Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 107 total)
  • The future was bright…
  • doubleeagle
    Free Member

    Whatever happened to Orange? They were a staple of British Mtb for years. I’ve noticed a few ‘what Mtb should I buy threads recently’ and several other British names pop up in particular. It looks to me like they have competition at the lower price level (e.g. Bird) and the higher end (cotics uk made/Starling and others) for the British tag, as well as the rest of the market. How come come nobody is saying “buy a 5 or a P7, I love mine”?

    Are they not what they used to be, fallen out of favour with the Singletrack community, or have I missed something?

    Full Member

    Fashion innit. Carbon, skinny steel, multi pivots, motor. I returned to a Five after years of chasing the new best thing and I have to say it is the most fun I’ve had on a bike for a long time. Not the fastest, smoothest or more efficient but definitely the most engaging ride for me (long ups are obviously a right pain). Cotic filled the steel is real hardtail niche for me but I’d still consider a P7.

    Free Member

    Always ruled out on price alone.

    Why buy a stage evo for £4500, when I could buy an almost identically specced jeffsy for £2500?

    Also remember them taking a bit of a hammering with an ill-judged “factory tour” video, when everyone else was showing off high tech super clean facilities in the east.

    Fun bikes though and huge props for trying to keep it built in the UK

    Full Member

    I like the idea of owning once in principle, British made, single pivot, not made of plastic. However they’re just too expensive for what they are and I don’t think they’re quite keeping up with the latest trends in geometry.

    Full Member

    They are a bit pricy for certain but they ride very well and work well (minimal pivot maintenance, great mud clearance) in the UK. I like them but I can see that they aren’t for everyone

    Full Member

    Much better bikes out there for much less money.

    Full Member

    The FS range work fine downhill until you apply the rear brake, uphill? – meh

    I’m currently building up a clockwork Evo 129 though

    Free Member

    Of the lads I’ve known who’ve bought a full suss orange only 1 hasn’t cracked, and although they were all replaced on warranty at least one of them cracked again afterwards and he had to get it welded. I do own an older Crush and would consider another if I end up replacing it in future but as said above, there are better options for far less £££ than their full suss bikes

    Full Member

    Some great comment here including my personal favourite

    Ugly, heavy, expensive, backward. Choose four

    Full Member

    Personally I really like them. I had an Alpine 160 from 2012 and only sold it after 8 years because I wasn’t going to get the chance to ride much in the near future. It wasn’t any noisier than any other bike (possibly due to the swing arm shape and the fact the down tube wasn’t actually any fatter than most Alu or carbon bikes), it was fast, pedalled well and I could keep up with all my friends on their fancier bikes. It also only every had 4 pivot bearings over the whole 8 years. In real world riding I never really understood the braking problem people complained about on the internet.

    Although in hindsight I probably could have ridden a Five instead.

    I don’t know if the newer ones are any better or worse.

    It was a bit more expensive than other bikes with similar specs at the time but that sort of paid for itself over 8 years.

    Would I get another one in the future? Quite possibly if I had the money and the time to justify it. And if they did it in a colour I liked (I see Orange offer a lot less colours nowadays).

    I liked how it looked, rode and felt, it suited the winch and plummet riding that I did (only about 25% of my riding back then was proper XC). I enjoy buying British made products when I can (if it’s fit for purpose) and not worried about marketing BS.
    But then I don’t really fancy a carbon bike (even though the wife has had a few).

    But people like different things and I’m sure Orange are not struggling for customers.

    Full Member

    Less call now for that type of thing now that most documents are stored digitally.

    Full Member

    Surely this is the best comment on that pinkbike link…

    Any one who reads singletrack forum is an absolute turd and usually has ideas of grandure while sat upon their latest spec bike that they bought with the proceeds from selling jizz.

    Full Member

    Love my P7 29er. I’m really not fussed about buying British – or boutique or whatever brand is currently fashionable etc.

    A SolarisMax was a contender but it was a chunk of cash more. In the end I managed to get my Orange for 40% below list price so seemed rude not to.

    Full Member

    Love my P7 29er. I’m really not fussed about buying British

    Good job really, the hardtails aren’t made here 😉

    Full Member

    I liked the idea (British made and durable in northern conditions) until I test rode a Five. It felt sluggish uphill and on the flat, and wasn’t any faster for me than the Canyon Nerve I was riding at the time downhill.

    Full Member

    Would love a Stage Evo to replace my Whyte T130. But cant get over the price even the pro spec is 4.5k.
    You dont seem to be able to change the spec via the website as much as you used to be able to.
    That and the 100 quid premium to change paint colour (really??)
    I get the built in UK costs, but price alone is too much for me.
    Like the look of the new Cotic Flaremax and could perhaps stretch towards a far east made frame one.
    Like the idea of the single pivot for ease of maintenance etc, but never ridden once since my proflex (last century ;))

    Full Member

    Not convinced they’re really doing badly? Their factory’s limited in how much they can make and they sell every bike that comes out of it, at a pretty high price. Maybe they’re a bit less of a hero product than they were 10 years ago but IMO that’s because they used to massively overachieve, not because they’re doing anything wrong or doing badly now.

    One big thing was dumping the cheaper far eastern bikes, the G3 etc, they used to sell a load of those at ridiculous prices, they were nothing special and just sold on the brand name and faux britishness. Stopping that has moved them upmarket but cost them visibility.

    I think maybe they had some confidence issues too and maybe some issues with their target markets or perception? I mean, if you make a bike as brilliant as the original Five 29, that seems perfectly aimed at your core market, and no bugger buys it… So you totally rebrand it to try and reposition it, and then still nobody buys it… That’s got to be hard, that was the best bike they’d ever made, one of the first really great long travel 29ers… And literally years later other brands were making bikes that were no better and selling like hotcakes.

    Definitely seems to have been reliability issues with the newer models too- they started talking about weight loss in their press releases and purely coincidentally more of them started breaking. The reliability was always ridiculously overstated tbh, anyone who had a 224 or an Alpine knew about the crack risks… (I remember a conversation with some poor sod at Glentress who literally went “Yeah I love these, they’re bombproof, oh, my BB’s cracked) But for whatever reason they’ve lost that bulletproof and unearned rep I think.

    Full Member

    I suspect that at the high end, lets say 3k and upwards, Ebikes are taking the lions share of the market?

    Full Member

    They just seem very expensive for what they are. Kinda like the industrial look of them. Never ridden one so can’t comment on how they ride. I was tempted by a used short travel 29er (stage 4?) that I saw for a decent price used.

    Free Member

    My P7 died. The new one doesn’t run singlespeed and is beyond my pocket. (As are used examples)

    Free Member

    I’ve always liked them personally. I’ve no doubt that like most bike brands right now they’re selling everything they make. From what I’ve seen (and I own a crush) everything is good and well built, but went elsewhere for a FS myself. I’m just surprised they’re never mentioned on the forum as a recommendation more often.

    That pink bike article comment page is v funny.

    Full Member

    I like the look of the new ones and the stage 4 n 5 both ride well.

    My mate who runsxa guiding business in the Alps runs a stage 6 as his own bike…. it doesn’t get an easy life but doesn’t need pivot bearings every month….

    Full Member

    Never had so much fun on an mtb as my Orange Four, awesome.

    Just bought the Stage Evo, amazing skill compensation 😊 and simply fun, fun, fun, 🥰

    Cracks, none. Orange Four all round NW England, reliability 100% and still on original bb and pivot bearings and smooth as 👌

    Full Member

    Maybe I’m odd and it’s been a while since I rode one but there’s a few things I like about them. I always preferred the pedalling feel of a single pivot like the Orange to the very neutral 4-bar options. Braking effect on the suspension wasn’t ideal but learning where’s best to brake isn’t a bad thing. Simplicity still counts for a lot and personally I’d rather have a UK made Al vs an imported carbon bike.

    Free Member

    I like em, but they are expensive.

    I bought a YT instead. I did fancy a Cotic but that was also very expensive in comparison

    Full Member

    I’ve had a few Orange’s years ago. Started with a Mr.O and ended with a 224 Evo.

    I think in the olden days when all suspension bikes were a bit crap they at least had the advantage of being simple and easy to live with. They also weren’t drastically over priced and there was no direct sales alternatives.

    When I had my 224 in Whistler I borrowed loads of other bikes like a Demo 8, Session, Commencal Supreme and I knew I’d bought the wrong bike.

    I’ve ridden a few demo bikes since like Fives and Alpines and can’t see the appeal. They’ve been absolutely left in the dust by the competition.

    Full Member

    I’ve been riding a four now, since 2017. No cracked frame and it still brings a smile to my face. I did change the standard wheels for something a bit lighter though, which made it feel even more lively and as stuff has worn out (BB, headset) it’s been upgraded. I can’t see me changing it anytime soon.

    Full Member

    I have a very old one. There is no brake jack but a lot of pedal kick back. Do I mind? No.

    Full Member

    10-15 years ago or so, they were a solid choice I think, you could assemble a good bike using an Orange frame and they weren’t bad VFM.

    The problem is now that the price differential with the (non-UK manufactured) competition is very noticeable, i.e. Stage Evo frame is basically £1K more than say an Aether 9, and if you’re counting your pennies that difference in price more than accounts for a CCDB upgrade or whatever. I think Orange are working at about the limits of people’s willingness to “Buy British” when a substantial extra outlay doesn’t deliver anything more functionally or tangibly. That’s not a criticism, I’m sure they’ve got faithful customers that will come back and buy an orange every few years.

    People understand they’d be paying that extra for UK labour, I just don’t think everyone really recognises that as part of the ‘value’ in the product.

    Coming back the the original question, Why aren’t Orange recommended anymore?
    Basically half the time they don’t even have a bike in the price bracket someone is looking at.

    Have you seen the spec on their base model ‘Five Evo S’? for example? £3.5k and you get an SX drivetrain and steel stanchion bottom of the range RS ’35 TK’ fork.
    For almost a grand less you’d get GX and Lyrics on a Sonder Evol, spend that same £3.5k with Bird and you can start mulling over Pikes, AXS, maybe even a Carbon frame or a posher shock…
    (Note: I am ignoring everyone’s current stock levels).

    When people ask for a recommendation they’re really just trying to navigate spec-sheet gibberish and figure out what good VFM even is for an MTB these days. I don’t think it’s easy to recommend someone an Orange on that basis, it’s almost always the most expensive product with the lowest relative spec…

    That’s before you start comparing with the Big Corp’s like TREK/SBC/Giant/Canyon/etc…

    Orange will survive as long as people are willing to pay a premium for a UK made product with some heritage, but nobody’s going to suggest to noobs that they drop £3-5K on one, a few months in they’ll notice their mates have got much fancier parts for far less spend…

    Full Member

    I’d love one but It would have to be a second hand frame only job. 😐

    Free Member

    would have to be a second hand frame only job.

    I’d be careful about saying that too fast.

    I have a soft spot for Oranges. I’d love. Stage 6 and a Stage Evo in my garage. Owning an Orange is pretty easy, two bearings once a year.

    Free Member

    Definitely don’t see as many on the trails as a few years ago. I quite like the look of them, appreciate the simplicity and the ones I’ve ridden rode nicely. It’s not as if I know many people with modern Oranges but two of them have cracked theirs, not great. Prices seem questionable. £2200 for a Stage Evo frame, plus another hundred for any colour but orange. It’s a basic design with no carbon, just two bearings, no linkages and being made here there’s no shipping or import duty. So must be paying a lot for the cost of UK manufacturing and selling through real shops. The bottom brackets are rather low. May or may not be a problem depending on terrain and where the suspension sits under pedalling.

    Full Member

    Do they still do that thing where you spec your bike up on the website and they charge you full RRP for any upgraded parts but then don’t deduct the price of the standard kit which you won’t receive? Smooth move.

    Maybe if they switch to direct sales the prices would be more competitive but they seem too old fashioned for that.

    Full Member

    Do they still do that thing where you spec your bike up on the website and they charge you full RRP for any upgraded parts but then don’t deduct the price of the standard kit which you won’t receive? Smooth move.

    5 or 6 years ago when I was looking for my first FS I discovered this. A dropper wasn’t standard then, and they charged full RRP for a reverb and didn’t even throw in the straight post for when it inevitably broke. This was in the external routing days, so about a minute more to fit than a straight post.
    Bought a bird instead.

    As a thought – has the popularity of water bottles /pack less dealt a blow to them?

    Free Member

    A couple years back I did a high end demo day at glentress.

    I was on a canyon strive at the time with 26 inch wheels.

    I demoed loads including an alpine 160 650b

    It was by far the worst bike there. Horrible to ride, didnt deal with bumps properly, had terrible brake jack and “wibbled” when pushed through bends. It almost felt like the front and rear were not properly connected…

    My old strive was a better bike ( 1/3rd price) and the Nomad this demo led me to buy was several steps better.

    Free Member

    I like the look of them these days, that one a few posts up is really quite braw.

    Price and failures have thus far kept me away.

    Full Member

    I had a segment. It was great, but I could never get plush suspension with out bottoming repeatedly on a ride.

    Cleaned up the frame to sell and found a crack in the swing arm.

    I’d have one again, but it would have to have the same geometry as my g13 🙂

    Free Member

    I had three hardtails in a row from them when I was younger – got a 1991 Clockwork hanging on the study wall. But as I got older and wanted plushness they didn’t measure up, so my last two bikes have been an FS Trek Superfly and a FS Scott Spark. I’d have bought a Orange if they had a FS cross country bike to suit.

    It’s not hard to replace frame bearings.

    Full Member

    I’m an Orange fan.

    They mades sails for me back in the day, leant me Prestige and an E3 for my first ever mountain bike rides. The first mountain bike I ever saw was a Tushingham.

    I’ve owned a C16r, P7, Sub5 and ST4.

    Would I buy now? I’m not so sure. The prices are just so big a step up from other bikes. Although I would say the same over Santa Cruz and that doesn’t hold their sales back.

    I really liked the Four on a demo day at Comrie, but felt the Stage6 was just not as good as the other bikes I tried all day. The Four was a top drawer build worth at least £5k, so I would expect it to ride well! To be fair to the Stage6 I also stepped off a Starling with full Ohlins onto the base Stage6, and the last (8th!) winch up to the top of the day.

    Has shock technology changed / reduced some of the single pivot benefits?

    It will be interesting to see the UK Cotic frames Vs Orange costs.

    Full Member

    That and the 100 quid premium to change paint colour (really??)

    Don’t look at Condor bikes then 🤣

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 107 total)

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