The Migraine – Is there a better ‘get out of work’ card?!

presenteeism

99 times out of 100 caused by weak/poor management projecting their hang-ups onto others in an attempt to avoid having to face up to their own shortcomings.

Properly tedious.

If I’d knowingly had flu I wouldn’t have gone to work.

If you had flu you wouldn’t be able to go to work. I’ve had it once and it took me half an hour to get from my bedroom to the bathroom for a piss. Had to do it in stages!

Another migraine sufferer here. I’ve been hospitalised with them twice and wouldn’t wish them on anyone. Don’t get them regularly any more thank god. I get the blinding, considering knocking yourself out, headache with vomiting, confusion, knackered balance, slurred speech and severe light sensitivity kind. Without hyperbole I can state that I’ve had two (the aforementioned hospital ones) where I genuinely would’ve considered doing myself in if I were able to do so. Not **** nice at all and can come out of nowhere.

Last one I had was a couple of months back and a colleague drove me home. I was curled up on the passenger seat blocking the light and trying not to vomit. Longest 12 mile journey I can recall having. He had to help me in to the house.

There is a special place in hell for those people who sit at their desks claiming to have a bit of a migraine whilst cheerfully going about their day.

Massive sympathy to those who get migraines on the regular.

I had never had one until, weirdly, after my 2nd COVID jab I started to get them after eating cheese. It was actually my boss who told me what was going on. I said I felt terrible and couldn’t really see due to these massive floating blobs in my vision, and as a migraine sufferer she clocked straight on. It all stopped again after a few weeks. I’d hate to go through that regularly.

Everyone gets sick, If I had an employee that’d never taken a day off in 5 years, it would ring alarm bells. Especially so if their role involved the company’s money. If they’re coming in when they shouldn’t be, then I’d also be having a quiet word.

Well, many years ago, I worked for a small print publishing company for eighteen years. I had two sickness leaves in all that time, once was flu, real flu, where there’s a week of my life I have no recollection of whatsoever, I can’t even remember getting out of bed.

The second I was feeling a bit iffy after the Christmas break, so my mum persuaded me to go see my doctor. I went back to work and stuck my head in the boss’s office and told him I’d been diagnosed with chickenpox.
That was another two weeks off work, and I felt perfectly fine!
The next job I worked at for thirteen years, and I don’t remember having any time off for sickness; I’m not taking time off for a snotty nose, or a migraine, which in my case are auras, once the zigzagging lines go, after taking a couple of ibuprofen, and the headache starts to die down, about half an hour, it’s not worth the hassle.

Also depends what you do for a living.
I suffer from migraine, luckily in the last few years it’s been 4/5 a year rather than the more frequent ones I had as a mid 29 year old. But hey are ful on, hours and hours of awfulness. The next day is usually a write off too as I’m fatigued and still quite light sensitive.
Given that I work in rope access, I can’t really go to site when I feel like that, have tried once or twice but after getting stuck at 80m too weak to perform the necessary aid climbing manoeuvres to get inside, I think I’ll leave those of you who think it’s cool to ‘tough it out’ to sit behind your desk with a nice sweet drink and the blinds half drawn…

Pre-covid, I’d have gone in with coughs and colds as that’s not poorly enough to justify time off – post-covid I remember going into the office when a colleague was coughing and sneezing hugely, and it was horrifying. How things have changed…

Don’t think I’ve had a genuine day off for physical reasons since a lung infection about twenty years ago – have skived a few since then, also had days where I just could not face going into work (I’ve worked for some shit people). Had good jobs since 2017 and not had a day sick in that time – I’m blessed with robust health despite being a fat ****.

Mrs Pondo took a day off this year the day after back surgery and got put on some formal process. She works for shit people.

This discussion reminds me of the time I had the snip. Worked Monday night nightshift. Op on Tuesday afternoon. Back to work on Friday night, which given my job at the time had a low but real risk of being assaulted I thought was OK.

My bosses response was to query why I hadn’t arranged for the op during my holidays.

Over the last 15 years my worst illness was a reaction to the second Covid jag. Several days off.

Sorry migraine sufferers, any time I wanted a day or two off in high school I had a convenient migraine. I did have genuine ones too, but they pretty much stopped when I was about 16. I have undermined you all and I’d do it again.

Everyone gets sick, If I had an employee that’d never taken a day off in 5 years, it would ring alarm bells. Especially so if their role involved the company’s money.

It’s weird to assume that people who don’t take sick leave are up to nefarious deeds.

I think in about 20 years, I’ve taken 3 days of sick leave. Being relatively active, and somewhat of a hermit, means I actually don’t get ill that often. I’ve always had the facility to work remotely, so if I have had colds which I think are contagious, but don’t stop me working, I’ve just worked from home.

Immuno suppressed with a risk of adrenaline crisis works well for me. Coupled with spinal and cerebral tumours it keeps HR off my case 😉

Family emergency is the most frequently used excuse for buggering off in my organisation.  It’s just sort of accepted.  I’m certain that many manage to gain at least +25% holidays each year.

Aidy
Free Member

It’s weird to assume that people who don’t take sick leave are up to nefarious deeds.

Weird to assume, reasonable to suspect. When I used to work in bank branches, the two main ways internal fraud got caught was either 1) Bob is a ****ing idiot and goes out and spends money he shouldn’t have, or 2) Bob had some sort of scheme to cover his tracks but he broke his leg and someone else had to do his job and noticed.

Some companies have policies of mandatory holidays, taking lots of single days off can trigger suspicions for the same reason, I was expected to take a 2 week break every year basically just because that’s how long it took for “hmm I don’t understand this, let’s leave it to him to sort when he gets back” to become “Well we tried to sort it and it was obviously sus”

Weird to assume, reasonable to suspect.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to suspect at all.

Think I explained pretty well why it is tbh.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to suspect at all.

Not all people who never take time off are fraudsters, but fraudsters never take time off.

if you were doing something illegal at/to work, would you risk getting discovered by not being there to deflect attention?

Think I explained pretty well why it is tbh

indeed you did. We have exactly the same policy at our bank, for the exact reasons you describe

I have a similar policy with my team but more from a welfare point of view, people need a decent break a couple of times a year, on a selfish note it’s a pain managing around people who constantly have odd days off.

As for health, it’s an HR issue really, as managers we’re not medically competant to judge if or how ill someone is. However being at work is a contractural requirement so it doesn’t really matter how genuine your illness is it can get to the point you are not fulfilling your contract. Each case is different though and practical and legal adjustments need to be made. Its surprising (actually it’s not) how many people with high absence levels also fail to impress in other areas of their work though, sometime this is clear illness related but more often it’s down to their general approach to life and lifestyle.

Not all people who never take time off are fraudsters, but fraudsters never take time off.

There’s a difference between people who never take *any* time off, and people who never take sick leave. Discriminating against people for being too healthy is just bizarre.

There’s a difference between people who never take *any* time off, and people who never take sick leave. Discriminating against people for being too healthy is just bizarre.

Where are you seeing discrimination? People are describing vigilance – patterns that could reveal something. Nobody is suggesting it’s detrimental to have a good attendance record. I don’t think theres any research to suggest fraud boost the immune system so being healthy in itself isn’t the point, but someone dragging themself to work no matter how ill could reveal insecurities about being absent – which might be fingers in the till (might also be terrible management who make them fear consequences of being ill)

It seems wild to me that in a bank of all places, the only checks and balances in place for ensuring that an employee isn’t embezzling is waiting for them to take leave/sickness so that they can surreptitiously be investigated without any cause for suspicion.  Surely what you want there is some sort of random spot check or continuous monitoring?

I have a similar policy with my team but more from a welfare point of view, people need a decent break a couple of times a year, on a selfish note it’s a pain managing around people who constantly have odd days off.

I would hate to work somewhere like that. Most of the things I want to do are at weekends and so I need to take a lot of Fridays and Mondays off for travelling, and only occasionally a whole week for stuff further away.

I found at a guy my work who was stealing from the company (won’t say any more, court case in October) I’m the company accountant, he’d been doing it two, maybe three months before I noticed, and it was nothing to do with time off which alerted me.

No-one has said that if you never take time off then you must be on the fiddle,  but it is a fair indicator. When I was in audit training, that was one of the things we were told to look for.

Surely what you want there is some sort of random spot check or continuous monitoring?

They do, but if the person is there they can manage any intrusion/throw dead cats/perform misdirection &throw auditors off the scent.

No-one has said that if you never take time off then you must be on the fiddle, but it is a fair indicator.

I can see the argument that it may be an indicator, that in combination with other red flags may cause an individual to be under suspicion. But saying it’s reasonable to suspect people of foul play merely because they happen to be fortunate enough to have good health seems very wrong to me.

fortunate enough to have good health

Not sickness, more in the case of not taking holiday- that can be a red flag. At one employer I was at, HR monitored it- was the employee struggling or the manager overloading their staff?

I have eczema, and I have it pretty bad. Uncontrolled, there were days when I just couldn’t go into work as my skin was too sore to put on clothes.

I have tried EVERYTHING to try to get it under control. People say ” Ooh, have you tried…?”, and the answer is always “Yes”. I’m 49 and it has made my life an absolute misery, so I have tried everything available. I have signed up for every medical trial available to me too.

For the past 6 years I have been on Methotrexate, which is an immune suppressant. It has had an incredible effect on my skin – life changing – but makes me far more likely to pick up everyone else’s coughs and sneezes, which develop into more serious issues for me.

I am acutely aware of my absences from work (18 days 13, then 5, this year), and wish it wasn’t the case. I always return as soon as I meet the minimum threshold for being able to function, but this does likely prolong my overall recovery.

I am hoping to move to Dupulimab later this year, which I hope will be less susceptible wider immune issues.

Not sickness, more in the case of not taking holiday- that can be a red flag.

I think that’s a reasonable cause for concern. Although, personally, I’d be concerned for that employees welfare.

People have been specifically talking about not taking sick leave to be suspicious behaviour though. Not time off as a whole.

People have been specifically talking about not taking sick leave to be suspicious behaviour though

I think Northwind and Stumpy were referring to policies similar to my previous employer- monitoring time off from a welfare POV as we all need time away to recharge.

zomg-I didn’t understand a single word of that-must be the wine😀

I get a bad headache  or light migraine most Mondays, starts around mid moring and gets worse as the day goes on. can’t really function in the evenings.

Must be a work thing or change of sleep patterns from the weekend.

Never taken time off work for it through,

It is my experience of external auditors is they couldn’t find their own arses with both hands. It is nearly always juniors that do the grunt work down in the transactions as the seniors do the managing rather than the work. It is virtually unheard of, IME, for an employee of the client to deal with the same individual auditor 3 audits in a row.

I wouldn’t be relying on external audit to find anything.

People who are proud of never being off work sick are **** weird.

Bit OK but,

Cougar
Full Member

It seems wild to me that in a bank of all places, the only checks and balances in place for ensuring that an employee isn’t embezzling is waiting for them to take leave/sickness so that they can surreptitiously be investigated without any cause for suspicion. Surely what you want there is some sort of random spot check or continuous monitoring?

Of course it’s not the only ones, just some of the most effective and simplest (the most effective is “wait for them to screw up”). The truth is it’s really pretty easy to get away with low scale fraud, there’s a million ways to create interference and smoke and just enough doubt- not so much be invisible, just be normal looking, beneath notice, avoid perfection as much as suspicion. “Mistakes” and confusion and doubt and fudged records and time shifting. In large part what the monitoring ends up doing is providing the actual evidence, when you’re investigating someone, but it’s not so good at providing a suspicion.

And there’s lots of reasons to do dodgy stuff, not all theft, which further obfuscates stuff. “Someone has screwed up and that might reflect badly on me so I’ll hide it”, imaginary rules, people work in weird ways just because they like it or because they don’t really understand what the purpose of a process is, target beating. The blame culture was huge and that’s totally counterproductive. And “There’s no point trying to trace these little errors, I’ll just hide them and it’ll balance it out over time, it’s not <wrong>, it’s better for the business, the procedures are just silly…”.

And THAT last is massive because that thinking goes all the way up. When I was last doing this stuff, the entire internal fraud investigation team for retail (ie branches) for the entire bank was 4 or 5 people, they laid off the sneakiest twistiest brained guy because he was expensive. Cheaper to just have “shrinkage”, and any funds recovered or saved go in someone else’s budget anyway. And reputational risk? They did catch a pretty big money laundering/drug deal thing in my area, it made national headlines, you don’t read “bank fraud people stop crime”, you read “bank staff do crime” and salacious stuff about drug deals and briefcases of money. What’s even the point?

I like games and rules and systems, so I couldn’t help but figure out ways to beat the systems, but for the same reason I ended up quite involved in the processes that are supposed to stop other people doing it, they pretty much self select the people who’re most able to do it and set them to stop it, it’s a classic cliche but it’s true.

(the bank I worked for no longer exists, not my fault! But I’ve no reason to think anyone else is any different. If I’d wanted to take them for a small but useful enough, say, double my salary it’d have been easier than the day job and I’d have ended up investigating myself.)

I like games and rules and systems, so I couldn’t help but figure out ways to beat the systems, but for the same reason I ended up quite involved in the processes that are supposed to stop other people doing it, they pretty much self select the people who’re most able to do it and set them to stop it, it’s a classic cliche but it’s true.

We’re off topic now…

I’m not sure if I’ve posted this before but its probably right up Northwind’s street

This is what happens at my place of work, as we dont get sick pay, so folks come in regardless (not all, but most do), which as you say, spreads the love 🙁

We get told to piss off home if we come in sick. Marched out of the door type stuff, have done for the last 20+ years and three employers.

Also have to take 3 consecutive weeks holiday (can get less signed off, but needs management and Union to agree).

I’ve got no idea how many days i’ve had off sick in the last 5 years, as i just let my supervisor know and don’t turn up. Rarely bother filling in the paperwork either. As i’m on a “make sure your job gets done” contract now.

Everyone gets sick, If I had an employee that’d never taken a day off in 5 years, it would ring alarm bells. Especially so if their role involved the company’s money. If they’re coming in when they shouldn’t be, then I’d also be having a quiet word.

“alarm bells”? As someone who has gone for several years without taking a day off (retired now) and managed very large budgets. What would that “quiet word” be??

@Northwind interesting reading, thanks for taking the time to type that up.

Worth noting that Nick Leeson’s first foray into wrongdoing was simply to cover up a mistake he probably would have been forgiven for. He just didn’t want to lose his wunderkind reputation over a daft mistake (not closing out a position that then turned bad).

🤦

Lifelong migraine sufferer here. Medicated with Triptans and more today – for the 7th time this month. Working, though, on sadly reduced output capacity, which means I will need to catch-up in my own time, pushing me back towards another migraine. Screentime is a killer for me, and I work for a long hours culture employer. I’ve lodged medical certificates about the need to stick to my contracted hours – but that’s an unrealistic ideal.

My wider function is being restructured at present – but I am and my team have escaped, although we are back in the cycle of “succession planning” (i.e. tell the company who could do your job instead of you, and we do this every six months). So, you could say it’s an effective way to make malingerers paranoid and to stop their tricks. Trouble is it also impacts those of us with real and chronic conditions.

But also, yay: Only medicated 7 times this month. This time last year I was on 18 medicated days a month.

Migraines and their downstream consequences are f**king evil.

So if people wanna tempt the karma gods by playing a false migraine card, let them at it.