The meaning of Woke

Convert, I’ve never called anyone woke in my life, I’m just telling you the meaning.

If you are vegan and have an obsession with buying leather jackets, it’s likely you are perceived as a hypocrite and potentially a virtue signaller. If you don’t have an obsession with leather then the insult ‘woke’ still drags you into the pot belittling your efforts. It upsets a whole lot of people by simple negative word mirroring.

It upsets a whole lot of people by simple negative word mirroring.

And this is the point I think. It’s exactly why it’s been co-opted. It’s all a bit daft though, like being back at school watching fully grown adults call each other odd little pet names in a hope of provoking a reaction.

It’s not just the politics that’s divided and antagonistic; so is the language.

I’m pretty sure that Woke doesn’t mean what Kryton thinks – at least not to the “mouthbreathing, knuckle-dragging neo-fascists” (which I believe is the antonym for “libtard” in modern politics ? – or is there a snappier one?)

Ask 20 people to define woke and you’ll get 20 different answers.

As used by the right today they generally mean something along the lines of political correctness gone too far, being hyper sensitive to any perceived injustice, seeing all human interactions as a power struggle between oppressor and oppressed,  or even gay race communism (not my words!)

Personally I think it’s a pretty useless term, it’s too broad, it means different things to different people and insults in general are unproductive.

If it would help the OP understand I could elaborate with some examples of “wokeness” but I have a feeling people would get mad and the thread would be derailed.

To be honest name calling normally means the other side has lost.
The same could be said when ‘gammons’ is deployed. ?

It does in my view, certainly loses any moral authority

Kryton has the original definition/origin as I’ve always understood it. I don’t know if I’m woken but it strike me as being an ok thing to be , as opposed to being a whining racist.

I dont believe that in a Venn diagram woken and snowflake overlap much at all.  Gammon and snowflake is a much better match

https://x.com/electricalWSOP/status/1665265230673321984

Convert, I’ve never called anyone woke in my life, I’m just telling you the meaning.

you’re conveying a meaning. I don’t think theres a consensus on the meaning. 

The way its used pejoratively makes it very difficult to understand what the people using it actually mean

Far right types use it as a slur, so I take it as being a good thing if I’m called it on X. Not that I go on X much.

Lovely day on the North Downs a few years ago I stop riding up a hill to have a break and 2 blokes stop for a chat.

All fine and dandy then one of them comes out with, “I blame the mess the country is in on wokeness.”

Yeah, sure, so the country is in a mess because there are people (the “woke”) that simply try to go through their lives without being shitty to other people?

I seem to attract blokes like this sometimes, I think it’s due to being mid 50’s, white and shaven headed. They see me as “one of them.” 🙂

Yeah, sure, so the country is in a mess because there are people (the “woke”) that simply try to go through their lives without being shitty to other people?

*sigh*, sadly, that’s the way I see the term being abused and used as a slur, against ‘…people (the “woke”) that simply try to go through their lives without being shitty to other people’.

I would happily admit to being accused of being ‘woke’, I’ve spent my life doing my best not to be an asshole to other people, especially people who work in the service and retail industries, and getting a smile in return seems to indicate my ‘wokeness’ is appreciated.

I would happily admit to being accused of being ‘woke’, I’ve spent my life doing my best not to be an asshole to other people, especially people who work in the service and retail industries, and getting a smile in return seems to indicate my ‘wokeness’ is appreciated.

100% this ^

Woke means aware or awake to what is going on.  It made American dictionaries in the 90s and I’ve found a reference to it from the early 70s

In 1971, the phrase was used in a play by American playwright Barry Beckham titled Garvey Lives!, in which he wrote: “I been sleeping all my life. And now that Mr Garvey done woke me up, I’m gon’ stay woke. And I’m gon’ help him wake up other black folk.”

I have a feeling though that it goes bad to the US civil rights movement of the in the 60s or earlier.

I have a feeling though that it goes bad to the US civil rights movement of the in the 60s or earlier

Yes, Leadbelly was recorded using the word in the 30s. In the same, Garvey-inspired sense of , “stay woke, (and try not to get yourself lynched by any racists)”.

I seem to attract blokes like this sometimes, I think it’s due to being mid 50’s, white and shaven headed. They see me as “one of them.” 🙂

May I suggest some woke footwear, Brightly coloured socks which might or may not allude to the lgtqba flag paired with barefoot/minimal shoes. You basically still look like a normal regular bloke until they look down at your feet which say “yeah I’m woke what ya gonna do about it?”

Before I gave up Twitter/X  I spent a ridiculous amount of time arguing with people about what woke meant and telling idiots like Andrew RT Davies that he had appropriated and was repurposing the word as part of his culture wars.

Since leaving Twitter I seldom hear the word used as a slur and had assumed the whole thing had run its course… seeing it being misused again on a thread here I am thinking that maybe I was wrong.  Reinforces how good it is to not be on X.

I guess the original meaning of the word is somewhat lost, that it is now a blunt insult that has or will soon lose its edge and everyone can move on. Ultimately it will fail as an insult because those that use the term pejoratively are, for the most part, vindictive half wits that nobody really listens to.

These days I think the meaning of ‘woke‘ is mainly in the users head when they label someone or something with it.

There’s little point in delving into where they appropriated the term from, or who and how the term has been sold to them.

My interpretation is that generally it’s become a concise way to sneer at the presumed empathetic or altruistic instincts of other people, I think users like to ascribe everything from plain old naivety to some sort of inverse fascism as a way to win imaginary argument points… Fair enough.

It is perhaps worth examining the implied antithesis of ‘woke‘  or what it means to be ‘anti-woke‘ as that is sort of what users of the term are aligning themselves to. i.e. they are essentially saying they lack empathy or altruistic instincts… In short calling people ‘woke‘ is a tacit admission that you’re a bit of a bastard yourself.

As for slinging about the term ‘Gammon‘ yeah I’ve stopped doing that, it’s not helpful. Angry bigots just don’t like the fact that there’s an evocative and concise term for them and it only serves to escalate the disagreements. They can call me woke if they like, it’s hardly an insult when you think about it and reveals more about the user of the term than their targets…

The same could be said when ‘gammons’ is deployed. ?

Woke == being mindful that some people are different from ourselves.

Gammon == being angry that some people are different from ourselves.

It is well documented what Woke means.  It is just about appreciating that people are different and have different lives and then caring about and possibly taking action on what issues that causes for them

Or a more soppy version   woke = love, anti-woke = hate.

It is perhaps worth examining the implied antithesis of ‘woke‘ or what it means to be ‘anti-woke‘ as that is sort of what users of the term are aligning themselves to. i.e. they are essentially saying they lack empathy or altruistic instincts… In short calling people ‘woke‘ is a tacit admission that you’re a bit of a bastard yourself.

In the link I posted a few hours ago, Steve Albini said much the same. In fewer, ruder, words, which is why you have to read the link and I can’t quote it.

I think we all know the original meaning of the word. I think what the OP is asking is what the hell do people using it as an insult think it means. I think the answer is that they don’t actually know. At a basic level it clearly isn’t an insult so just marks people out that use it as such as massive dickheads

As an insult, it’s just an extension of virtue signalling. Performative activism pops up on the wiki description,

Righteous, pretentious, hypocritical, moral superiority, chattering classes, that type of thing.

I’m surprised so many of the wokerati weren’t in the know (jokes) or is the denial due to the tight fitting cap (more jokes)

Isn’t it a bit like “Marxist”? A word used as an insult in some general sense by people without the remotest clue what it means or where it came from. “Keir Starmer is a Marxist lawyer”. Eh?

Woke? It’s an easy & lazy way of describing something you don’t like & don’t want to engage with. Political commentary for the hard of thinking basically.

I think what the OP is asking is what the hell do people using it as an insult think it means. I think the answer is that they don’t actually know.

Some do know what it means but think caring about others is a bad thing and you are somehow worse than them because you care about others.

But like political correctness was used when that was thing.

If someone uses the word woke I assume they are probably a bit racist

Yep, or basically someone I don’t want my woke self interacting with.

To my mind the folks who use woke pejoratively were the same folks who accused others of being “Too PC” or said things like “Its political correctness gone mad” a few years back. PC has fallen out of favour and been replaced by woke.

There are folks to the right of the political spectrum who think that inclusive speech (woke) is part of a conspiracy theory to undermine Judeo-Christian belief structures of the West – an intolerance of (to their minds) the stating of beliefs that they think are self-evidently true, things like; The west should dominate the cultural and political spheres, that Classical Greece and Rome are the self evidently the  high points of human existence, that colonialism was a good thing that bought prosperity to otherwise  backwards countries etc etc. Those folks see ‘woke’ on a continuum of inclusivity politics that started with the civil rights and feminist movements and they think is damaging and pointless.

disappointed at there being no references to the Manchester riot thread yet as far as I can see

I would happily admit to being accused of being ‘woke’, I’ve spent my life doing my best not to be an asshole to other people, especially people who work in the service and retail industries, and getting a smile in return seems to indicate my ‘wokeness’ is appreciated.

I’m not sure thats being woke, thats just being a decent human being.

Nick – that makes most sense of all responses so far, thanks.

And I can sort of see the ‘mission creep’ of the term too with that description. The divide is where part of the community which sees PCness (and therefore wokeness) as a positive and the other end of the spectrum which believes it’s pandering to the needs of ‘the others’ they have little time or respect for.

The I guess the hypocrisy or virtue signalling being an additional layer of accusations added to woke as a slur reserved for middle class white people who display woke values because you look just like the right winger so having these values is being disloyal. Or something.

Yes, the right wing version of the same thing it’s sometimes called “patriotic correctness” the idea that if you’re on the right wing of the political spectrum,  it’s an un-nuanced, uncompromising defence of nationalism, one view of history and cherry-picked ideals. Central to it is the belief that nothing can’t be fixed by more flag shagging enforced by public shaming, boycotts and policies to cut out foreign or ‘lefty’ influences.

It’s part of the reason the two side of the political debate are just relentlessly moving further and further away from each other as the white patriarchal Christian population realises that it’s hold of power for the last 300-400 years is inexorably slipping away

Yes, the right wing version of the same thing it’s sometimes called “patriotic correctness” the idea that if you’re on the right wing of the political spectrum,  it’s an un-nuanced, uncompromising defence of nationalism, one view of history and cherry-picked ideals. Central to it is the belief that nothing can’t be fixed by more flag shagging enforced by public shaming, boycotts and policies to cut out foreign or ‘lefty’ influences.

It might well be that people who are ‘Anti-Woke’ are simply just ‘Anti-Nuance’.

Deep down theres a wish for things to be simple – problems to be easy to define, blame to be easy to apportion, solutions to be easy to offer

in May 2023, Trump said: “They’re dying, Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I’ll have that done — I’ll have that done in 24 hours.”

What spoils everything is it becoming apparent that things aren’t that simple after you’ve been promised that they are – and the people who are to blame for that seemingly are the people who just point that out. The woke in everything, just like the devil,  just seems to be in the details.

It might well be that people who are ‘Anti-Woke’ are simply just ‘Anti-Nuance’.

Deep down theres a wish for things to be simple – problems to be easy to define, blame to be easy to apportion, solutions to be easy to offer

This is also good. My FiL who I discussed before is the sort person that would use woke as an accusation. A Fareham resident who proudly voted Braveman but since the election has declared his new love of Farage and is looking forward to where he is able to take the country in the next 5 years…whatever that means.

I had a conversation with him recently where he said he sees the world as very black and white – not the colour of skin but things are right or wrong; good or bad. I genuinely mistook what he was saying and thought he was admitting a failure. But he didn’t see it as that, this is a character trait he wears with honour. It’s something he is proud of.

There are folks to the right of the political spectrum who think

That’s somewhat optimistic.

I’m not sure thats being woke, thats just being a decent human being.

What’s the difference?

Fueled as nailed what most people who use the word mean, I think.

A Fareham resident who proudly voted Braveman but since the election has declared his new love of Farage and is looking forward to where he is able to take the country in the next 5 years…whatever that means.

…But he didn’t see it as that, this is a character trait he wears with honour. It’s something he is proud of.

Though both sides have lunatic fringes the RW type saying people are ‘woke’ or wanting ‘strong leaders’ often seems to be people not able to cope with change, attached to an identity they haven’t earned and can’t defend any other way, and/or too closed-minded to learn anything new. They say they feel threatened yet it’s not a rational threat. Talk of ‘loss of culture’ etc.. how, or what culture? They’re getting ‘how it was in 1955’ mixed up with culture? ‘The only constant is change’.

Nationalism is this idea that the country you were born in is great.. What, because you happened to be born there and it’s what you know? Just makes no sense.

tbh I feel a bit sorry for folk who can’t think or reason and just have fall back on a belief instead. You’ll not get any further in life if you’re mentally unable to adapt. We don’t rely on physicality to survive in our society now so we evolve mentally and socially. Thinking is what makes humanity great and inspiring. And from what I’ve seen the most inspiring thinkers seem to be a fairly woke lot..

Woke is thinking 50p Lee is a dickhead. Which he is. Therefore i am woke.

50p Lee is a dickhead.

I’m so old I can remember when 50p Lee was 30p Lee.

50p Lee sounds positively decadent – the sort of guy who’d dine in restaurants that don’t use £ signs.

0.5 Lee I guess

Oh goddamit. Yes 30p Lee then. He’s still a dickhead regardless of the compound interest i seem to have added.

His latest comment on the police “dancing round rainbows” is a prime example of dumb anti-woke rhetoric