of was – he’s not an IT manager from Surrey either, though I wonder if the reports are harming his business (chalet owner)?

Here’s another cham ski blog: http://www.lornecameron.com/

Saw it on fb – a couple of friends pop up in it every so often.

Man this is making me itching to get out there.

Does anyone have any last minute trip tips, or has that been covered somewhere in this thread already? Good places to find cheap deals etc.

I can see how it would be frustrating for steveo. He’s selling the backcountry experience, so negative press will affect him. Yes, there’s a weak layer in the snowpack; yes caution is needed; yes, the balance of risk and draw of the fresh snow is a tricky one, and yes it’s important for this message to be broadcast.

But the media can’t help sensationalising – because readers love a sensation There’s a balance between “When will these extreme sports fanatics learn to stay away from the French Alps?” (actual headline in national press from a few years ago) and “please be extra careful, because it’s more dangerous than usual and people who aren’t being careful (and even some who are) are dying.”

I went for a backcountry week in the middle of BC a few years ago with a similarly sketchy snowpack. The skiing wasn’t all time amazing, we kept to low angle stuff and trees, but it was great fun and hugely preferable to the other options of a) staying at home or b) a cold death, suffocating under under tons of snow.

We got out last minute deal off Igluski – £360 for flight, transfers and catered chalet inc wine in La Plagne. It was basic but the food was nice and well located.

if you can fly from Gatwick and book reeeeeaaaallly last minute it gets even cheaper. Some people in our chalet had paid under £300.

Worth looking at Crystal as well, we got a good cheap B+B deal to Mayrhofen last year (not sure how the snow is in Austria at the mo).

nedrapier – yup, the press has a lot to answer for!

There’s a balance between “When will these extreme sports fanatics learn to stay away from the French Alps?” (actual headline in national press from a few years ago) and “please be extra careful, because it’s more dangerous than usual and people who aren’t being careful (and even some who are) are dying.”

Spot on.

Yes there’s a lot of hype around at the moment, and much of it is just that, but then there’s the need to say to a lot of people, OK, so just because you’ve been to a ski shop and bought some phattt powdah plankz and some “all mountain” boots, doesn’t mean you should be dropping in anywhere you like. (Ditto snowboardists)

Knowledge is the key to both avoiding the unnecessary hype AND staying safe while having fun!

Disclaimer – Am a full on slack country afficionado, only usually going properly beyond the ropes on guide days.

Snowboardists are more awesoms… Anyway, can you people going to the Frenchy alps stop supplying snow updates, I leave for Mayrhofen on Saturday and it’s a bit……….well mediocre at the moment 🙁

Was perfectly skiable at the weekend, but was better up above 150er Tux than down near Horbergbahn, and I think it snowed since. Didn’t do Kaltenbach. Zell am Ziller was a bit scrapy, but nice up Königsleiten, and the flat blue above Gerlos.

Off to Dolomites in 2 weeks. I hear they got all the snow.

I’ve seen a pic today that shows some lush pow in that Ste Foy place.
Three days ’til Austria for me 🙂

Big Rantette at snow+rock/Burton follows:

I bought a Burton [ak] Stagger jacket last season. [ak] is supposed to be Burton’s high end, Goretex, nasty conditions, 20K+ waterproof stuff:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4EKwtmy15U[/video]

Seemed like a really nice jacket. Was chuffed with it. But during my first week of wearing it we stopped for lunch on a sleety day and noticed that the jacket was absolutely soaking wet and hanging down heavily. Basically I looked like a drowned rat.

Inside it I was still dry. The laminate was obviously doing its job, but the outside fabric of the jacket was saturated, heavy and wasn’t beading at all. Like a really old jacket that has totally lost its DWR coating – except this was brand new. 😯

So anyway, in November of this season I decided to take it into snow+rock where I bought it and see what they had to say (within a year of buying it and well within the Lifetime Warranty of the jacket).

At this stage it seems to me it is a manufacturing fault and for some reason the jacket just didn’t get a factory DWR coating at all because just spraying some water on it you can see it soak in rather than bead.

The S+R girl I speak to seems very sympathetic and agrees a brand new £300 jacket should perform much better than that.

Agrees to send it off to “send it for assessment” which will take at least a month.

(A week later I get a call saying they forgot to ask me to sign something so could I pop in then they’d definitely send it off. Grr.)

I get a phone call again after a few weeks and the (very apologetic) says that the team has looked at it and reckon it’s just because the jacket is dirty and it needs reproofing. I explain to her that it did this from new and it can’t be that dirty I’ve probably worn it for less than a month in total since I bought it.

She says that the assessment team will only proceed if I give permission for them to wash and reproof it to see if that helps. I reluctantly agree. I’ll have to wait till after Christmas now.

After Christmas – no word from them.

So this week the missus was near the shop so I asked her to call in and ask about it for me: “Yes, we have it right here.” 😯

It hasn’t been touched. They’ve done nothing.

Bloke then gives her a number of excuses:
– “it was probably getting wet from the inside” (nope)
– “what conditions did he use it in?” (erm.. snowy?)
– “all jackets will wet through eventually” (she points out that this one doesn’t bead at all and even her ancient £50 Helly Hansen beads)
– “he wore it with a cotton t-shirt underneath” (can’t say any other jacket I’ve had has died due to this).

She gets him to try splashing some water on it. It soaks straight in. Guy finally says “Okay. You need to take it home, wash it, tumble dry it and that will definitely restore it.”

(Another guy in the queue confides to her that he worked in an outdoor shop for XX years and this is complete bollocks)

So… we get it home. It gets washed in some Grangers Wash (no DWR just straight wash as the S+R guy said, no fast spin) then tumbled on a low heat as per instructions.

Result: absolutely no difference at all to the beading (what a surprise) and two teeth of the main zip fell off while it was being tumble dried.

WTF? 👿

Am I being unreasonable to think that a £300 “performance” jacket should be usable in the snow (even with a cotton on underneath it), should bead water off it and should survive being washed according to the care label without bits falling off??

Top ranting! Nah I’d be seriously annoyed in your shoes. Always annoying when you go for a premium option and it turns out to be anything but. 🙁

Rubbish. I’d be cross, and not be happy being told that I’d been a sweaty, filthy pig and to go home and wash my clothes.

Burton have got some strong points, but outerwear isn’t one of them, in my experience.

They make stuff that’s tuned to looking and feeling great when you’re in the shop, but not delivering when you need it to.

I’d be cross, and not be happy being told that I’d been a sweaty, filthy pig and to go home and wash my clothes

Thing is the missus, who knows my smell better than most, agreed that wasn’t dirty at all. Apparently the guy was pointing at a couple of grubby marks by the pockets and saying “See?” like that was causing the entire DWR to fail?!?

Burton have got some strong points, but outerwear isn’t one of them, in my experience.

Is that a recent thing? They used to be good. My old Burton Tempest jacket that this replaced was a bit tattered and dated, but still going pretty strong after nearly a decade of use on snow and as a wet weather jacket. And my Burton Cargo pants are great.

That’s kinda why I’d stuck with them.

@ GrahamS – I’d be very dissapointed if I’d received that level of poor response from Snow & Rock – I’m kindof surprised as I’d always had good service from the Sheffield shop (before it burnt down).

But I gave up with most snowboard ‘specific’ clothing years ago. As I was buying a new jacket etc almost every year! 🙁

The majority of snowboard clothing is the epitome of ‘style over substance’ unfortunately with most items being too warm/padded/bulky but with insufficient weather proofing – leaving you damp & chilly, and some stuff just fell apart 🙁

Pretty happy with my Westbeach jacket. Has lasted a few trips now with no signs of wear and tear, and I’ve not re proofed it yet with no issues. They were as cheap as £70 from SP at one point (not where I got it from).

It’s this one:

http://www.skatedeluxe.ch/en/westbeach-ridge-runner-snowboard-jacket-heli-red_p37303

Westbeach was one of the brands whose kit just fell apart for me – you were clearly luckier in your choice:

During a particular cold spell (-20 celsius) in BC I was acute aware of ‘Stephen & the Twins’ retreating inside my body every time I picked up a bit of speed on the board – felt like I’d left my flies wide open … turned out the stitching in the trouser/crotch dept had ripped leaving a large hole in the ‘tinter’ vicinity. 😳 I would often spend the evenings sewing each new hole back up and covering with ‘duct tape’ …!

I’d be funkin livid at both the quality and the service. £70/8k O’Neill from Tkmax is better than that.

Funnily enough my first proper snowboard jacket was a Westbeach, waaay back in the day. It was a fine jacket too.

I actually considered going back to Westbeach instead of getting the Stagger, but Westbeach had gone all fashionable multi-colour clown-outfit last year which really doesn’t suit me. (That Heli Red above looks alright though)

As a jacket my Stagger seems really good in terms of features, comfort, weight and breathability etc. But if it gets soaked by snow then what is the point in it?

I’ll be pushing for a refund, especially now the zip is broke too.

Poor service there Graham.

I still my Westbeach jacket which is now 10 years old. It’s been washed and reproofed after every season and the colours are now back in fashion.

Burton have got some strong points, but outerwear isn’t one of them, in my experience.

Oi! my Burton coat is fantastic! Was £80 i think and this week I’ve only needed a merino base layer under it. No sign of wear and I’ve worn it more than just on holidays too.

Aaaanyway.. after my quite negative post earlier this week, things have worked out brilliantly, thanks to a powder day with Rob (singletrackmind) and some chums from my chalet, its been utterly awesome 😀

Wooo! pow!

Burton – fine! did say “in my experience”

which was: a pair of gloves which didn’t last anywhere near as long as Levels, an AK jacket which had a lovely feeling face fabric (and MAGNETS , but lasted hardly any time at all before wearing through, and a pair of boots which went 2 weeks of hard use before the liner packed out. Faff and discomfort for a further week and bit before I called it a day: Even with a pair of socks folded under the tongue, I still had to cinch the laces so ticht the outer started crushing my toes.

Malamutes, ME, Rab, Noronna, much happier.

And TREW gear. Great bibs.

@Graham that’s very poor, I would push back along the lines of jacket not suitable for stated purchase, not of merchantable quality. I buy a lot from S&R and I’d be disappointed with that service. I don’t know the Burton brand that well as we’ve only had some kids stuff from them which I have to say was ok as we got it cheap.

Anyway bottom line is you can reproof the jacket yourself with Nikwax products but only after you’ve given up ranting st shop.

This thread has largely passed me by again this year. The more I read, the more I want to do more skiing. Curse the expensive nature of the sport…

Am I allowed to be annoying and plug stuff briefly?
A good mate of mine is starting making some lovely handmade timber skis, and has applied for a grant – check out the short videos on here and consider voting for Lonely Mountain Skis if you think it sounds like a cool project.
Only takes a second, like.

http://www.shell-livewire.org/awards/grand-ideas-awards

Malamutes, ME, Rab, Noronna, much happier

Malamutes are great aren’t they? (if you have the right/wrong shaped feet that is – although i did have to cut out the internal ‘cinch’ buckle/loop, as it caused foot pain when my bindings were cranked up tight)

Over the years my trials & errors in clothing & kit has resulted in:

Arc’teryx, Rab, Sweet Protection, TNF & Howies merinos (8 yrs old and still rockin’) … i.e. a GORETEX shell outershell with requisite layers.

Alpine/Mountaineering stuff seems to work well without the bulk of many ‘snow sport’ specific clothing – especially when hiking/touring. Watching ski sunday the other week, I couldn’t help but notice that the lovely Jenny Jones had to strap her huge bulky snowboard jacket to the outside of her rucksack when spliting in NZ …

Off to Tignes tomorrow for a week ….. (sorry Flashy), made worse by the 11 days in Flaine in March!

New skis and new boots, hope they’re good otherwise I’m going to be very disappointed girly.

Anyone want some K2 crossfire skis?

Au revoir

Hi All – the avalanche risk reporting thing is frustrating for me as an avalanche/mountain professional (I’m an International Mountain Leader who trains people in avalanche safety) rather than anything much to do with the chalet business – although I’m getting slightly frustrated reassuring clients that they are going to be OK on their ski holiday despite what they’ve read in the Telegraph.

Avalanche risk changes rapidly. It would be entirely normal for the risk level to go from level 1 (“Low”) to 4 (“High”) and back to, say, 2 (“Moderate”) within 3 or 4 days as new snow arrives and then settles. So a hysterical newspaper article (which is probably 2 or 3 days out of date by the time it’s written) talking about “dangerous avalanche conditions” is almost entirely useless in deciding whether or not conditions are going to be safe for your ski holiday in 2 weeks time.

“Most Deadly Start to the Season in the Swiss Alps in a gazillion years” – well, maybe. But how do you define the start of the season? Why is the grouping of incidents to the “Swiss Alps” relevant? (The Swiss Alps is a huge area and avalanche conditions may well be wildly different from one area to another). If there were no avalanche deaths in Italy, France and Austria, then maybe for the Alps as a whole it’s actually the safest start to the season in a gazillion years (not suggesting this is the case!) yet this headline makes people think it’s a really bad situation. From memory (haven’t fact-checked) the start of last season almost certainly saw more deaths in the French Alps than this year. The worst season for avalanche deaths in a long time was 2010-2011 (which was actually a very poor snow year).

The widely-reported “weak layer” in the snowpack is actually a pretty normal early-season phenomenon – it’s caused by a thin snowpack and cold weather, which is pretty-much what you’d expect to find in December. The effect was, admittedly, quite pronounced this year because we had a lot of snow in November, then cold, dry weather in December. Nevertheless, it’s pretty normal for the time of year. This type of weak layer (depth hoar) does normally remain in the snowpack for a long time and could therefore be expected to remain a worry throughout the season. In fact, though, some un-seasonably mild weather and a decent amount of snowfall finally arriving seem to have reduced the risk quicker than expected. The avalanche risk in my local area (Tarentaise Valley / Savoie) is currently level 2 – 3. The “3” at altitude is due to windslab created by strongish winds over the last day or so. The early-season depth-hoar layer is considered to have stabilised for the most part, although it’s still worth taking account of when making decisions.

This, of course, is my opinion and is based on my interpretation of the local avalanche forecasting, plus my own observation of the snow and weather conditions when I’m out in the mountains every day.

Make your own decisions – don’t base your judgement on some weeks-old article you read in a newspaper or on a website. Don’t base it on what I’m telling you either, I could well be wrong!

The best source of information is the local avalanche forecast, usually updated every 24 hours at least (anything older than that is pretty-much useless). You can find avalanche forecasts (and other info) for most places in Europe at http://www.avalanches.org

EDIT: Interestingly, having just checked some statistics at http://www.anena.org (French avalanche reporting/training body), 2010-2011 actually came out as quite a “safe” year in terms of number of deaths in the end. I remember it as being really bad because of a number of widely-reported accidents in my local area where several people were killed in single avalanche incidents. So I guess I’m as vulnerable to over-blown reporting as anyone!

And just to lighten the tone – taken on Wednesday. It was pretty good. We’re not dead.

Well said, Stevo.

Years back when I was a seasonner, I knew from local conditions and from reading the weather report for the valley where would be the safest places to go on different days and if I was in any doubt, I’d go and pay a visit to the pisteur’s huts. Still, I was far from an expert, but being in the same valley for several years gives you an insight that you just cannot get on a week or two each year.

As a punter, I am not in touch with the specific local conditions, so if going properly off-piste, I’d be going with a guide.

Edit: You might not be dead, but I’d kill to get freshies like that again 😉

Morzine tomorrow. Thankfully the conditions look better than they were last week!

Nice ‘rooster’ stevomcd! 😉

Has anyone been to Levi, Finland?

We fancy going as a bit of a break to ski, rather than a skiing holiday. Hoping to experience somewhere new and different, maybe to catch sight of the Northern lights.
However the very cold temperatures are quite off putting. Having experienced very low temps in Canada on a couple of occasions it was an unpleasant experience trying to ski, when bits of you are either frozen up or not working.