The meaning of Woke

Just thought I’d extract this from the Patagonia thread…..

I think most of us are aware of the origins of the word Woke, and what it actually means.  But I think it’s fair to say in recent years it’s developed into something else, a 2nd iteration, when used as an accusation or slur. I don’t think it’s being used in it’s original literal sense in that context – it’s evolved into a more complicated meaning. In the most basic of ways I guess it is used in the same way some of us use being a ‘gammon’ as a slur.

I’d probably be accused of being woke – I’m vaguely left of centre politically, believe in the welfare state, worry about ‘the boats’ for the wrong reasons (people dying in the channel is really bad, rather than worrying about brown people coming in and ruining our nation), am concerned about climate change and am vegan for animal rights and environmental reasons. Oh, and I ride a bike sometimes.

But what is the accusation/slur exactly? Maybe at the bottom, grunt, end of the food chain it’s just a bad word. But what about for the more intelligent of the tory/reform or republican voter (if that’s not an oxymoron)? What is it that makes them angry with people like me? To their minds, is it that I’m out of touch of the real problems facing real people ? Is it that I am concerned about stuff that doesn’t exist or not important as far as they are concerned. Does woke mean something different in the UK  to the US?

Finally, anyone brave enough to admit they use it as an accusation and a negative description? If so, what does it mean to you when you say it?

I was once described as a “woke, leftie, hand wringing, bed wetting, libtard, snowflake”

I replied with “thanks for noticing” which stopped them in their tracks.

My BiL often blames the ills of the world on The Woke Left. He still hasn’t explained who he means by that.

I tend to align with Kathy Burke on what it means to be Woke.

You’ll have to Google it, its a bit sweary

There’s more…

Haha came here to post the Bill Burr clips but beaten to it twice! I watched Live at Red Rocks show that the top clip is from today, absolutely quality.

Not something I think too much about. I’d be a bit bemused being called woke. I do find the whole left vs right confrontation to be a bit ott, especially when the vast majority are somewhere in the middle and just getting by the best they can.

But the more we talk openly about our different views the better IMO.

I try not to use it, and certainly not as a pejorative term, mostly because it doesn’t do a good enough job of describing what I view as authoritarian shitbags trying to control people for their own means.

Who are very different to those genuinely trying to make the world a nicer, more equitable and fairer place in good faith.

But the origins of the term have been forever corrupted, there’s no pulling back from that now.

I’m a beardy vegetarian cyclist but when I hear the word woke I take it as having negative connotations and would never describe myself as being woke. In my mind it is pretty much synonymous with snowflake (I know it doesn’t mean the same thing but the venn diagram of people who are woke and people who are snowflakes is pretty much one circle)

Very much posh Guardian readers rather than proper lefties if that makes sense, people who are looking for things to be offended by and at the same time see everything as someone else’s responsibility to fix, usually the government/taxpayer

Anyway, that’s my view on it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001jc1l?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

This is quite a good delve into its origins.

Happy to be called woke, or a snowflake. To be honest name calling normally means the other side has lost.

Listening to Tory hierarchy bandy the phrase around is interesting, they have really lost the argument in recent years and need to Stoke culture wars to stay relevant…

To be honest name calling normally means the other side has lost.

The same could be said when ‘gammons’ is deployed. ?

But again, they’re also authoritarian shitbags who want to control people for their own means.

My BiL often blames the ills of the world on The Woke Left. He still hasn’t explained who he means by that.

Anyone who doesn’t vote for the Reform Party, or the Conservatives.

My understanding of Woke boils down to basically being nice to everyone, caring about people and the environment. I would also say that, by definition Jesus Christ, Buddha and most religious leaders are ‘Woke’, which does rather highlight the blatant hypocrisy of the average Republican in America, who make a point of saying what great Christians they are, how much they give to the Church, while at the same time intending to destroy the American welfare system, the protections given to the environment, even removing the ability for Americans to obtain free weather forecasts by gutting NOAA.

Empathy as ideology.

My understanding of Woke boils down to basically being nice to everyone, caring about people and the environment. I would also say that, by definition Jesus Christ, Buddha and most religious leaders are ‘Woke’, which does rather highlight the blatant hypocrisy of the average Republican in America

Which is why I don’t think that’s what they think the word means. And it’s their understanding of what they are calling out that interests me.

But the more we talk openly about our different views the better IMO.

I don’t think my motivations for promoting this debate are quite as pure as yours….I think mine might be to better understand the ‘enemy”!

Follow his link, then decide if you want to use Woke as in insult :

Sonya Massey

Woke is an easy single syllable word for dumb **** to throw around, if I ever got called “woke” I’d wear it as a badge of pride/honour.

Everyone needs to take their foot off the hate pedal and step away from social media

Sorry Kryton, you’re gonna have to draw it with crayons for me, what’s the relevance/relationship to the thread title?

Everyone needs to take their foot off the hate pedal and step away from social media

The internet in general is a dangerous place for dysfunctional/unhappy people, that chances of people doing as you suggest is slim to none sadly.

It doesn’t mean anything in particular. But having witnessed the “pot calling the kettle black” equals racism nonsense on here I’m beginning to understand why so many find it infuriating.

And I like to think that I’m pretty woke myself.

Everyone needs to take their foot off the hate pedal and step away from social media

I think we are beyond that. ‘Woke’ looks like it is going to be the main attack word used by Vance and Trump against Harris. It was used extensively by Farage and the tory leadership in the recent UK election. But what (in their heads) is it shorthand for?

Fair, I struggle with the comparisons to the US, they’re in a much deeper and darker hole in terms of race relations. I’d rather face the Taliban with a spoon than be either a cop or a person of colour in that country.

A mutual culture of fear sustained by abhorrent acts and cynical fear mongering is a hellish downward spiral.

Oh, Hang on. Reform is a thing isn’t it? Cancel my last. Shit.

The internet in general is a dangerous place for dysfunctional/unhappy people, that chances of people doing as you suggest is slim to none sadly.

What about just dysfunctional people that are otherwise kinda, ok? Asking for a friend…

What about just dysfunctional people that are otherwise kinda, ok? Asking for a friend…

They’re rare but I’m sure they’ll manage. See any political thread for evidence of my original statement.

I honestly think that a lot of folk who use it as an insult see it as just that, an insult. They don’t have a clue what they’re actually trying to articulate. It’s a last resort for when they’ve run out of reasonable debate. It’s like calling somebody decent or nice as a way of attempting to abuse them. It doesn’t really work and is amusing.

Gammon is a bit different in my opinion. When I hear it I just think of the Idles song GREAT. Like a musical description of what gammon means. A bit easier to pin down than woke, at least for me.

Woke is an easy single syllable word for dumb **** to throw around,

I think when people use ‘woke’ pejoratively it would be interesting to ask what they would have said instead to make the same point in 2019.

Its quite curious as an insult because I don’t really know what the insult is supposed to be and I’m not sure if people who present themselves as ‘anti-woke’ are particularly clear on what exactly it is that they are against.

I wonder if the mystery is what drives its – is it anger at others who are somehow colluding with their use of coded language – is it not knowing what ‘woke’ means that makes people feel they need to be anti-woke?

I mean – it really just means ‘awake’, its origins in Green Book era  America relate to being awake to, aware of, the threat in a situation. ‘Woke’ was a code word – a way of signalling that awareness with people who face that threat without compounding it by making the discussion of the situation apparent to the to people who pose the threat.

Woke = middle class hypocritical virtue signaller.

A bit easier to pin down than woke, at least for me.

It is for me too. But I wonder if that’s because I’m the user of the phase. I wonder if you asked a typical gammon what it was about them that made them a gammon if they would be able to describe it.

Woke = middle class hypocritical virtue signaller.

oh, good. Now we’re getting somewhere.

Could you explain what you mean by hypocritical?

And an example of virtual signalling that you find so annoying it’s worth an insult?

Wasn’t woke originally just when there was some weird request from some group/fanbase/etc, like the Danish films being criticised for not having enough diversity in them rather than being historically accurate for the time the film was based around, nowadays it’s money making to be anti-woke, so it’s now being thrown at everything, like disney fairytale movies that are based on fantasy being thrown into the woke argument and so on.

I just don’t think you can define it now, it’s just a way for the controversial online personas to make their money off the gullible.

My BiL often blames the ills of the world on The Woke Left. He still hasn’t explained who he means by that.

But i fort it woz all uropes fawt

Sorry Kryton, you’re gonna have to draw it with crayons for me,

Woke is a political slang adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) originally meaning alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination. Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights.

For me the word awareness is important here.   In the video I posted,  there’s a now proven case of a racially incentivised murder and IMHO intimidation prior to the murder – racial injustice buried on page 8 none the less of the BBC website – the taking of an innocent life by a black woman by the very people she called for her own protections.

So this…. middle class hypocritical virtue signaller …  language attempts to insult the likes of me who are aware of racial – and other – sensitivities and then rather revert to prior decades/centuries of denial, ignorance and intolerance.   Right there you have a poster that’d sneer at this very text and rather live in ignorance of equality.     Becuase I’m “aware” (aka woke) the potential racial sensitivity within the context that pot kettle black was used the other day does that really make it “…nonsense…” as Kramer suggests?      Kramer isn’t as woke as he thinks, because he has in one sentence denied the sensitivity exists.    I’d love to know if he’s made any other attempt outside of STW to actually learn about it before he denoted it as “nonsense”.

Is being aware of society’s sensitivities, learning and adjusting to appease one another really such a bad thing, that the very thought of it becomes derogatory?

Convert,

I’m just telling you what woke means as requested in the op.

You surely know what Hypocritical and virtue signalling mean.

#fishingforafightaboutnothing

edit : never mind, wrong end of the short stick

But what (in their heads) is it shorthand for?

IMO the closest equivalent, alluded to above, is “hand-wringing do-gooder”. I always thought it was quite funny that “do-gooder” is used as an insult by the right.

Could you explain what you mean by hypocritical?

IMO again, this tends to equate to:

Rich and concerned about inequality: champagne socialism.

Poor and concerned about inequality: politics of envy.

Either way, you’re a hypocrite

I find this is one of the better explanations. Thoughtful and goes right back to the root of it.

https://pod.link/1624704966/episode/0b0e2c363a94280fe0ae576bbefbc526

#fishingforafightaboutnothing

Genuinely no.

I just don’t know what hypocritical and virtue signalling mean in your context.

So for example, would you see me being vegan as virtue signalling?

Wasn’t woke originally just when there was some weird request from some group/fanbase/etc,

As an insult, perhaps. As a term meaning “staying alive to racial injustice”, it has been in use in black music at least since Leadbelly in the 1930s.

That said, I didn’t come across it until that amazing Childish Gambino song in 2016:

Is being aware of society’s sensitivities, learning and adjusting to appease one another really such a bad thing, that the very thought of it becomes derogatory?

In essence nope, but sadly some with audience and clout have co-opted it and here we are.

Like I said earlier, it’s not my choice of descriptor when I think someone is an authoritarian and hiding behind those who are woke and acting in good faith. Same is to be said for those who’d be described as gammons.

As a pejorative it lacks context and accuracy.

Woke = middle class

The first part is simply said to provoke an emotional reaction, because it works. We as a society are hung up on class, although it is said in some circles that identity politics is the preserve of the middle classes as they may have the luxury of being able to give it thought, time and investment.

hypocritical virtue signaller.

This for some may be accurate, but as you rightly point out, you’d need to evidence it in some way. I often think this part is moot, the internet, specifically social media is all about signalling. Life through a lens/tweet etc.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person who’s accused of being “woke” ever describe themselves as “woke”.

The word went from being self used by African Americans as described in an earlier post, to being used as an insult by the right to describe anyone they don’t like