The 'Average' rider… Mean, Median, Mode, Range?

I’ve been trailing behind the times for years now. My “New to me” bike is a 2010 Bfe 26″, currenty running 140mm Fox 32. Looking at getting a new bike this winter. I’ve been researching and reading, asking riders I meet on the trails, mostly considering hardtails (they realy suit my local woods), really trying to work out the whole 27.5 v 29er thing….. rolling resistance is very high in my woods and I’m loosing speed all the time on the 26″… but wait!!! That’s not the point, that’s the context for my confusion, not what I’m confused about!

So I’ve been reading the reviews, watching people ride on Youtube and in real life…. There’s something wrong… I just don’t see people in real life riding anywhere near the thresholds that are being ridden in the bike reviews. I know people do of course and I’m sure that there are loads of them out there, but I just don’t see many… like hardly any. OK, so I live in London, but I travel and get around the country.

I don’t consider myself a hardcore rider at all. Especially not by the standards of the pros, or even the children of the pros. But in real life on the average trail, I seem to go a lot faster and bigger than most people I meet. But I am miles away from what’s possible. What I mean is most people who are buying bikes are buying bikes that can do amazing things, but they don’t use them for that.

So what is an average rider and how are bikes and reviews related to or designed for the average rider?

Take my Cotic Bfe for example. It’s “overbuilt” to withstand what exactly? WHo can actually break a steel framed hardtail by jumping too high or riding too hard? Really? Are there Cotic Soul owners out there that have broken frames? I like the fact that it takes the 140mm fork, but I can’t imagine my wheels and fork holding out through a hit so that the frame takes the hurt and breaks!!!

Maybe I ride light, but I’m intrigued by the whole relationship of fork travel, wheel strength, frame strength and rider’s ACTUAL ability and use.

Is it a “Youth” thing? Is it that the youngsters are really crazy and are shredding so hard that they really do break bikes?

Are the pro reviewers on STW and Mbr etc etc really in touch with what the “Average” rider does/can do?

Today I met a guy on the trails, a typical modern trail rider… 40s, used to be fit, not so much now, but decent muscle memory of the old days, £2-3ks worth of bike, 140mm travel at least… talked the talk, looked the talk… dropped into this litte line in the woods, got about 1ft of air over a distance of 2ft. With his very expensive 140mm travel trail bike. The sales/review videos show this bike taking 6ft drops, tailwhipped over gaps etc etc.

Is it a comfort thing? THen fair enough, absolutely fair enough, it’s easier to ride, great.

But he bought the bike based on a review of what it can do when being pushed to the limit by a pro bike reviewer. Not a review of someone 2 stone overweight, jumping the height of a curb, saying “It’s a nice colour and it’s really comfy”.

Sorry. I’m just struggling with all these definitions of what bikes do what… If they are being measured by people who are soooo much better than the average rider…. then is their measurement process that relevant?

Mean average – The individual that is a bit of all of us, but may not actually exist

Median average – the Person literally in the middle

Mode average – the most commonly occurring individual

Range average – the difference between each end of the spectrum

Average rider vs pro:

https://media.giphy.com/media/uQLYG683nLGw0/giphy.gif%5B/IMG%5D

Also, go to any local enduro or DH races and you’ll be shocked at how quick the fastest riders are going. I’m reasonably fast within my riding group but end up propping up the bottom of the leaderboard when I race!

It isn’t a youth thing either – the fastest guys in Vets (40-50) are bloody quick and seemingly fearless and although the the Super Vets are rarely quite so fast they’re still shredding compared to most weekend warriors.

Due to the increase in popularity of MTBing I would say the average has gone down.

For example:

I’d probably class this guy as average, or perhaps above average given it’s a big (25-30ft) jump to clear.

This guy (me) I’d class as somewhere near the top of the pile. Lack of full face helmet/body armour and a 100mm travel hardtail is a good indication; where most people are riding this track on a full on downhill bike and a storm trooper outfit. I was even sponsored for a while (by my mum).

Broke a number of hardcore steel hardtail frames over the years; you’ve just got to ride them properly.

I’ve given up riding now; found it too easy. I prefer wind ups on internet forums these days 😉

You just need to look at the bikes the pro XC riders are using to tackle some fairly big features to know that near enough everyone you see down the local trail centre is massively overbiked.

Most people buy full suspension for comfort rather than traction/tracking which is backwards unless you are racing endurance events.

I’m as guilty as anyone, i’ve got 140mm FS which is waaay more bike than i need. I bought it to help me push my boundaries, but its really the slacker HA and larger front tyre i need not the travel.

fifeandy – Member

You just need to look at the bikes the pro XC riders are using to tackle some fairly big features to know that near enough everyone you see down the local trail centre is massively overbiked.

Using an xc bike to ride up your local hill slowly means you’re overbiked. XC bikes are made for riding up hills really fast and riding down hills adequately. Most people’s focus is just different.

I’ve snapped/bent/cracked almost every bike I’ve owned, including a road bike. I’m very average according to Roots and Rain

…bikes the pro XC riders are using to tackle some fairly big features to know that near enough everyone you see down the local trail centre is massively overbiked.

This argument makes no sense for the following reasons:

1. XC races are won on the climbs not the descents.
2. Bikes that climb faster are rarely more fun downhill.
3. Bikes that are good at descending inspire confidence resulting in a virtuous circle for the rider.
4. More burly bikes (heavier build, longer travel, etc) tend to be more durable.

XC race bikes are the wrong bike for most singletrack/trail riding. The rise of enduro took things too far, 150-160mm full-sus becoming more and more popular but since EWS stages have become ever gnarlier, so enduro bikes have become longer travel (most are now 170mm up front) which has opened up a space in the 120-140mm travel area for reasonably slack, long, and low and strong trail bikes.

Just because an XC bike can be ridden down a trail doesn’t make it the best tool for the job – it’s the best tool for riding uphill fast but if that isn’t a priority then ride something more appropriate to what you enjoy.

The correct tool for the average rider would be an XC race bike with a slacker head angle.
I rate myself as a bit of a Sh*t descender, but given what i see at endurance races, a good proportion of the field are worse.
And its probably also a decent bet that people signing up for events (even endurance ones) are above the overall average.

Enduro/EWS stages are totally irrelevant to the average rider as they’d either hospitalise themselves or soil themselves the first time it got steep.

edit long, low, slack and long travel are all pretty much meaningless to the average rider as they are riding mundane trails so slowly that none of it makes any difference.

It’s not the bike…

Who really cares what bike people ride or how well? I often drag the wrong bike with the wrong tyres round to get used to it before a race or going somewhere more suitable or just because it’s a nice day and I feel like it.

@tilly, true, and not true both at the same time.

Absolutely true you can put a terrible descender on any bike you like and they will still be terrible.

But even a noob like me can see a slacker HA, dropper post and large knobby tyre are more confidence inspiring on steeper stuff than a more racey setup.

Overall its a hard question to get an objective answer to on this forum, as you only need to compare segment times of the STW forumites strava group with the overall leaderboard to see ‘average’ here is massively above the true ‘average’.

Who really cares what bike people ride or how well?

Honestly, couldn’t agree more, it’s a short life stop worrying

I bet ‘average’ riders can put more strain through a frame than a good rider. i.e. they don’t really know what they are doing so impact stuff hard etc. By average I’m talking people who race enduring etc.

I think im ahead of you on this one. My current bike is a 120mm 29er. Light but slack. I have owned a 5″ full suss and a 456. I thought they would be tough and let me rude hardest stuff. But stops above a feature it rarely made a difference. Current bike is fast over what i normally ride. Natural stuff in the moors, lakes, local and train centres. Up is as important to me as down as more up means more down and I dont have a lift.

Think about what you need, what you really ride, does it look like the magazines and pro video adverts?

You can always hire a big bike if you go to the alps or for william.

Caveat to all this is ride what youve got and enjoy it. Dont get too hung up on kit it is a small factor in most cases.

I’ve snapped/bent/cracked almost every bike I’ve owned, including a road bike. I’m very average according to Roots and Rain not very good at riding bikes properly.

FTFY

Well above average according to Strava.
Decidedly below average whenever I put on a number plate and go racing.

Got a mate who has snapped everything he owns, all in the usual fail mode spots of the frames – not always the rider 🙂

In terms of average and middle of the road, the newer generation of shorter travel fun angled bikes are a breath of fresh air. It’s the right bike for a lot of people.

I remember the BFe comments that it’s the bike for the rider who has convinced themselves the soul is too xc.

But in real life on the average trail, I seem to go a lot faster and bigger than most people I meet.

**** hell you sound cool.

Mode average – the most commonly occurring individual

White middle-class male with a slight gut riding a couple of grands worth of full-sus?

If people are out there riding then they can ride what they like. Who cares?

Hell of the west last weekend I took a 130mm full susser and finished behind cross bikes. And I had a right laugh.

I think you’ve got to consider people can’t always own 5 bikes too. I’ve got a 100mm xc race type hardtail and a 160mm slack enduro bike. That way I can take the 160mm machine on peak District all dayers and still have a great time with it in the alps or at uplifts. Having a 140mm trail bike and a DH race bike would be better but I’ve got 1 bike to fit both those scenarios.

My hardtail is great for rises out with the family and also light xc type duties such as a blast round sherwood pines.. I’d rather have 2 Hartails where 1 is almost cyclo cross and the other something like a Cotic bfe but again it’s one tool for a few jobs.

Love that video of the two rider types going over the same section/jump! Although the second guy still seems a lot better than most riders I see.

As for all the posts from people commenting on how pointless it is to discuss these things and why not just ride a bike etc etc??? Why don’t you do just that? While you’re at it, why don’t you do it on a nice steel shopping bike from the 60s…. after all that’s what you should be riding if you believe that all geometry/wheel size/suspension level type investigation is pointless… honestly. Or am I being drawn into forum baiting?

In my original post, I mention my current bike is a 26″ Bfe. That’s because all I really do is get out and ride…ride till I really can’t justify NOT getting a new bike! I have tried every obstacle at every trail centre and built what ever I can in my local woods… without ever using my bike as an excuse for not riding well.

On this forum, I find that there are riders who do really know their stuff and have enough riding and bike experience, to offer really valuable insight. The guy mentioning slack angled XC bikes for instance.

I wonder if categorising riders has become to formulaic? As with skiing, skateboarding and many other type sports, you can ride the same piece of planet with very different styles and levels of commitment.

Anyway, my current struggle is in understanding where I sit, within the pro reviewer’s range. I am mostly riding in a forest on natural trails, with very tight single track and short sharp blasts of DH. I have a few built sections with 4ft jumps and drops and gaps etc. Nothing down lasts longer than 90 secs. I pop and hop over everything I can – the Bfe is responsive geometrically but really is heavy and the 26″ wheels do ‘seem’ to loose momentum quickly.

I imagine a 29er being harder to lift and pop but maybe the newer ones (Honzo, Bigwig etc) are not!

But mostly I do seem to need the 140mm at the front and wonder why it seems that bikes that go over that threshold seem to start getting overly burly. I don’t feel like I’m asking much of the back end and am surprised people don’t offer wheel reinforcement before frame?
The Soul for instance seems to not even like being run at 130mm, so there isn’t a sensible option of running that type of tubing at 140mm, with extra tyre and rim.

Peace

I’ve given up riding now; found it too easy. I prefer wind ups on internet forums these days

😀

You just need to look at the bikes the pro XC riders are using to tackle some fairly big features to know that near enough everyone you see down the local trail centre is massively over-biked

.
“Over-biked” is not a real thing surely…? I used to ride 99% of the stuff I ride on a rigid-specific SS 29’er. I enjoyed it but had different fun than I had then and now riding on my hardtail or 160mm FS. Don’t think I hurt anybody!

Most people buy full suspension for comfort rather than traction/tracking which is backwards unless you are racing endurance events.

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I love the comfort for sure but the traction is useful!

Who really cares what bike people ride or how well?

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As long as they are not damaging the trail – not me. Does make me smile occasionally though!

I often drag the wrong bike with the wrong tyres round to get used to it before a race or going somewhere more suitable or just because it’s a nice day and I feel like it.

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Me too!

Caveat to all this is ride what youve got and enjoy it. Dont get too hung up on kit it is a small factor in most cases

Very true!

I’m completely lost. Are you after a recommendation for an upgrade on your bike? And can’t decide if a 29er is suitable even the slack 29ers you mention?

Anyway, my current struggle is in understanding where I sit, within the pro reviewer’s range.

The way bikes currently are, you’d be fine with anything from a 100mm 29er to a 160mm 26er, hardtail or full-sus, assuming appropriate geometry, forks, shock, wheels and tyres.

Our group rides are large enough and diverse enough that on the same reasonably technical singletrack ride we’ll have rigid, hardtail and full-sus bikes, travel all the way up to 165mm, wheel sizes from 26 to 29, tyre sizes from 2″ to 5″, 3x, 2x, 1x and singlespeed gearing, and bikes made of steel, alloy, carbon fibre and titanium.

But mostly I do seem to need the 140mm at the front and wonder why it seems that bikes that go over that threshold seem to start getting overly burly. I don’t feel like I’m asking much of the back end and am surprised people don’t offer wheel reinforcement before frame?
The Soul for instance seems to not even like being run at 130mm, so there isn’t a sensible option of running that type of tubing at 140mm, with extra tyre and rim.

If you’re using all 140mm on the fork it’s either only happening on drops (in which case a full-sus would use much less of the fork travel) or you’re running it too soft (either air pressure, damping or both).

I ran my Soul at 140mm for almost 5 years – it worked just like a BFe at that travel but a bit less stiff. I only moved it on because I found it difficult to swap between it and my much slacker/lower/longer full-sus as I rode the latter more and more.

All blokes toys are marketed to stroke our egos.

We buy cars that can go well over twice the limit. Drills that can hammer through kryptonite, even though we use them for putting up a shelf. We buy watches that can tick away at the bottom of the ocean, yet rarely see a swimming pool and jackets that are suitable for the north face of Everest but more often worn on a damp Sunday in town.

Bikes are no different. It’s nice to know you can ride a bike capable of winning a World Cup or tour stage. Even when you know your body can’t.

I don’t subscribe to this whole notion that the normal weekend warriors on their big full sussers are overbiked using the argument that good riders are on bikes with much less suspension travel and hardtail. If you are not a very good rider then you will need the suspension more than a better rider. You’re far more likely to fluff things up, land at the wrong place, at the wrong angle and not take features as they are designed to be taken – therefore the additional travel saves them. The better people get, the more suspension they can lose and get away with it. I know my suspension has saved me a good number of times – crashing into a rock garden way too fast such that a short travel bike or hard tail would have buckaroo’d me off, not carrying enough speed into a gap jump and landing hard and short, or catching the back wheel on the top of a table top. In all those examples having plusher suspension has probably saved me from a few nasty crashes.

The crapper you are, the more suspension you need. The better you are the less suspension you can get away with – or use the big suspension to do even more impressive stuff. I know that having more suspension than I ‘need’ means I tackle things that I might normally shy away from on a smaller bike, and have a little bit more confidence. It’s all about fun and if a bigger bike gets me over more of the trail/mountain then that’s all more fun for me.

And when i’ve finished my ride I’ll load it onto my car that is bigger than I need for most of my driving, drive along roads full of other cars and motorbikes than have more power and speed than anyone needs, pass roadies on full on Pro-race bikes that are way more than they need, drive to my house that has more bedrooms than I need, have a shower that is more powerful than I need, then sit in front of my telly that is bigger than I need and plays sound through more speakers than I have ears, check my phone that has more computing power and features than I need and so on and so forth. That’s the first world for you. Why should mountain biking be any different.

Just ride what you like. Bikes are so good these days you’re wasting your time pouring over spec sheets and geometry charts. The majority of us can’t really notice or appreciate the difference between the bikes available on the market today. You’re just as well choosing on the basis of brand preference, colour scheme and just what you prefer the look of. Want a Santa Cruz Nomad for posing about your local trail centre? Then go for it. Enjoy it. You’ve worked hard to earn the money to buy it, indulge yourself. That is why most suspension these days comes with lock-out levers.

I would say that anyone on a mountain bike is overbiked for the routes I ride as I whizz past all of them on my fixed track bike. However, I would guess those are not the only routes they ride and I would soon be struggling on anything more challenging as they whizz past me.

Not everyone wants 10 different bikes and just use the one they have – sometimes it will be more than required, other times it will be less.

wobbliscott – Member
I don’t subscribe to this whole notion that the normal weekend warriors on their big full sussers are overbiked using the argument that good riders are on bikes with much less suspension travel and hardtail. If you are not a very good rider then you will need the suspension more than a better rider. You’re far more likely to fluff things up, land at the wrong place, at the wrong angle and not take features as they are designed to be taken – therefore the additional travel saves them. The better people get, the more suspension they can lose and get away with it. I know my suspension has saved me a good number of times – crashing into a rock garden way too fast such that a short travel bike or hard tail would have buckaroo’d me off, not carrying enough speed into a gap jump and landing hard and short, or catching the back wheel on the top of a table top. In all those examples having plusher suspension has probably saved me from a few nasty crashes.

The crapper you are, the more suspension you need. The better you are the less suspension you can get away with – or use the big suspension to do even more impressive stuff. I know that having more suspension than I ‘need’ means I tackle things that I might normally shy away from on a smaller bike, and have a little bit more confidence. It’s all about fun and if a bigger bike gets me over more of the trail/mountain then that’s all more fun for me.

And when i’ve finished my ride I’ll load it onto my car that is bigger than I need for most of my driving, drive along roads full of other cars and motorbikes than have more power and speed than anyone needs, pass roadies on full on Pro-race bikes that are way more than they need, drive to my house that has more bedrooms than I need, have a shower that is more powerful than I need, then sit in front of my telly that is bigger than I need and plays sound through more speakers than I have ears, check my phone that has more computing power and features than I need and so on and so forth. That’s the first world for you. Why should mountain biking be any different.

Just ride what you like. Bikes are so good these days you’re wasting your time pouring over spec sheets and geometry charts. The majority of us can’t really notice or appreciate the difference between the bikes available on the market today. You’re just as well choosing on the basis of brand preference, colour scheme and just what you prefer the look of. Want a Santa Cruz Nomad for posing about your local trail centre? Then go for it. Enjoy it. You’ve worked hard to earn the money to buy it, indulge yourself. That is why most suspension these days comes with lock-out levers.

But right, instead of spending four thousand pounds on a whizz bang big shox bike, why not spend four hundred pounds on a reasonable rigid bike and take a load of time off work to learn how to ride properly?

a load of time off work to learn how to ride properly?

Because most employers are not keen on extended leave…? £4K is a lot of leave at the UK average wage.

Got a mate who has snapped everything he owns, all in the usual fail mode spots of the frames – not always the rider

Not everything, just a lot of things. It is partially the rider.

I was trail building up in Whinlatter on Saturday. Spending a whole day dragging rocks around beside a minor technical section gives you a good insight into the skills of the riders on the “red” trail as they rattle, skid and walk (more often than not with one leg on each side of the crossbar like some bizarre duck/bike combination) past.

I spend a lot of time racing, and it is nice to see more people getting into the sport, but a lot of them look terrifyingly ill prepared for it, compared to the standard of riding I see in my peers and riding buddies.

A lot of us older riders will have witnessed and ridden utter rubbish as far as suspension goes, so a 150mm travel bike that is lighter than some rigid bikes I’ve ridden and climbs well is brilliant. Why wouldn’t anybody want that? That said I had a great time on an old gt tequester with a short stem and wide bars recently, It even still had the original silent hub.

But right, instead of spending four thousand pounds on a whizz bang big shox bike, why not spend four hundred pounds on a reasonable rigid bike and take a load of time off work to learn how to ride properly?

That’s only about 500 hours at minimum wage – you think you can get really good at riding in that little time? Change the hourly rate to a more likely £20 (£40k PA IT manager) and you’re down to about 3 hours a week for a year. Flawed trolling! 😛

Modern full-sus bikes are amazing. I’ve liked my hardtails a lot but my Spitfire is better in every way. I don’t often use all 160mm up front but it’s nice when I screw up (and I often use 140mm+). I often use all 140mm at the back. I don’t do anything big but even on the way to and from work I do a few 2′-3′ fairly flat drops – a lot of companies’ warranties do not cover riding like that on short travel bikes, which I feel is a good indicator of recommended usage and durability. I just worked out I’m doing 1000-2000 2’+ flat drops a year purely commuting – any guesses as to how long I’d get before an XC frame dies from fatigue?

I just worked out I’m doing 1000-2000 2’+ flat drops a year purely commuting

How?

It’s a fairly indirect route from the outskirts of Brighton to the centre, taking in every urban drop on the way! It started when I realised the only way I was going to get comfortable with drops again, following a massive and almost life changing crash a few years back, was to practice lots. My poor Brompton looks very forlorn as I haul one of the big bikes to work every day! 😉

(It’s made quite a difference – I haven’t managed the biggest local stuff but I recently got comfy on a drop to downslope which is 5’6″ vertical lip to landing. I did it 10 times to make sure – and then continued on to work…)

I see. I fit in a few drops on my commute if I take a few detours, but nowhere near that many. Biggest a couple of inches taller than 26×2.1″ tyres. Had a go tonight actually, along the coast, plenty of concrete, a much better option now all the tourists have cleared off, did one ok, but by the time got to the next, chickened out due to poor visibility (ie the sun going down). When I was at Hadleigh, I soon realized 26″ drops flat to flat concrete don’t really help when you get the same but over rougher less predictable ground. I’d say 5’6″ is probably a little beyond the average rider.

I used to commute and occasionally still enjoy a couple of 5ft drops from locks onto the lower canal below. Always good fun on the way back home. 🙂

Manualing a Boris bike is fun