Or maybe they’re all vegetarian…

Well, I am. But to say that, because we can’t ban all animal cruelty, we shouldn’t ban any is ridiculous.

A false dichotomy.

Earlier I mentioned our unexploded bomb of a horse… First time in the field with her mate after 5 months this morning…and this was her winding down after bucking and standing vertically…

[video]http://youtu.be/vxvR8PqGXzA[/video]

Well, I am. But to say that, because we can’t ban all animal cruelty, we shouldn’t ban any is ridiculous.

Well, I have no real issue with your position then. My gripe is with people who would castigate racing, yet are happy to support the meat industry. I’m not massively comfortable with the perceived animal welfare of either industry, but I accept that i have no room to criticise one whilst ignoring the other. I do enjoy eating meat, and I like my shoes to be leather. Therefore I have no moral imperative to criticise those who enjoy horse racing; I would not seek to ban something on the flimsy justification of animal cruelty whilst I facilitate animal cruelty on my part due to my fondness of sausages and bacon and steak. My enjoyment is no more or less valid than anyone else’s.

false dichotomy

Not at all. Moral consistency and the avoidance of hypocrisy.

One very happy horse you have there spooky. Lovely to see.

Not at all. Moral consistency and the avoidance of hypocrisy.

There is no need to say that we should not make any changes because some people eat some meat.

Changes to legislation surrounding horse racing are not impossible for that reason. There is no binary choice between not caring for any animals, and, completely protecting all animals from harm for, or by, a human for entertainment or consumption.

Therefore it is a false dichotomy.

Yes, that was my point too – I’m a vegetarian but I occasionally eat fish and have leather shoes. It’s not an all-or-none thing, and especially when it’s only for entertainment then the cruelty is hard to defend.

If it’s not an all or none thing, why don’t you give up the things you do that are needlessly cruel rather than point at other people?

That would be neither all or none.

I do 😀

Did I point?

Maybe they could sell the horses for meat and then at least they wouldn’t go to waste? Seems a bit of a shame.

Possibly quite tough though with all the exercise?

My point is, why if the the horse loves running with a midget on its back, does it need said midget to whip it mercilessly to get it to run? If the animal does not want to make progress using humane methods, then it shouldn’t be doing what it does. Yes I like meat as well.

Maybe they could sell the horses for meat and then at least they wouldn’t go to waste? Seems a bit of a shame.

The dead horses have already contributed to human enjoyment, no need to overdo it… (and I believe glue factories/dogfood manufactureers have first dibs anyway.

false dichotomy

I never suggested that one could not change horse racing because the meat industry exists. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy inherent in a viewpoint that criticises racing whilst supporting the MUCH CRUELLER meat industry by continuing to eat meat and wear leather shoes. At least a lot of race horses actually survive and are relatively well looked after, and when they do injure themselves they are dispatched humanely and quickly. (I’ve had the misfortune to witness this first hand). I’ve also been in an abatoir; If I had to come back as a racehorse or a cow, It wouldn’t be a tough choice.

why if the the horse loves running with a midget on its back, does it need said midget to whip it mercilessly to get it to run?

Because horses like running with their mates; they need encouragement to put their head forward. I’m no racing fan, but ‘whipping mercilessly’ is somewhat inflamatory language. I’m fairly sure that there’s rules against that sort of thing. I think that the racing industry would argue that a jockey’s whip is a ‘humane’ method, and more effective than a carrot on a stick out front, a la loony tunes…

http://www.thepja.co.uk/members-info/regulatory/useofwhip/

While I’m not a massive fan of jump racing I do ride and there is more to the use of a whip than simply making your horse run faster. It is one of your aids but is normally used after legs, reigns and seat. I’ve no idea if Jockeys talk to their horses but I guess it is too noisy?

I never suggested that one could not change horse racing because the meat industry exists. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy inherent in a viewpoint that criticises racing whilst supporting the MUCH CRUELLER meat industry by continuing to eat meat and wear leather shoes. At least a lot of race horses actually survive and are relatively well looked after, and when they do injure themselves they are dispatched humanely and quickly. (I’ve had the misfortune to witness this first hand). I’ve also been in an abatoir; If I had to come back as a racehorse or a cow, It wouldn’t be a tough choice.

This.

Of course the racing industry would say it’s alright…. I’m lucky/unfortunate to live right in the middle of horse racing mecca and you see plenty of animals with marks to their hides/ribs, it’s not on.

It’s not even a sport, more an excuse for folk to bet money, wear cheap suits, look like they’ve slept in a bath full of wotsits, drink champagne and then head into town for a night out.

Load of pish.

it’s not on.

Can’t say I disagree with that. That’s a bit different from the ‘ban it all’ calls from some posters though.

I’m not a “ban it all” person, but it’s surely not beyond the wit of man to create a horseracing event where the participants don’t regularly die. Perhaps better regulation of jumps and course, stricter standards about whips, maybe even longer term to breed tougher but slower horses.

create a horseracing event where the participants don’t regularly die

It’s called flat racing, and it’s (even more) dull than national hunt or steeplechases. And seeing as these animals exist to entertain, I can’t see it happening. Horses still die on the flat though; I’ve seen a horse shatter its front leg galloping up a slight rise. As for breeding tougher horses; fine idea in principle; but seriously, could you imagine any way that would actually work? I suggested it earlier in the thread as an intelectual exercise, and I can’t.

You could have Cob racing. But some would still break legs and you’re back to the old problem of needing to kill all the existing horses which rely on racing for their survival.

back in the mid 90’s I did a lot of work with Bristol University Veterinarian School, in particular the Horse treatment people. IIRC their take on it was for most animals it’s possible to treat. The problem is not with ^ frisky horse post op as you can immobilize the limb. The big problem is dealing with a confused heavy disorientated horse as it comes round from the anesthetic. Bristol had a padded “cell” where the floor was a roll in roll out operating table. The next problem is the long rehabilitation period. All in all it’s the prohibitive cost of the specialized treatment coupled with the fact a non racing race horse isn’t much use/resale value as they can bloody big and quite temperamental.