The return of coal mining. Bet Arthur Scargill is chuffed

I wonder who in the tories has interests linked to the Cayman Island company who owns the proposed coal mine?

Cayman isles company owns the Cumbrian coal mine

People keep talking about jobs, but does anyone think these mining jobs will actually be good jobs? I mean, ones that will give good quality of life and create transferrable useful skills for the modern world?

Molgrips,the jobs will be skilled and well paid but not particularly great working conditions although with modern safety standards not as unsafe as some make out. Trouble is there won’t be many of them and will generally be limited as experience or qualifications will be needed.

I wonder who in the tories has interests linked to the Cayman Island company who owns the proposed coal mine?

Probably no one. And as your link points out EMR Capital is Australian owned.

The initial driving political force behind the Woodhouse Colliery proposal has been the Labour-LibDem controlled county council which unanimously approved the proposal over 3 years ago.

The reason nothing much has happened since then is that the Westminster government has been dragging its feet over the issue, it initially refused to get involved:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50274212

“Plans for the UK’s first deep coal mine in decades will go ahead after the government decided not to intervene.

Cumbria county councillors gave it the go-ahead in March, but this sparked a number of objections, including a call for government scrutiny.

However, ministers have now said the council should take the decision.

Councillors have ratified their support for the plans.”

Work was expected to start nearly 3 years ago. Also from the above link:

“It is hoped work could begin on the site in early 2020, with coal production starting about two years later.”

Two years later the Labour-LibDem controlled county council was still backing the proposal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55871503

“Cumbria councillors told BBC News there were no good planning grounds for them to refuse permission for the mine, near Whitehaven, and said it would help to diversify local employment prospects.

The government’s chief planning officer Joanna Averley defended Mr Jenrick’s decision not to over-rule their consent for the mine.”

The government’s position was that this decision had nothing to do with them. Also from the above link:

“And in this case, the decision was that this was a decision for local determination, and the application was approved by the local authority… a decision for local democracy.”

Then 18 months ago the government decided to intervene and put a temporary halt on the decision made by the Labour-LibDem controlled council:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/11/robert-jenrick-orders-public-inquiry-into-cumbria-coalmine

“A controversial new coalmine planned for Cumbria appears to have been put on hold.

The local government secretary, Robert Jenrick, had previously refused to intervene but on Thursday night he said he would take responsibility for the scheme away from the local authority”.

So on that basis I doubt that the proposal is driven by Tory Party links with the Australian company behind the scheme.

Edit: The only possible reason that I can think for the government to give its approval for a scheme which is clearly so unacceptable under COP27 commitments is to keep Northern Research Group Tory MPs sweet.

If you step back, arguably the worst thing about this, is the message it sends out both globally and domestically about how serious we are, both as a government and a nation, about climate change and the use of fossil fuels. It’s the equivalent of buying a huge gas-guzzling V8 for your half mile commute while your neighbour is cycling the same route to work, a big two fingers to everyone else.

If you expect other countries to commit to any sort of positive action on fossil fuel use and climate change, you have to be seen to walk the walk yourselves. In that context, nit-picking about the details is of limited relevance.

What we should be doing is investing in sustainable energy production and creating new jobs in that way.

Sorry, I know this is all glaringly obvious and probably a repetition of stuff that’s been said already multiple times.

What we should be doing is investing in sustainable energy production and creating new jobs in that way.

Which is fine until the sun sets and the wind isn’t blowing. Wind and solar currently meeting 1% of demand. Gas 57%. Coal 3%. Imports 15%.

I call it a failure of energy policy when we rely on imports to keep the lights on.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

People keep talking about jobs, but does anyone think these mining jobs will actually be good jobs? I mean, ones that will give good quality of life and create transferrable useful skills for the modern world?

Of course they will be. Many will be though jobs but good jobs.
All skills are transferable and useful skills. So not sure what you mean tbh.

Wind and solar currently meeting 1% of demand. Gas 57%. Coal 3%. Imports 15%.

That is the last ten minute average. You are right – at night time, as like in the last ten minutes, solar energy drops to zero. And on windy days wind produces more energy than on calm days.

But you are very wrong imo to challenge the claim that “What we should be doing is investing in sustainable energy production and creating new jobs in that way”.

We can and must wean ourselves off fossil fuel, the proposed Woodhouse Colliery does nothing to help achieve that aim.

And contrary to your cynical dismissal a great deal has already been achieved, precisely because of a strong determination.

2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources.

By the end of 1991, renewables accounted for just 2% of all electrical generation in the UK. By 2013 this figure had risen to 14.6%.

2017 placed Britain into the position as one of Europe’s leaders in the growth of renewable energy generation. Only countries like Iceland, Norway and Sweden, who had more established renewable schemes, used more on a relative scale.

In 2019, zero-carbon electricity production overtook fossil fuels for the first time, while on 17 August renewable generation hit the highest share ever at 85.1% (wind 39%, solar 25%, nuclear 20% and hydro 1%).

And also note :

2020 also saw UK have its longest run of coal-free power, with a total of 68 days between 10 April and 16 June. This is the longest coal-free period since the industrial revolution, which began in the mid-1700s!

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

Which makes us ask the question ‘how then can they justify the price gouging?’ I know ‘international markets ‘ etc etc but has the wind got more costly? It does make you king sick.
EDIT: the Crown owns 12 miles out to sea from the shore and they get rent from everything passing over it. I’m sure the king’s not sick, quite the reverse, he’ll be gobbling it up.

The Swedish plant H2 (to use hydrogen instead of coke) is planned to be ready from 2025, for industrial production. This is a collaborative effort with a wind turbine manufacturer.

There’s other players also racing to be ‘first’ in this area.

There is also the potential of improving our recycling streams with electric arc furnaces, though I doubt this would meet domestic demand.

Which makes us ask the question ‘how then can they justify the price gouging?’ I know ‘international markets ‘ etc etc but has the wind got more costly? It does make you king sick.

It’s the ‘market’, your buying in leccy not wind.

I think it’s a cultural thing, the population seem to accept things that when you look make no sense, blind acceptance of is what is rather than what could be,should be.

Anyway back ta mine r lad :-).

Which is fine until the sun sets and the wind isn’t blowing.

Yawn. Not this old trope again. What’s your solution then? Keep burning stuff?

What we need is more renewables and lots more grid scale storage.

Not this old trope again

Made famous by Donald Trump, a man who understood a thing or two about science.

According to irc’s gridwatch link solar power produced 3% of the UK’s electricity in the last ten minutes and wind also 3%

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

So quite a bit more than last night’s 1% for both combined. Although last night was an exceptionally windless night I noticed. And not very sunny.

Its obvious from those graphs that if we had enough grid storage to flatten the evening demand peaks we’d stop burning massive amounts of gas.

Grid scale storage? Pump storage is the best we have at the moment. How many valleys do you want to flood? Current capacity for UK puimp storage is about 30Gwh which is less than an hour’s demand in the evening.

Plus even pump hydro isn’t 100% efficient. Around 80%.

The correct answer for electricity is nuclear as the French proved decades ago. With gas and pump storage to ramp up and down.

In any case electricity is the easy bit. Most gas is used for heating. Winter peak heat demand is equivelent to 197GWh. Nearly 5 times peak electricity demand. Even if we stopped using gas for electricity (we can’t we need it to balance wind) we would still need huge amounts for heating.

Peak Demands For Natural Gas

The correct answer for electricity is nuclear as the French proved decades ago.

France gets approximately 20% of it’s energy needs from renewables, why is that better than the UK which at 39% gets almost twice as much of its energy needs from renewables?

Is there something that I am missing?

Energy security: France takes emergency measures to boost renewables

According to that ^^ article wind currently produces 8% of France’s energy needs, and they are now urgently looking at increasing that capacity significantly because of the growing crises.

Wind now accounts for approximately 23-25% of the UK’s energy, so France would have to instantly treble what it currently producing from wind to match the UK.

Current capacity for UK puimp storage is about 30Gwh

Well for starters we currently have around 30GWh of battery storage in the UK’s EV car parc which is only increasing so lets tap into some of that for peak demand management. We’ll also need grid battery storage. Also we will be massively increasing the capacity of wind and solar which will mean even on days of low wind or sun there will be enough lectricity to run “undelayable” requirements. All the tech is available we just need to get it deployed.

As to home heating, heat pumps are the obvious solution we just need to find a way to make them more affordable.

Nuclear may have a part to play but IMHO its too expensive and takes too long to build the plants.

Global coal use will apparently reach a record level this year, and profits for the largest coal producers have tripled:

https://worldnewsera.com/news/finance/stock-market/coal-profits-triple-as-demand-surges/

The world’s largest coal mining companies tripled their profits in 2022 to reach a total of more than $97bn, defying expectations for an industry that was thought to be in terminal decline.

Cumbria coal mine plan thrown out by High Court judge

https://news.sky.com/story/coal-mine-high-court-judge-throws-out-project-in-whitehaven-west-cumbria-13213816

Mr Justice Holgate said in his judgment: “The assumption that the proposed mine would not produce a net increase in greenhouse gas emissions, or would be a net zero mine, is legally flawed.”

I really doubt this project was ever designed to actually happen.

You create a project that appears viable, do the work, get permits blah blah blah. You sell it for a lot of money to someone who thinks it will happen – you’re a winner.  The new operator discovers it’s actually a bit rubbish economically, and mothballs the idea, soaking the loss into their overall profit /loss and getting their money back via paying less tax . The jobs never existed in reality.

“Wind now accounts for approximately 23-25% of the UK’s energy,”

I think you are confusing energy and electricity. Wind solar and hydro are around 6% with around 3/4 being gas and oil.

“In 2022, the United Kingdom’s total energy supply (TES) was primarily composed of natural gas, contributing 39.4%, followed by oil at 34.8%, nuclear power at 8.1%, and coal at 3.2%. Biofuels and waste contributed 8.9%, while other renewable sources such as wind, solar, and hydro collectively accounted for 5.6% of the energy mix.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom

Last time I looked we weren’t using coal for transportation other than a few bits of nostalgic railway. Most oil consumption is transport related. I think it’s generally accepted that home energy use is what’s being discussed.

Nuclear definitely has a role so long as a government wants to pull it’s thumb out of its arse and get on with it. Battery storage, wind and solar ftw. If uncle Bill can get it together traveling wave reactors could be a big part of the solution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPowerhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower

Gas central heating is the easiest one to cut. Insulate Britain aren’t wrong. Insulate your walls with 120mm of wood fiber and you’ll reduce the heat loss through them by 60%+ assuming you have an insulated cavity wall already.

Insulate your walls with 120mm of wood fiber and you’ll reduce the heat loss through them by 60%+ assuming you have an insulated cavity wall already.

curious about this. have shied away from cavity wall insulation due to stories about damp etc. can you elaborate Ed?

I think the picture tells most of the story. What’s missing is what covers it all up; usually plaster board or wood paneling. I’ve used a wooden frame fixed to the wall with all thread rods in chemical cement for walls that will be loaded, or screws and dowels for walls that aren’t going to be loaded. If you are worried about the dew point falling in the middle of the insulation thickness than add a vapour barrier membrane on the inside under the plasterboard.

If the existing wall suffers damp other than condensation other insulating materials which won’t rot are perhaps better – polyester wool for example, it’s much nicer and easier to work with too but less eco.

Huh. Ta.

Well did say you were curious and asked elaborate. 🙂

I haven’t shyed away from cavity wall insulation because those are insulating bricks with  no cavity with similar thermal resistance to a cavity wall with insulation in the cavity. But both are only a third of the thermal resistance needed if you want to cut off the gas. So I’ve added some insulation on the inside.