The new 'No Ad-Spoiling' Rule

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  • The new 'No Ad-Spoiling' Rule
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’m going to miss greeting that Shimano Silent Clutch hub when it makes another appearance 🙁

    nbt
    Member

    what new rule?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    This one

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ad-spoiling-new-rule-dont-do-it-its-very-annoying

    But legendary items like the Silent Clutch have their reputation enhanced, not spoiled, by their comments.

    cynic-al
    Member

    can’t find the silent clutch hub thread?

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    So what would happen if say, I spotted a pair of pro2/crest wheels in the adds for £280, but coincidentally posted a PSA in the Bike forum for CRC’s offer that undercuts that?

    How would you know its deliberate, or not?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I have occasionally posted on threads where the same item has appeared daily for months to try and get the OP to see that whatever they were doign it wasn’t working.

    There’s some low name jacket that’s been going up for weeks now and either it’s priced wrong or no one wants it but it keeps going on there.

    Same as that bike from Liverpool that just kept appearing for nearly a year.

    I wouldn;t just post ‘It’s £3 cheaper at CRC’ though.

    LoCo
    Member

    How about spoiling your own ad by not reading the link you posted to the product properly where it was cheaper on CRC, I may have done this with an XTR Shadow+ mech 😆

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    There is also a case for advising the seller. Some are new to selling or the trade, and aren’t aware of what price point will trip a sale.

    I understand Marks’s point TBH, and mine is slightly different – that us more expierienced people could politely suggest a price point that’d get the item shifted – as was recently a case for a frame on the classfieds – pitched too high, advice given, price lowered, frame sold.

    I’d be worried about doing that now, becuase I may be misunderstood and might recieve a ban. :-/

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    There’s some low name jacket that’s been going up for weeks now and either it’s priced wrong or no one wants it but it keeps going on there.

    Same as that bike from Liverpool that just kept appearing for nearly a year.

    I wouldn;t just post ‘It’s £3 cheaper at CRC’ though.

    perhaps the fact these items aren’t selling pretty much underlines the point that theres no requirement for a white knight to intervene.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Given there are threads about frauds done on this forum – one this week about a repeated person who has done multiple here I wonder why STW have decided to target posts which point out items are over priced /available for new at a cheaper price rather than that issue or come up with a feedback system to try and minimise this.

    Still it is their forum and they can do as they please

    druidh
    Member

    Coz it’s easy

    parkesie
    Member

    Dont need to spoil most ads because frankly they are unreadable no pictures over priced non existent goods paypal gift only or go away type drivel.

    Classifieds have become pretty much unusable and its not because people point out that something is available cheaper. In fact if i was selling something and someone pointed that out id be great full and adjust my price if necessary, saves me looking like an arse whos trying to rip people off.

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Subscriber

    So, we’re not allowed public price negotiation then, is that it?

    Joe is offering a widget at price x, whereas shop b has it available for price y, where x > y.

    If I email Joe direct, then I’m undermining my bargaining position by not warning off other potential purchasers- they may not do their research and may offer x for the widget.

    I get that there’s spoilers and trolls out there, but you shouldn’t ban folk for telling the truth.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    maybe time for two classifieds forums.

    One for premier members to list items. Buyers have some (small) comfort that at least the members’ details are logged at ST towers.

    And a second “bear pit” where the chancers, spivs, liars, cheats and cynic-al can flaunt their wares 😉

    Cant say Im particularly impressed by the “no ad spoiling” rule. Afterall, people clogging up my classified forum with crap over-priced stuff is more an annoyance than the occasional mis-placed bleat by some goodie-two-shoes.

    jota180
    Member

    So, we’re not allowed public price negotiation then, is that it?

    As long as you start the post with “I could be interested but ……………”

    You wouldn’t be a spoiler 🙂

    soobalias
    Member

    classifieds has long since gone to the dogs – for that reason im out.

    or, i agree with Stoner

    bikebouy
    Member

    It’s about time they put in a rule, too many adverts get spoilt with

    “but you can..”
    “I wouldn’t pay that for that POS..”
    “You can buy that at XXX for £XXX cheaper..”

    If you don’t want the item, why bother commenting on it?

    Well done Mark et all, but I do wonder why they’ve had to do this in the first place..

    lank45
    Member

    In my opinion if someone is selling a second hand part for more than you can get it for new then as a community someone should chirp up. That’s the reason I signed up here, people helping each other, giving advice and making sure we don’t get ripped off by one another. But maybe I’ve missed the point somewhere…

    druidh
    Member

    What vinneyh says. If I offer a lower price via the forum, with a comment that I’ve seen it cheaper, am I going to get a ban? I thought that making all communication via the forum was to be encouraged.

    Junkyard
    Member

    but you can..”

    Agre unacceptable

    “I wouldn’t pay that for that POS..”

    Agre eand probably trolling

    “You can buy that at XXX for £XXX cheaper..”

    Surely that is just advice for both the buyer and the seller- I suppose it depends on the tone

    I dont get why we cannot have feedback to stop potential rip offs and we also cannot say that the item is a potential rip off [ cheaper new]

    I am not seeing the principle at work here tbh

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    Good grief!

    If you are interested in buying the widget then by all means negotiate to your hearts content. If you are not interested in buying then leave it alone. It’s quite simple. Let the market do the work. The buyer will pay what they are happy to pay.

    If you try any funny or ‘clever’ workarounds then we’ll just use our judgement and warn/ban anyway.

    The classifieds has NOT gone to the dogs. There’s hundreds of successful trades every week. There are occasional problems with people who simply don’t take the sensible precautions that to many of us seem obvious. There have been over 80 ads posted in the last 24 hours.

    Don’t use Paypal Gift unless you know the person you are paying. There’s members of my own family I wouldn’t use Paypal Gift for so why some people think it’s fine to send cash to a forum username with no protection at all is simply beyond me – it really is!

    Selling on our classifieds is easy and free. You just need to use some common sense to not look like a gullible fool either as a buyer or a seller.

    Those small ads that get posted on the boards in supermarkets!.. Do people go in with a sharpy and add comments like, “It’s less than this new in the baby wares aisle”?

    And who ‘patrols’ a classifieds forum when they don’t want to buy or sell something?

    This new rule? I’m pretty confident that the vast majority of classifieds users will welcome it. A minority of the users who seem to like to ‘patrol’ the classifieds and somehow think that they are white knights doing good, will not like it. I expect many more comments from that latter group to follow this post.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    What amazes me, is Mark has missed contentious issue of the ads on STW;

    a) posting a picture of a young woman with her t**s almost out
    b) posting a picture young woman in her T Shirt with the words “Road Kill” at the bottom

    Both of which preclude me from opening STW at work or (for a) at least) in front of my kids.

    And before you say it, I know logging in will exclude them, but I have to get there first…..

    jota180
    Member

    It’ll be a nightmare to police, they’d be better off locking all classified posts if they want to stop comments

    lank45
    Member

    I dont get why we cannot have feedback to stop potential rip offs and we also cannot say that the item is a potential rip off [ cheaper new]

    Agree completely, it stops us getting ripped off. Just because someone wouldn’t think to look at CRC, Evans etc… is not a reason to see people being ripped off.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    It’ll be a nightmare to police, they’d be better off locking all classified posts if they want to stop comments

    No it won’t. The seller hits ‘Report this’ when it happens to them. Easy!

    jota180
    Member

    No it won’t. The seller hits ‘Report this’ when it happens to them. Easy!

    But you’ll still be left with making a call on whether or not the seller’s appeal to the referee was indeed a foul or just the seller being a bit sensitive. More work that I guess you could do without?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Why aren’t you out catching rapists and murderers?

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    More work that I guess you could do without?

    One minute we don’t moderate enough the next there’s concern for our workload 🙂

    The truth is we’ve already been dealing with this when sellers have complained directly to us. There’s also been plenty of posts on the forum here from people who are annoyed by the practice. Today I just formalised it a bit.

    If you have no interest in the sale then please refrain from posting comments on the ad

    and this is evident how? Is it not reasonable to assume the respondent has viewed the ad as they are interested in the item, and may be using discounted pricing to haggle with an overoptimistic price? I’ve used this to haggle- if the OP wants to stick to the asking price fine I’ll buy it from CRC etc with a warranty, but I’ve also had sellers accept a lower offer as a result.

    I assume youre happy hosting multiple reposts of overpriced ads that clog up the board- Ive seen stuff re-posted 20 or 30 times with the same overoptimistic price. The OP is deluded, other sellers are getting pushed off the front pages, and youre paying to host it.

    Will this active policing the classifieds extend to scammers and fraudsters at any point? I’ve suggested in various “scammer” threads that posters have to have posted X number of posts in other areas before being allowed to use the classifieds, which limits classified use to active forum members, reduces spam and opportunistic cross posters and/or increases total STW use depending on your point of view. I know this is technically possible as it is applied in other forums.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Another rule we ought to have is “no linking to pinkbike ads”

    Although common sense tells you they’re often too good to be true….

    Junkyard
    Member

    I’m pretty confident that the vast majority of classifieds users will welcome it.

    I can see why a seller selling something over priced would but do you really think the majority of classified users would prefer to potentially pay over the odds rather than have the actual price pointed out to them.
    I find that hard to believe tbh but I dont expect to change your mind

    Not many supporting the decision from what I can see though I dont know how many of those you would charicature as patrolling the classifieds like white knights.

    jota180
    Member

    One minute we don’t moderate enough the next there’s concern for our workload

    I didn’t say I was concerned, don’t go bigging yourselves up there 😉

    You’ve misunderstood the gist of my comment
    I’m glad you didn’t think I’d accused you of being overpaid 🙂

    loum
    Member

    Let the market do the work

    😆

    …said whilst regulating against open communication, hanging a vague and subjective ban-threat over the head of buyers who’d like to negotiate.

    😆

    edlong
    Member

    Markets work on the basis of full information.

    scruff
    Member

    Its a rubbish new rule.

    To police this when anyone can post up utter tat every day like £400 leather jackets and calf shoes and brand new ‘members’ can put up a 1st post with ads linking to pinkbike with no pics etc.

    Proper members looking out for others not getting ripped off should be encouraged.

    Markets work on the basis of full information.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    If I’m in a shop making a purchase, is it helpful to have you come in and interrupt that sale with, ‘It’s cheaper down the road at X’.?

    No it isn’t, because a) it makes you look like a weirdo and b) My reasons for agreeing to buy in that shop may (and often do) include criteria that go beyond just mere price.

    A classified trade is a relationship between buyer and seller who I would like us all to trust will do their due diligence before they agree a deal. By making the gross assumption that the buyer’s prime motivation is the absolute cheapest price you are interrupting a process that does not require your input.

    If both exercise common sense in how they conduct the sale then I think the default position should be to leave them to it. How many ‘white knights’ have been thanked for their interruption by either buyer or seller? Whatever the figure I bet it’s an order of magnitude less then the number of complaints we get about the spoiler.

    druidh
    Member

    Are the complainers also the regular traders?

    druidh
    Member

    Mark Alker wrote:

    If I’m in a shop making a purchase, is it helpful to have you come in and interrupt that sale with, ‘It’s cheaper down the road at X’.?

    If I was in a shop with one of my mates and he told me I could get it cheaper elsewhere I’d thank him. If he knew and didn’t tell me I’d think he was a bit of a knob. Some folk see STW as a community of friends, though I appreciate that to you it’s a commercial business. If the new policy helps your income stream then go for it.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    We totally differ on that Druidh. Comes down to opinion. What do we do now?

    That’s rhetorical BTW 🙂

    I’m happy to go with the vast majority on this one, which is what we have done.

    But can you explain this?

    If the new policy helps your income stream then go for it.

    Because you seem to now be spouting gibberish. How exactly does this rule help our income stream other than by helping to maintain a free classifieds system that people are happy to use?

    bigyinn
    Member

    Since when was classifieds a shop?
    Its a free ads for bikes. If people were paying for adverts in there I could understand, they’re not.
    Its more like the online equivalent of a car boot sale if anything.

    Premier Icon timidwheeler
    Subscriber

    As someone who has bought through the classifieds, but not yet sold anything I think this new policy is a mistake. I value the input of the rest of the forum it makes me feel safer about buying. If I am about to be ripped off I would really prefer it if someone told me.

    druidh
    Member

    Mark Alker wrote:

    the vast majority

    ?

    What next –

    STW reserves the right to re-use any material, including photos and videos, that you have linked to via the forum

    ?

    lank45
    Member

    Some folk see STW as a community of friends.

    druidh, I do, that’s the reason I come here most often and don’t go anywhere else! Anyway, is the season to be jolly, Merry Christmas to you all :mrgreen:

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    You know that thing when you start a thread to make a fairly frivolous point and it all spirals out of control?

    that.

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 96 total)

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