I think the govt should mandate a minimum of 2 chargers per site, penalising any provider with a bad serviceability record.

An ask if I may, I finally got the authorisation to get a company car, but which one? I needs to be Electric, and leased ideally at a max of £355 a month over 36 months with maintenance – otherwise I have to pay the extra, something I don’t really want to do as I’m tight fisted these days otherwise the worlds my oyster.

It also needs to get me from London to Gloucester with 7kw charger available during the day while I’m in Gloucester. Finally and ideally it needs to be able to take my bikes in the back, and be suitably comfy/entertaining for long journeys – think Salesman.

My original list before the price restriction was I4 or EV6, can’t stand Teslas.

ID.4 is a nice looking car (and quite big), but the EV6 is an acquired taste, despite being a really well put together vehicle.

I came to suggest the eNiro, but it needs. tow bar fitted at the factory and will only carry 350kg, so a bike rack and that’s it. Hyundai do the Ioniq5 that’s equivalent to the EV6 and should have enough range to get you there and back. I think it looks a bit better than the EV6, but that is personal.

Honestly? I think you will struggle to get an ID.4 at your available lease rate. Maybe the other two, maybe not, certainly more of a chance than a base model VW EV.

Just spotted This from a couple of months ago.

Looks like no Dacia spring for the UK and the replacement platform probably won’t land here before 2025 depending on what badge it’s wearing. That’s yet another blow for affordable EVs in the UK.

Honestly? I think you will struggle to get an ID.4 at your available lease rate.

This is kind of why I posted. The lease costs seem to be in the region of £450 a month at least, so it’s pushing me to continue with the 320d / Bangermomics kuga for another year and keep the £355 as a taxable allowance. I posted cause I feel I’m missing something…

Dont fit an external bike rack. It will trash your range so you will need a much bigger battery to overcome that drag.

My bikes fit fine in the back of my Ioniq with the seats down. How far is the London to Gloucester trip?

Don’t forget that in any car you can stop for a quick 10 min top up to get to your destination, doesn’t have to be the full 45 mins.

123 miles London to Gloucester according to Google. That’d be easily doable in an Ioniq, Kona, Leaf etc.

I’ve often thought “wouldn’t the roads be much nicer if white van man had 265bhp to play with”

No worse than 350bhp Audi driver or 500bhp SUV owners.

Mrs a11y’s got an interest in electric for her next vehicle now but still a few years away from it in reality. Things like the Ioniq etc fit all criteria for her at the moment, but then she’s piped up that an e-Berlingo would be great for biking/family trips. Potentially on a winner there.

…and back in the same day allowing for a cold wet winter.

Yes, bikes would go in the back thats the intention. I think I may have to add £200 of my own money for something decent – it needs to be a 3 years lease – and look at it as a £2400 a year new car purchase at home I guess. I’d prefer an EV6 over the IONIQ, and the I4 over both of those.

The sale of the Kuga on WBAC would pay for a decent tow bar & some all seasons on the 320d and we already have a Thule for that.

Obvs I’m trying to get something for “free” if I can. Mrs K would also use it for school runs when I’m WFH.

and back in the same day allowing for a cold wet winter.

I wouldn’t hesitate to do that in my Ioniq EV in winter. Worst economy I’ve ever had on a damp windy cold motorway trip was 4.5m/kWh. The range is about 170 miles in those conditions, so you’d get there with about 50 miles left. You’d only need to put back in 18 or so kWh to get home, but on a 7kW charger the time from 0-100% is only 6.5hrs so you’d easily get enough charge in. Let’s assume you averaged 6kW at the charger (it’s not always at max speed) you would be able to draw 24kWh. It’s not 100% efficient to charge though, probably 85% or so, so you’re looking at 20kWh into the battery so chances are you’d end up full or nearly full for your return journey. And if you are stuck in a massive jam or face a huge diversion or whatever then just stop somewhere on the way home for literally ten minutes and top it up.

Ioniq 5/EV6/iD4 are better cars though, they’re more expensive. The biggest issue with the iD4 is that the heat pump doesn’t come as standard. So unless you can spec it, you might end up with resistive heating which really will screw up your winter range.

Kryton – I had the small battery ID4 and I really struggled to get on with it. It was comfy and loads of storage but over winter the battery took a hammering (no heat pump) and I was struggling with the range it gave me. I swapped it for an EV6 and it’s much better (about £15k more expensive admittedly). The storage is less but the car seems better built, a better drive and the IT/computer stuff far more useful.

My EV6 is just north of Bristol and often in the Forest of Dean – you’re welcome to have a look sometime.

a11y

No worse than 350bhp Audi driver or 500bhp SUV owners

Lol of course it’s worse, because somebody driving an expensive car 9/10 times will want to take good care of it. Basically polar opposite to a white van man.

somebody driving an expensive car 9/10 times will want to take good care of it.

A tangent, but most of the people driving those new expensive cars don’t own them, they’re company cars.

Anyway, there was a notable lack of people doing 90-100 on the M4 yesterday evening. Seems like a combination of high fuel cost and the fact that driving fast destroys the range on your now electric company car seems to keep a lid on things.

Thea lease prices for electric cars seem to have gone up quite a lot recently. I remember looking late last year and there were plenty of ID3, ID4s and Ioniq 5s that were well under £350/m and an Ev6GT was coming in at £426, but now, almost everything is at or above this rate. I guess that’s supply and demand for you.

Thanks for the feedback on heat pumps, I had no idea about such things.

@Mintman thanks for that offer I might take you up on that, and useful to know.

Thanks for the feedback on heat pumps, I had no idea about such things.

My much cheaper Ioniq has one tho 🙂

The lease prices for electric cars seem to have gone up quite a lot recently

Yeah it’s a terrible time to buy or lease to be fair. That said, I think demand is stratospheric, and whatever supply appears will be snapped up. And if that slows they’ll just knock the prices a bit and get everyone who couldn’t previously afford in one, and repeat.

This is kind of why I posted. The lease costs seem to be in the region of £450 a month at least, so it’s pushing me to continue with the 320d / Bangermomics kuga for another year and keep the £355 as a taxable allowance. I posted cause I feel I’m missing something…

its worth mentioning the ev would be pretty much tax free, so if you have a £350 allowance + £100 buyup, it might only be costing you ~£250 after tax

in other news, the id-buzz has been priced in germany. £55k for the only model (with seats)

VW ID. Buzz To Start At €64,581 In Germany, Cargo Version At €54,430

Bit of a fail for VW to not spec heat pumps as standard, tbh. Certain people are queueing up to slag off EVs and the scare stories of ‘oh my mate’s mum has one and the range falls off a cliff in winter’ get repeated far too often.

If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.

molgrips
Full Member

Bit of a fail for VW to not spec heat pumps as standard, tbh. Certain people are queueing up to slag off EVs and the scare stories of ‘oh my mate’s mum has one and the range falls off a cliff in winter’ get repeated far too often.

If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.
Posted 39 minutes ago

Indeed, on that subject – just curious – is it effectively the A/C hardware which is used as a heatpump on EVs? Or is there a separate system for heat?

I dunno, I think it’s just a heatpump, like any other, but small. It’ll be run from its own electric motor since there’s no crankshaft to drive it from. They’re bi-directional so it’ll put heat into the cabin from outside (or from the battery/drivetrain) when it’s cold, and take heat out of the cabin when it’s hot.

Our Zoe runs on a two way heat pump – it’s pretty basic technology, exactly equivalent to AC. When you turn on the cooling or heating you see 1kW consumption appear on the dashboard, for heating that works out as about 3kW of power input. Not much compared to motor power consumption. I suspect much of the winter penalty is about the battery being less efficient when cold.

Cool thanks, so if a Zoe can use a reversible one, seems that there would be no reason VW can’t do the same. I was wondering if VW had skipped it due to packaging constraints.

I’m waiting for my delayed Ioniq5. To fill the gap after selling my PCP A6 in April, I’m using an EV car subscription service. Minimum of a month per car. I’ve taken an MG 5 LR, which gets 200-240 miles from full. It was the cheapest EV with a reasonable range.

It’s an estate so plenty of room. Roof bars as standard too. 7 sec from 0-60 and plenty of power for overtaking. It’s one of the cheaper EVs and has pleasantly surprised me, having sat in an A6 for the last 4 years. Mine has ACC, Apple CarPlay/AA, Leather interior, DAB, heated seats.

so if a Zoe can use a reversible one, seems that there would be no reason VW can’t do the same. I was wondering if VW had skipped it due to packaging constraints.

Oh they offer it, but it’s an optional extra, rather than standard kit. And most lease deals now seem to be offering cars they ordered ages ago, due to delivery times, and they don’t mention extras. So I think they’ve not specced it and you’ll get whatever they have – hence the warning. I like the iD4 and it can tow but I’m not doing without a heat pump.

I suspect much of the winter penalty is about the battery being less efficient when cold.

That and/or the battery needing heating. You can save range by leaving it plugged in and telling the car you’re leaving at a particular time so it keeps the battery and the interior warm, but this doesn’t necessarily save money as I belatedly realised. It heats the car from your electricity at 8am which is peak cost, rather than heating it from the off-peak energy you put in in the middle of the night!

On a bit of a tangent, I was at the national Forecourt show a few weeks ago (for petrol station owners/corner shops etc).

Apart form the obvious hedonism contained at such an event, there were a few companies (BP, Veeder-root) touting huge electric vehicle charges to install on forecourts. We’re talking 200KW, £85,000 jobbies. These are ready-for-sale, so may start appearing soon.

Would love to see more (obvs) and I can imagine from a business point of view it would make great sense because the users of such services have nothing to do but sit there and buy crap from your shop. But I wonder how many sites actually have enough power available and how much it costs to have it wired in?

My work is finally just about to launch a salary sacrifice scheme (through tusker as well). I’ve kind of convinced myself I want an iD3*, I want
– Golf sized that I can comfortably get a family of 4 in
– a towbar so I can put a bike rack on it
– heat pump

Is there anything else I should be considering? It’s weird, lots of the head to head reviews for the iD3 seem to pitch it with bigger more expensive cars.

*don’t laugh, I’ve heard it’s something like a 14 month lead time

I’m gonna say Hyundai Kona/Ioniq EV of course. Probably not as plush as a VW but good cars.

The problem with any EV ordered now is actually getting one! Don’t plan on sitting in it inside a year.

I’m waiting for my delayed Ioniq5.

Worth the wait. Loving mine.

Probably not as plush as a VW but good cars.

Not sure about the kona but the I5 feels nicer inside/less plasticky and better put together outside thank my dads VW Gold mk8…..

Th3 Ioniq5 is a step up from the Niro/Kona and old Ioniq though. I5/EV6/genesis GV60 are the attempt by Hyundai/Kia group to break into the luxury market.

Considering how much I’m enjoying the MG 5, I can’t wait for my I5. Roll on August…………

Having said that, if it gets delayed again & I could get an e-Niro straight away I’d swap.

@dantsw13

I think the govt should mandate a minimum of 2 chargers per site, penalising any provider with a bad serviceability record.

We’ve got about 650 chargers on site (or should have by now) they are still all completely occupied by 7:30 in the morning. It’s getting so bad that they are talking about bringing in extra charges/fines for people who don’t vacate within a certain timescale after the battery is full.
Plan is to have 900 chargers by the end of the year. Unfortunately, we already have about 2000 Co Cars with either full BEV or PHEVs. Plus another couple of hundred privately owned ones…

@Molgrips

If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.

Why?

We’re talking 200KW, £85,000 jobbies. These are ready-for-sale, so may start appearing soon.

We have a variety of these that have been bought for testing. Some of the suggested charging speeds are a little optimistic…

Not sure about the kona but the I5 feels nicer inside/less plasticky and better put together outside thank my dads VW Gold mk8

Yeah I should clarify that the Ioniq EV is a car from 2017 or so that originally came with a 28kWh battery then got upgraded to 38kWh. It’s available in petrol or diesel hybrid and plugin hybrid models as well. It’s what I have, decent and well specced but not luxurious, they are about £30k in EV form. When I say ‘Ioniq’ I’m not just using short hand 🙂

Hyundai in a rather confusing move skipped called another car the Ioniq 5, which is a completely different car in all respects – price, market segment, size, performance, and plushness level.

If Hyundai can put one in as standard on cheaper cars then VW can too.

Why?

It is a significant problem not having a heat pump IMO. You’re paying for all these expensive batteries then pissing energy up the wall. You’re feeding range anxiety by making it much more variable, making it more of a pain to own, you’re encouraging the naysayers, and it’s not really well publicised so you’re going to get a lot of dissatisfied customers. A bad move from VW, for me.

molgrips

Oh they offer it, but it’s an optional extra, rather than standard kit. And most lease deals now seem to be offering cars they ordered ages ago, due to delivery times, and they don’t mention extras. So I think they’ve not specced it and you’ll get whatever they have – hence the warning. I like the iD4 and it can tow but I’m not doing without a heat pump.

Understood, thanks molgrips.

Agreed. Heat pump should come as standard. We had to spec it on my wife’s ID3 but glad we did as it seems to make a decent difference. I was shocked to find my Mar ‘20 Tesla M3P doesn’t have a heat pump (no option to spec) but the new ones do. Bit of a pisstake that a £56k car didnt come with this useful kit as standard. My Tesla with roof bars/598s gets similar miles out of a charge as the VW. Obviously a lot of that is to do with me ruining the aero of the car with bike carrying equipment on the roof!

I’m ambivalent about heat pumps. They made sense in the early days of EVs when squeezing every bit of range out of a battery was critical but now with 50+kWh batteries being the norm they’re not essential, just nice to have IMO. And that’s if you live somewhere cold, in the mostly temperate UK it’s not a big thing. If it’s an option then only worth buying if you’re an efficiency obsessive or regularly pushing close to the range of the car and it might make the difference between a charge and not.

Otherwise for everyday use (well within the range of the car) it’s irrelevant other than a few pence more per charge. And for the long trips it’s unlikely to have much effect on when and where you charge. I had an eGolf for 2 years without one and it was very rare that a heat pump would have changed anything about how we used it.

Battery Life on youtube tested ID.3 with and without, reckoned on 264km vs 287km – but that was at -9C.

Wind, rain, cold, speed have more of an effect on range in the winter than energy used to heat the cabin IME.

Battery Life on youtube tested ID.3 with and without, reckoned on 264km vs 287km – but that was at -9C.

That’s interesting, it’s not as much difference as I thought it would make TBH. I wonder if a more normal range for the UK (e.g. 0-10c) would have a bigger or smaller difference between heatpump/non-heatpump. Because the cabin would require less heating but (i presume) the heatpump is more efficient in warmer temps.

There are a lot of stories of wild variations between summer and winter in various cars (my colleague’s Model S for one), and more importantly the actual range being far below the ‘claimed’ in winter, however I don’t see that. I’m guessing it’s down to the heat pump and Hyundai being generally pretty honest and decent about range by the looks of things.

I think it also depends on how fast you are driving, because the faster you go the more heat is generated by the motor which could be re-directed to the cabin if my understanding is correct (but I’m not sure). And even if the energy use for heating might be similar for a given time it’s being spread over fewer miles if you’re going slower so has a greater impact on miles/kWh and hence absolute range. Because range is quoted in miles (or km) not hours.

@willard on here got some great numbers from his new Kona on his first trip in minus Sweden temperatures, but I think it was a long run.

Wind, rain, cold, speed have more of an effect on range in the winter than energy used to heat the cabin IME.

We had a conversation earlier about this, and the response was if I remember, ‘different’ and my current approach (seat heaters on, aircon on, steering wheel heater on, Spotify via inbuilt HiFi and phone plugged in plus helmet, gloves & jacket on passenger seat etc) was deemed, ‘wasteful’. Oh, and slow down 🙂

Maybe I need to hire an EV and see what range I’d actually get using one as I use my current diesel car.

Being a bit more limited on cost, I’ve just ordered a lease EV6 Air, 36 months with maintenance at £530 a month… delivery in February 23!

The lease company have a clause that allows you to change your order if something comes in sooner, so I have an alert on an I4.