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I keep getting told we have some sort of climate crisis on our hands, did I miss the bit where it was over?
It's not over and it is not going to be fixed, it is only going to get worse. Pissing about with policies for EV cars in 10 years time, lorries in 20 years time is going to make little difference.
If you really wanted to do anything about it you would stop production of new cars, limit car use and keep existing cars on the road (we have enough of them already). In 20 years time it would look like Cuba but so be it.
Now go and sell that to the car loving world...
Guessing it was obvious the SUV lovers weren’t gonna go for a smaller sensible sized option.
You guessed wrong. I went for the E Tron as it was the best deal on offer at the time. iD 3 or 4 weren’t available at the time which is what I wanted. I’ll look next time see what deal there are, if it’s a family hatch then I’ll go for one of those. The range will have increased by then, battery weight seems to be getting lighter as they become more efficient and charging speed much faster.
You stick with your trailer idea though.
If you really wanted to do anything about it you would stop production of new cars, limit car use and keep existing cars on the road (we have enough of them already). In 20 years time it would look like Cuba but so be it.
The way to do it - which is wider than cars - is to set everyone a CO2 allowance. Everything you buy has a CO2 charge food, goods, domestic heating, public transport, flights etc and when you've used it all up you can't buy anything more (maybe only basic food and domestic heating).
Products with a longer life eg cars you would have a monthly CO2 charge for the life of the vehicle (like a depreciating asset in accountancy). When the CO2 cost of building the car is used up, say after 12 years then the monthly CO2 charge reduces to zero. But obviously you continue use your CO2 allowance up on fossil fuels if you are keeping an old ICE running
Obviously none of this seems likely although it's technically possible (big central database plus phone app/CO2 ration chip and pin card required for every purchase). The political will and public support to do it are extremely unlikely to materialise.
Now go and sell that to the car loving world…
It's not just love of cars, I don't even think that's the biggest factor. It's that our entire economy is based on people being mobile. To get rid of cars you'd have to completely rethink how humans live on a huge scale. Now consider that we've spent 5 years almost entirely on Brexit and it was the key issue in the last election and you can see how impossible any kind of large scale rapid change is.
It’s not over and it is not going to be fixed, it is only going to get worse. Pissing about with policies for EV cars in 10 years time, lorries in 20 years time is going to make little difference.
It’s not just about the climate, it’s also about local air pollution which can be reduced by cutting emissions from the vehicle to zero.
To get rid of cars you’d have to completely rethink how humans live on a huge scale. Now consider that we’ve spent 5 years almost entirely on Brexit
Changing our dependence on travel could (not saying will) be approached gradually, with opportunities to adjust the approach. Brexit is an in or out step change, once done it's irreversible in the short term, which is one reason it was a big thing. I'm reminded of the Alec Issigonis quote.
Obviously none of this seems likely although it’s technically possible (big central database plus phone app/CO2 ration chip and pin card required for every purchase). The political will and public support to do it are extremely unlikely to materialise.
Yep. Not forgetting that they’ll allow you to offset with other people (for a cost)so all that will happen is the rich will still drive,fly,buy new cars and carry on business as usual ,well for the 6 months it takes for the other people to realise what they’ve signed up for a la poll tax and then it’ll be consigned to the bin due to it being political suicide.
Why is it so hard to imagine having a decent public transport system? I mean, I know why, its the UK but its not like we're stepping into the realms of sci-fi here.
@kerley I agree completely. Changing the drive train is just tinkering round the edges. We need proper solutions. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be the will to even consider them on a societal scale.
Why is it so hard to imagine having a decent public transport system? I mean, I know why, its the UK but its not like we’re stepping into the realms of sci-fi here.
I’d love to see a reliable, convenient and affordable public transport system.
I know, I'm not suggesting anyone isn't doing the best with the shitty hands being dealt but there is so much more that could be done if we (as a nation if not a species) were actually serious. But that doesn't suit the status quo.
Definitely, some seem to struggle at how good it could be. I use now to travel to Newcastle for days out, even though it’s now cheaper for me to drive. It’s a lot easier and quicker than driving, plus I can have a tipple.
Most of us know what actually needs to be done to stop the situation getting worse. We also know that nobody is ever going to support any of it so gradual changes here and there for the next 30 years having an even bigger issue to address in 30 years time.
That is mostly down to the inability for human beings to see themselves in 30 years time. They can see themselves now, the direct impacts today and so on but thinking about 30 years time has no basis in reality and they don't even see that person in 30 years time as them.
I’m currently sat at the Stirling low carbon hub on a free 50 kWh charger grabbing a few miles before heading back up the road
Does no one else have a problem with the well off having their travel subsidised by the general public?
I’m currently sat at the Stirling low carbon hub on a free 50 kWh charger grabbing a few miles before heading back up the road
Does no one else have a problem with the well off having their travel subsidised by the general public?
All ChargePlace Scotland chargers are all currently set to free vend because the new administrator SWARCO made a complete clusterf.. of taking over from BP Chargemaster. Currently you can't add or change payment details on your Chargeplace Scotland account, SWARCO have lost comms with a large % or the chargers and they are sending out new RFID cards at a snails pace.
More and more local authorities in Scotland are charging for their Chargeplace Scotland chargers but AFIK Stirling distruct still don't charge however when I was up in Scotland a couple of weeks ago I got 5 rapid charges for free in Falkirk District who normally charge 25p per kWh.
One bad side effect of having free charging in Scotland is that you get free loaders with fast chargers at home sitting on the nearest public chargers to their homes getting free juice and preventing drivers who really need them getting access so I think sooner or later all Scottish local authorities will start charging
Does no one else have a problem with the well off having their travel subsidised by the general public?
That's basically train travel anywhere in the UK out of the question for you, then.
That’s basically train travel anywhere in the UK out of the question for you, then.
And buses, and to a degree flying, driving and childcare. Where do you stand on state pensions? The NHS and it’s use by drunks, the morbidly obese and people who chose to throw themselves down a mountain on a bicycle during their leisure time?
Does no one else have a problem with the well off having their travel subsidised by the general public?
Since when do you need to be well off to own an EV? They're not all 150k Tesla Model S/X's
Since when do you need to be well off to own an EV? They’re not all 150k Tesla Model S/X’s
Seriously?
And buses, and to a degree flying, driving and childcare. Where do you stand on state pensions? The NHS and it’s use by drunks, the morbidly obese and people who chose to throw themselves down a mountain on a bicycle during their leisure time?
Most of those are used by everyone regardless of wealth or social standing. Electric cars are not common on council schemes, probably due to the cost. Once theyre at the price of a 20 year old Focus then we'll talk.
Seriously?
Er yes.
You can get a Zoe for 5.5k for example, you don't need to be 'well off' for that.
Worth quoting you link for the Zoé 40, Squirrelking, note the cold performance is -10°C:
Real Range between 110 - 235 mi
City - Cold Weather 155 mi
Highway - Cold Weather 110 mi
Combined - Cold Weather 130 mi
City - Mild Weather 235 mi
Highway - Mild Weather 140 mi
Combined - Mild Weather 180 mi
Indication of real-world range in several situations. Cold weather: 'worst-case' based on -10°C and use of heating. Mild weather: 'best-case' based on 23°C and no use of A/C. The actual range will depend on speed, style of driving, weather and route conditions.
Be nice if they specified the speed on the "highway". My trip out to the mountains today in the Zoé 52 driving up to the 80kmh speed limit wherever safe gave a consumption of 10.9kWh/100km so a range of 477km or 298 miles. 20 something °C on the way out, 35°C and A/C on full (eco mode off) for the return.
Just watched PS Automagazin on NTV with the Ioniq 5 featured. The petrolhead journo is no fan of electrics but suitably impressed, especially with the fast charge which was still showing 124 KW at 80% battery.
note the cold performance is -10°C:
Ah, that makes a difference for UK considerations at least.
I'm not knocking them, they are great for what they are and honestly enough for most folks needs. I'm just saying that buying a car based on edge case needs isn't necessarily the best way to go and manufacturers should recognise that. Just because they can doesn't mean they should etc.
Seriously?
My E-Tron costs less per month overall than my last 2 Golfs. The ID3 would even less again if it had been available.
And buses, and to a degree flying, driving and childcare. Where do you stand on state pensions? The NHS and it’s use by drunks, the morbidly obese and people who chose to throw themselves down a mountain on a bicycle during their leisure time?
They all have either a low or no barrier to use. Being able to spend £5k on a second car, or more likely £5k a year leasing one that'd actually be used for long trips isn't open to an awful lot of people.
My E-Tron costs less per month overall than my last 2 Golfs. The ID3 would even less again if it had been available.
If you think being able to lease a £60k car doesn't make you well off I'm not sure what to say.
My E-Tron costs less per month overall than my last 2 Golfs
How about a 20 year old hatchback?
How about a 20 year old hatchback?
Of course they’d be cheaper. 🤷🏻♂️
If you think being able to lease a £60k car doesn’t make you well off I’m not sure what to say.
It’s costs less than a new ICE normal family hatch, I could go cheaper again with other EVs available.
You don't seem to be aware that some people drive cars which have a total cost of about 1 or 2 of your monthly payments of your expensive EV...
You don’t seem to be aware that some people drive cars which have a total cost of about 1 or 2 of your monthly payments of your expensive EV…
You don’t seem aware that just because you own an EV doesn’t make you wealthy, they can be cheaper than an ICE.
You don’t seem to be aware that some people drive cars which have a total cost of about 1 or 2 of your monthly payments of your expensive EV…
I don't get the point, wealth varies across the world. This point of discussion started off with the comment that EVs are only for the well off and the well off are getting subsidised electric.
That's blatantly wrong when you can get very affordable 2nd hand EVs, which are cheaper than many ICE cars. You don't need to be 'well off' to get subsidised leccy.
Find me an EV for less than £5000, but the batteries might be half dead so realistically your talking £7k for a used EV. There are plenty of under £1k IC cars that have got another 10 years of running.
Saying there EVs can be cheaper is like saying eating at a Michelin star restaurant can be cheaper...
I don’t get the point, wealth varies across the world. This point of discussion started off with the comment that EVs are only for the well off and the well off are getting subsidised electric.
That’s blatantly wrong when you can get very affordable 2nd hand EVs, which are cheaper than many ICE cars. You don’t need to be ‘well off’ to get subsidised leccy.
The problem is that the cheaper second hand ev's start at £5k (more than twice what I've ever spent on a car in over 20 years of owning them) are only really any use as a second car as they're both small and have very limited range. £10k gets manageable range but still only in a supermini sized car. They're currently for the well off who have both off street parking and generally normal cars as well.
I've half considered a Leaf for my commute but I'd still need the proper car and it'd probably be better for me and the environment to spend half that amount on a nice commuting ebike instead.
Find me an EV for less than £5000, but the batteries might be half dead so realistically your talking £7k for a used EV. There are plenty of under £1k IC cars that have got another 10 years of running.
Saying there EVs can be cheaper is like saying eating at a Michelin star restaurant can be cheaper…
The battery life thing has proven to not be an issue. If you could get a 20 year EV then they’d be very cheap too, but you can’t yet. The range in older EVs will be rubbish, maybe time to buy a trailer.
No, it’s not like eating in a Michelin restaurant. You’re comparing bangers to new cars, if you can’t afford a new car then it doesn’t matter if it’s ice or EV. Yes, I’m very lucky to have the cash to afford to lease a new car, I know that.
more than twice what I’ve ever spent on a car in over 20 years of owning them
So your definition of well off is someone who can afford a 5k Zoe? Because you've never spent that much on a car.
🙈
Many folk get around just fine on smaller battery Zoes. We all have different lifestyles, not everyone has the same needs as you do.
They’re currently for the well off who have both off street parking and generally normal cars as well.
Or for those who know you can charger elsewhere not just at home and can afford one as they only have one car. They spend their earnings differently so can afford an EV.
By the time used EVs hit the cheap end of the market there will be a healthy industry in patching up aged batteries by replacing the failed cell assemblies with new or nearly new cells (the main thing holding this back is that the packs don't fail in any quantity), there's already a handful of businesses doing this in the UK. There's also a growing aftermarket upgrade parts market allowing early cars run bigger capacity batteries and even allow CHAdeMO equipped Nissans gain a CCS charging port.
You don’t seem aware that just because you own an EV doesn’t make you wealthy, they can be cheaper than a new ICE.
FTFY
I don't care how much your lease is, we're talking about people living at the bottom end of the wealth scale. They cannot afford an EV lease, even on the never ever.
Hence they drive cars worth about two of your monthly payments.
They spend their earnings differently so can afford an EV.
Do they live in it?
By the time used EVs hit the cheap end of the market...
Yes. By the time. Not now.
I don’t care how much your lease is, we’re talking about people living at the bottom end of the wealth scale. They cannot afford an EV lease, even on the never ever.
The ones who can’t afford a new car if it’s ICE? Ever even on a lease.
Do they live in it?
No, like me their mortgage might be small.
We are at that point in current ICE car's life that replacement should probably happen.
But, my thinking now is to get a small cheaper 2nd hand EV for the run around jobs, in/out of town, 20 miles to/from Supermarkets, maybe the 1hr drive to nearest big city. The majority of the driving we do by a long way.
Keep the ICE for the long drives - 4-5hrs to Uni for the kids etc.
That'll keep the ICE going for longer due to limited miles.
Maybe this is madness, so tell me if that's so.
I kind of think that a cheap EV, and learning how best to deal with it, will be the best thing to do before we all have to get EV's in the near future.
Sounds reasonably sensible to me, possibly in time you’ll confidence in the EV will grow so you sell the ICE.
That’s blatantly wrong when you can get very affordable 2nd hand EVs
Affordable for whom?
The cheap EVs are cheap for a reason, they all have significant limitations. We needed to replace the Prius that was probably worth about £1,500, the cheapest EVs were three times that number and had the issues we've already discussed here.
There may be cheap-ish ways to get an EV of some kind but you can't argue that EV motoring is anything like as cheap as ICE motoring. I'm a big EV fan and I'm not hard up but I can recognise that cost is the biggest issue for many people.
Maybe this is madness, so tell me if that’s so.
We were planning that, but we needed to borrow money so a lease on a new EV turned out not that different, we get way better range than we would have done on a used EV we could have afforded, and that means we can drive further in the EV, use it more, and end up saving more again.
Do they live in it?
No, like me their mortgage might be small.
or back in the real world its probably rent.
We are at that point in current ICE car’s life that replacement should probably happen.
But, my thinking now is to get a small cheaper 2nd hand EV for the run around jobs, in/out of town, 20 miles to/from Supermarkets, maybe the 1hr drive to nearest big city. The majority of the driving we do by a long way.
Keep the ICE for the long drives – 4-5hrs to Uni for the kids etc.
That’ll keep the ICE going for longer due to limited miles.
Maybe this is madness, so tell me if that’s so.
That's what we did a couple of years ago - bought a £4k zoe to see how it would work out as a second car. But, as per my previous posts, I've just taken the next step and chopped the diesel estate in for another ev too. Depends how often you'll be doing the long drives and what your appetite to slightly changing how you approach those is.
or back in the real world its probably rent.
Possibly, possibly not.
The ones who can’t afford a new car if it’s ICE? Ever even on a lease.
The discussion was whether you had to be well off to afford an EV. I'd say if you can't afford an EV because you're renting in a council scheme then the answer is yes, you do. Folk in council schemes don't buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.
No, it’s not like eating in a Michelin restaurant. You’re comparing bangers to new cars, if you can’t afford a new car then it doesn’t matter if it’s ice or EV. Yes, I’m very lucky to have the cash to afford to lease a new car, I know that.
No not bangers, like for like. I'm comparing cars of the same age. Your deluded if you think an 7 year old car is a banger! It's like saying that a house more than 3 years old is a slum because the boiler is out of warranty!
It is cheaper to eat at a Michelin star restaurant than some other places because you couldn't possibly stoop to eating somewhere that doesn't have silver service and that's your argument for affordability.
I don't see people who can't afford them not buying EVs as a problem. What I do see as a problem is people buying new ICE cars in the same categories as EVs even when the ICE is more expensive. Two retired people I know have recently bought SUV ICEs that will cost more than an EV over three years even though they haven't driven more than 150km from home in all the time I've known them. They've bought into all the anti-EV rubbish on petrolhead sites (and the main stream media) such as Sqirrelking claiming the Zoé 40 is only good for 100-140miles - though you did eventually post a link to back up the claim with the range as 110-235miles with a cold temperature of -10°C for the lower figure - I take it that was the worst you cound find, Suirrelking.
There's a lot of anti-EV propaganda out there and unfortunately many new car buyers are still buying into it.
Folk in council schemes don’t buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.
Exactly my point. Although secondhand EVs are available they're not banging prices as they've not been around long enough. I'm not sure spending 5k on one makes you wealthy, but yes people living on lowest incomes can't afford 5k for a car. I consider myself very fortunate to live the lifestyle I live.
No not bangers, like for like. I’m comparing cars of the same age.
What like a new EV working out cheaper than a new ice
Your deluded if you think an 7 year old car is a banger! It’s like saying that a house more than 3 years old is a slum because the boiler is out of warranty!
It would be if I had said that. I didnt
The discussion was whether you had to be well off to afford an EV. I’d say if you can’t afford an EV because you’re renting in a council scheme then the answer is yes, you do. Folk in council schemes don’t buy new cars full stop, not the ones in honest work at any rate.
You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don't claim benefits? Or any other combination that don't or cant prioritise finance on a car.
You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don’t claim benefits? Or any other combination that don’t or cant prioritise finance on a car
Fair point . More real world experiance where access to cheap debt doesn't help. It's just not on many folks radar to saddle them selves with continual payments
It would be if I had said that. I didnt
But you did say they were banger! <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">A 7 year old car isn't a banger but that's what you called them.</span>
But you did say they were banger!
Yes, did you see Squirrelking’s 20 year old comparison?
I don’t see people who can’t afford them not buying EVs as a problem. What I do see as a problem is people buying new ICE cars in the same categories as EVs even when the ICE is more expensive. Two retired people I know have recently bought SUV ICEs that will cost more than an EV over three years even though they haven’t driven more than 150km from home in all the time I’ve known them.
This. In spades. It's everywhere you look and the debate is not about the choice a buyer of 5 year old cars makes, because that's always going to be between the options that are available to them in their price range and ultimately doesn't do much to affect the transition from ICE to EV. So the debate is about the point the car enters the market or its manufacture is commissioned by demand. And there are a lot of really silly decisions being made at that point. 2021 Jaguar/BMW/Volvo SUVs et al are ten a penny, awful MPG and cost well into good EV territory. And most of them never leave tarmac or have a human being on the back seat.
If we were getting this right now, then in a few years time buyers of older cars, and I'd normally count myself as one of those, would see a market of good EVs and probably at a favourable financial comparison with ICE options. As it is, I suspect it'll take a little longer, although presumably depreciation of outgoing tech will worsen because of shifting demand.
Yes, did you see Squirrelking’s 20 year old comparison
You quoted me, I was referring to current prices looked up on auto trader. And that £1k 7 year old car will carry on for another 13 years.
£1k for a 7 year old car? That’s some what of a bargain, couldn’t find any that age for that price for my daughter.
£1k is bangernimics territory, buy cheap take the gamble of no huge outlay. Like for like would £5i vs £5k. Yeah you’ll get more for your money with an ice but ev will be cheaper to run.
Yes, I’m very lucky to have the cash to afford to lease a new car, I know that.
I've no problem with how you spend your money and I'll certainly consider spending more on a car once there's something that offers me significant benefit over a cheap old Saab. £27k on a MG5 doesn't seem great. However you, and I'm guessing most other electric car owners don't need free charging as you're perfectly capable of paying for it yourselves. Subsidising the infrastructure in the short term is probably helpful but not the actual energy costs. It's as illogical to me as the cycle to work scheme that excludes minimum wage employees but allows bankers to save £25% on a £10k road bike.
However you, and I’m guessing most other electric car owners don’t need free charging as you’re perfectly capable of paying for it yourselves.
Maybe not but it was one of the appeal for me switching, still works out cheaper for me charging at home now than diesel did or petrol on my hybrid.
That’s how I society works, we all contribute and gain benefits in different ways. I can get no help with replacing my ageing boiler while others can, that’s how it works. It’s not great but you can claim a lot of things are unfair. I’m still fortunate regardless though.
I’m still fortunate regardless though.
Yep, which is why you can have your pick of cars for a large amount of monthly money. Many people can't hence the original comment that EVs are expensive (guessing that is what is was aimed at as I didn't make the comment).
Although it is still better environmentally for the person who can't afford one to get a 20 year old car for £500 anyway rather than bring yet another new car into the world so they are actually less of a problem even if not by choice.
So long as they do lss than 50 000 km in the old car and don't give a damn about the health of their fellow citizens.
You know there are people that are in honest work, rent and don’t claim benefits? Or any other combination that don’t or cant prioritise finance on a car.
Yes. Hence why I was talking about general folk in those situations driving new cars.
Yep, which is why you can have your pick of cars for a large amount of monthly money. Many people can’t hence the original comment that EVs are expensive (guessing that is what is was aimed at as I didn’t make the comment).
This, this and this again. EVs are not inexpensive by any measure. That was the point. If they were inexpensive they would be affordable to the least well off.
They’ve bought into all the anti-EV rubbish on petrolhead sites (and the main stream media) such as Sqirrelking claiming the Zoé 40 is only good for 100-140miles – though you did eventually post a link to back up the claim with the range as 110-235miles with a cold temperature of -10°C for the lower figure – I take it that was the worst you cound find, Suirrelking.
No it wasn't, it was literally the first figure I found and had no reason to disbelieve it. You even said that was close to the figures Renault give so I'm not sure why you're suddenly picking for a fight on that.
As for this idea I'm anti-EV; get a grip ya melt.
I did the bangernomics sums a while ago and found that over 3 years and 30000 miles a £6k Nissan Leaf was cheaper in total than a £1k 2l petrol. That was assuming both cars were worthless at the end of 3 years when the Leaf almost certainly wouldn’t be.
I drove a s/h 2015 bmw i3 for 5 years. Over that time, the TOTAL cost, including insurance, depreciation and 'lecy worked out to be £50.41 per month. That's insanely cheap motoring. Even if i had had to borrow the £15k to buy it, it would have still be insanely cheap, simply because the car didn't depreciate and cost nothing to run.....
It also had the happy side effect of keeping around 35,000 miles off my 335d touring, which i sold earlier this year, with a lovely low mileage and one owner for about £2k over "top book" to the first person to come to look at it....
I agree with you Max, but most folk at the bottom of the social ladder will not have access to £15k of borrowed funds. Even my £6k for a 30kwh leaf would be difficult for most.
bankers to save £25% on a £10k road bike.
bankers can save up to 62% on a 10k road bike. Which, oddly, makes them quite affordable
Many people can’t hence the original comment that EVs are expensive
The comment was you had to be wealthy. It seems to depend people’s idea of wealth and there are different comparisons here. Those spending £500 on a car, of course they can’t afford a EV, those who can afford £5k who can get an get older one. I’d not class someone spending £5k as particularly wealthy. Me, it was cheaper to get an EV, a rather nice one too I’m still exactly wealthy, but I am on a good income.
As for this idea I’m anti-EV; get a grip ya melt.
If you’re starting to throw insults around I’d take a break from the thread.
It does strike me that nearly no one looks at the costs of a car in the same way you might, for example, look at an investment in machinery for work. When I was looking at the decision 3 years ago I tried to evaluate lots of options on a cost per mile travelled assuming my annual mileage basis. Including buy price, tax, fuel, servicing, sale price etc etc. My on the surface outlandishly expensive EV was a chunk more than buying a 3 Yr old Mondeo and driving it to the grave, obvs (and while this is what I might've gone for if the environmental debate was different, they're not really comparable). But it's notable that my dad's old Subaru Forester had cost more per mile than my Tesla probably will, a new ICE SUV would be off the scale pricey and something like a BMW 5 series looked about the same as my similarly luxurious EV (what I judged to be a more appropriate comparison). And I used a DCF method to reflect cost of money and an element of uncertainty, which is probably harder on the EV. Plus the EV market has improved in the 3 years since.
Annoyingly, I lost the analysis in a hard drive that committed suicide.
I’ve never kept a car for a long period, I’m a bit shit like that with cash.
It does strike me that nearly no one looks at the costs of a car in the same way you might, for example, look at an investment in machinery for work.
It depends on how you run your household. For us, everything is operational expenditure. We haven't got the capital to lay out a load of money and bank on getting some of it back in a number of years' time.
Lidl have entered the game.
You'll be able to find the new points and start charging using the Pod Point app as with any other Pod Point.
You'd have thought in this day and age they would have enabled contactless payment on new rapid chargers instead we have to use another bloody app. As it happens I use a Pod Point home charger so already have the app and an account but still...
You’d have thought in this day and age they would have enabled contactless payment on new rapid chargers instead we have to use another bloody app
Many allow both. Some only an app which is ridiculous.
https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/how-to-access-public-ev-charging
Just watched a review on the Kia EV6
Much want.
Just watched a review on the Kia EV6
It does look good, but £50k on a KIA!?!?
At Lidl in France and Germany you just turn up and plug in, no app and no payment. 1h max car park stay in Germany. They have free chargers for e-bikes too in Germany.
I’d have said the same but they really are amazing
Strangely I just bought a Hyundai for the MiL after looking at 10 cars
The build quality was head and shoulders above the other makes.
It does look good, but £50k on a KIA!?!?
With 800V electrical architecture up until now only available on the Porsche Taycan (starting price £85k) and Audi eTron GT (starting price £81k). Bargin really.
Plus if my e-Niro is anything to go by the build quality, fit and finish on current Kias is every bit as good if not better than mid range BMWs and Mercs. I think we really need to recalibrate our expectation of what the S Koreans are offering vs the old German brands.
The Ioniq 5 is 800V according to the ntv PS Automagazin journo.
The Ioniq 5 is 800V according to the ntv PS Automagazin journo.
Both cars use the same Hyundai Motor Group e-GMP platform
The comment was you had to be wealthy. It seems to depend people’s idea of wealth and there are different comparisons here. Those spending £500 on a car, of course they can’t afford a EV, those who can afford £5k who can get an get older one.
Of course these things are relative. Personally an EV would be affordable however that doesn't mean someone earning [url= https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates ]£18.5K[/url] (40h per week at max minimum wage) would think so, that's before you consider workers who can only manage part time hours for whatever reason or the self employed. That's nearly £10K under the average wage [url= https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/july2021#:~:text=Average%20weekly%20earnings%20for%20total%20pay%20was%20estimated%20at%20%C2%A3,(COVID%2D19)%20pandemic. ](£28k)[/url].
Anyway, it's all moot for me as I still don't have a reliable parking space or charging source. 🙁
If you’re starting to throw insults around I’d take a break from the thread.
Sorry, you're right, the sly digs just annoy me. Being civil and reasonable gets me nowhere and I get annoyed, moreso than normal recently. Consider your friendly warning heeded.
Well I agree with you on this one @squirrelking, they aren't cheap and aren't particularly affordable. That's why we are leasing.
Capital allowances on electric cars
Cars with CO2 emissions of less than 50g/km are also eligible for 100% first year capital allowances. This means with electric cars, you can deduct the full cost from your pre-tax profits. On a car costing around £40,000 this could amount to a tax relief of £7,600 in the first year.
It's ok if you are wealthy, you can have your Michelin cake and eat it basically for free...