Technique question

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  • Technique question
  • Rorschach
    Member

    Paging Richmtbguru ,paging Richmtbguru.Mr Guru to the forum please.

    Euro
    Member

    My right foot is my forward foot when riding – for jumps, corners, everything really. My pedals aren’t always level mind. I sometimes switch for a change but it feels more awkward. I might be a bit odd though as i’m left footed/handed and my left foot is forward on a skate/snow board. I also air to the left on a vert ramp (can’t do right very well at all).

    Sorry, not really advice and might confuse you even more – but if it feels natural then it probably is.

    edit 😀 Rorschach

    Rorschach – Member
    Paging Richmtbguru ,paging Richmtbguru.Mr Guru to the forum please.

    POSTED 10 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    Thanks, Rorschach, it’s nice to know someone has faith in my abilities 🙂

    Ok then, let’s start this off by saying that theoretically speaking your outside foot on a berm shouldn’t be level but facing down with a good percentage of your body weight pressing down for grip.
    Realistically speaking especially with tracks getting more and more technical this isn’t always possible, ie, rocks and roots might be poking out and it might require a quick shifty of the cranks.
    I would say that in general your good foot would be the one forward when doing jumps, drops and even going around berms 🙂
    The best thing to do is practice this procedure, but also practice with the ‘wrong’ foot forward as well, sounds strange but it is good practice getting used to both feet forward as when being forced into it on a technical descent you will still feel stable on the bike, Go, try it for yourself! I’ve taught this way to a lot of up and coming downhillers, it’s a vital tool for downhillers! Keep safe, and always wear your helmet. 🙂

    Junkyard
    Member

    best foot forward if a jump is coming but you should be able to do both ways whilst favouring one in general. I reckon i could comfortably do 70% of trails either way- not that either way is necessarily fast

    ianv
    Member

    Some French punter giving advice on cornering:

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF5K9V2w6W8[/video]

    Euro
    Member

    …also practice with the ‘wrong’ foot forward as well, sounds strange but it is good practice getting used to both feet forward as when being forced into it on a technical descent you will still feel stable on the bike, Go, try it for yourself! I’ve taught this way to a lot of up and coming downhillers, it’s a vital tool for downhillers!

    Pump tracks are a good place to practice with the wrong foot forward, right coach?

    When riding a berm or even a flat turn with your pedals level should your outside foot be forward? When jumping or setting up for a drop I always favour my right foot forward but it occurred to me that on a right handed turn with my pedals level having my inside foot forward might not be the best for grip or getting on the power directly out of the turn. Any body out there with any constructive advice?

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Outside pedal down for corners. Made a huge difference to my cornering ability.

    Rorschach
    Member

    Yeah….no actually.
    Could’nt find an ironic face,I’m also of the opinion that you’re an ego maniacal socio path.

    mrblobby
    Member

    Blimey, and I thought that outside pedal down (especially weight on that pedal) lifted the bike up and that pedals level was the way to go. Also find level pedals necessary for pumping the berm. Though I’d not dare go against richmtbguru’s advice.

    Edit: zut alores, that French punter is talking more about corners than berms, and a berm isn’t really a corner 🙂

    Rorschach – Member
    Yeah….no actually.
    Could’nt find an ironic face,I’m also of the opinion that you’re an ego maniacal socio path.

    POSTED 17 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    🙁
    I think I will be pressing the report button..you also need help with your literacy!

    Thanks for the input richmtbgur. MrBlobby understands where i’m coming from though, berms are different from corners and level pedals feel right for me for that pump mid berm but when I reach the end and want to pedal out if my inside foot is forward its easy to pedal strike the ground and lift the bike off the ground. I could do a half pedal backwards but backwards pedalling is never a good idea imo.

    Ok then, let’s start this off by saying that theoretically speaking your outside foot on a berm shouldn’t be level but facing down with a good percentage of your body weight pressing down for grip.

    Even this seem contentious and I’ve had mixed advice and result. Flat corners: right on. But specifically why is it important to find more grip on a banked corner than is already conferred by the banking? Is it not the case that pumping and fast flicking between corners is virtually impossible with dropping one foot down, esp. with saddle at normal height? And as you point out, there is the issue of striking a dropped pedal and being tossed into oblivion. Been there, done that, which is why I reverted to level pedals cornering in situations where grip seemed less of an issue!

    Can you explain?

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    My right foot is my forward foot when riding – for jumps, corners, everything really.

    This (pedals level when corning) was the first thing Jedi noticed about my riding and was, in his opinion, a big no-no.

    Blimey, and I thought that outside pedal down (especially weight on that pedal) lifted the bike up and that pedals level was the way to go.

    Jedi teaches outside pedal down for all cornering for (worryingly) exactly the reason Rich mentions.

    Is it not the case that pumping and fast flicking between corners is virtually impossible with dropping one foot down, esp. with saddle at normal height?

    No, you get much faster with practice. If your saddle is getting in the way, then it’s too high. Dropper?

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    My info is also result of a session with the jedi man himself

    Even this seem contentious and I’ve had mixed advice and result. Flat corners: right on. But specifically why is it important to find more grip on a banked corner than is already conferred by the banking?

    Sorry I mis read, and you are totally right about being level on the banked berms is ok but not good practice, I just had flat berms in mind, my fault, sometimes even we get it wrong, but only because I completely mis read, yes a banked berm at speed will have a gravitational affect… Really sorry but I still feel a little upset at how Rorschach spoke to me earlier, especially thinking he we being sincere to start with. 🙁

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    But specifically why is it important to find more grip on a banked corner than is already conferred by the banking?

    It might not be 100% necessary to have the extra grip but why get into the habit of taking certain corners with a sub-optimal technique? If you have trained your body & brain to put the outside foot down around all corners then you just do it without even having to think about it.

    Euro
    Member

    This could get a little confusing. Zilog, you can weight the outside foot with the pedals level/levelish and get the same effect as having your outside foot right down. You can weight the inside foot in the same way. Maybe your coach noticed that you weren’t doing this, so got you to exaggerate the movement in order to get your weight and body into the correct position? It’s a good technique to have, but it’s not the position of the pedal that matters (unless there’s something for the pedal to strike) – it’s how you transfer your weight through it.

    oldnick
    Member

    If you are going to go round a corner with pedals level I would lead with the outer foot so as to help turn your hips into the corner.

    Outer foot down usually though 🙂

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    you can weight the outside foot with the pedals level/levelish and get the same effect as having your outside foot right down. You can weight the inside foot in the same way.

    I suppose so! But of course for flat corners you get maximum pedal clearance with outside down/inside up, and it makes sense (to me) to take all corners with the same technique so it becomes instinctive.

    mrblobby
    Member

    so got you to exaggerate the movement in order to get your weight and body into the correct position? It’s a good technique to have, but it’s not the position of the pedal that matters (unless there’s something for the pedal to strike) – it’s how you transfer your weight through it.

    I think this is probably true and that it’s more about weight shift and body position, and lowering the outside pedal helps get things moving (but you don’t actually need to lower it much – if you look at some of Fabian’s video he’s not lowering that pedal much, other than when he’s deliberately demonstrating the technique.) Find if I lower it all the way I lose both the ability to pump and to soak up the bumps (may be less of an issue on a FS bike.)

    Euro
    Member

    down/inside up

    Yeah, it’s the right way to do it if you want to stay on 😀

    The type of corner plays a big part too. Some corners need the foot right down while others allow you to get away with less which kinda suits my ‘hang off the back a bit too much, but i can’t help it ’cause i’ve long arms’ riding style as it pulls me forward a bit. Might just be a tall rider thing and not useful for everyone. Or might just be me 😀

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    hang off the back

    That was another of Jedi’s big no-nos! 🙂

    Euro
    Member

    We’ll leave fore and aft weight distribution Lvl II for another thread 😉

    mrblobby
    Member

    We’ll leave fore and aft weight distribution Lvl II for another thread

    Found riding a stiff hard tail sorted that out for me!

    Premier Icon benji
    Subscriber

    banked berms is ok but not good practice, I just had flat berms

    Am I missing something, or are not all berms banks round corners, and a flat berm would just be a corner. Explanation with pictures would be great.

    My better technical mate, used the old hans ray of chocolate foot always lead with your chocolate foot, i.e. the one which you prefer.

    I often corner with a half-and-half foot position.

    I.e. my right (chocolate) foot in either the 1-2 o’clock position (for turning right) or the 4-5 o’clock position (for left hand corners). Rarely in exactly 3 or 6 o’clock.

    For perfectly flat smooth corners, I suppose 6 and 12 is OK. Likewise, for smooth berms with no features, 3 and 9. But MTB is never like that.

    FWIW I’m trying to learn to corner ‘wrong’ foot forwards which I find harder. But useful skill E.g. mid-way through a pedal stroke.

    oldnick
    Member

    “you can weight the outside foot with the pedals level”

    Really? Whenever I do that the pedal goes down to the bottom, unless I’m pressing the inside pedal just the same amount.

    Must be something wrong with my bottom bracket.

    The fundamental thing with all this cornering malarkey, is that you need to shift your hips outwards. Everything everyone says about weighting/dropping pedals, twisting hips, pointing belly buttons, looking where you’re going, inside hand down, lean the bike, is all just symptomatic of the big move which is the lateral hip shift.

    If you’re horribly stiff like me then you try to do all of those things and it still doesn’t come together quite right. Then you try to just focus on shifting the hips and immediately everything falls into place and the bike rails corners, right, or left, and when the drift happens you’re so much more balanced as the bike drifts into you and you can adjust, rather than the bike skidding away from under you. If you can ski, just do what you’d do on skis and the bike will lean and turn.

    Getting comfortable with swapping feet is definitely a good thing too.

    stumpy01
    Member

    richmtbguru, can you explain what you mean by ‘flat berm’ as opposed to ‘banked berm’?
    I thought a berm is a banked corner, so how can you have a flat one? Isn’t that just a corner?

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    you need to shift your hips outwards

    If you can ski, just do what you’d do on skis and the bike will lean and turn.

    I don’t follow this and can’t picture it. Unless skiing technique from beginners to pros has changed massively since I last looked, surely these two statements are completely opposite ends of the hip-shifting spectrum. I need to unread this so I don’t have a horrible crash trying to do it 🙂

    …unless I’ve completely mis-understood what you’re trying to say. Can you expand?

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Outside pedal down also drops your centre of gravity

    Premier Icon breadcrumb
    Subscriber

    banked berms is ok but not good practice, I just had flat berms

    Am I missing something, or are not all berms banks round corners, and a flat berm would just be a corner. Explanation with pictures would be great.

    I thought this too. Odd.

    Premier Icon akira
    Subscriber

    Point your hips in the direction you want to go is a better way of describing the hip action.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    I think you’ll find Mr Barel has got it covered in that vid – outside foot and in particular heel down, lean the bike not your body, outside elbow high. The flatter the corner the more you need to exagerate the action to acheive the turning effect. Bermed corners need less effort to turn the bike for a given speed but hit them faster and you will need to hold the body position to control the bike and hold the exact line you want through the corner. Don’t touch the brakes once you are 1/3 of the way through the corner and the bike will accelerate out as it unloads. Mr Barel would also say think more about flow and less about getting on the pedals ASAP.

    SOAP
    Member

    Only ever outside down on flat corners or if I’m not going to make the turn on a berm.
    For berms pedals level use your speed and commit to the berm trying to keep your bike at 90 degrees to the berm/bank,big or small even a rut you can use.
    Never inside down or you will die.

    ianv
    Member

    Mr Barel would also say think more about flow and less about getting on the pedals ASAP.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSSi7n9RlHc[/video]

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZKhkyoOcdg[/video]

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    I think it all gets confusing because coachs like Jedi teach outside foot down but watch a lot of the pros riding and they to corner, pedals level a lot. (Not a pop at Jedi, enjoyed a day in his company 🙂 )

    For an example of riding like skiing, Danny Hart in Champery!

    devs
    Member

    As I was a skier before I was an mtber I used to try and use the skiing analogy but, whilst it helps initially, it’s wrong in my opinion. The main problem is that a good skier will always be facing down the fall line no matter which way he is turning. In mountain biking the more effective technique is to shift the whole body above the outside pedal and face the exit point of the turn. This means you can be side on or even slightly back on to the fall line for a period.

    dantsw13
    Member

    Pedalling on berm exit with the bike still leant over unweights the front wheel, losing grip, and leads to imminent death!!

    If your saddle is low enough, you can drop your outside pedal, but still remain enough leg flex to absurd bumps/roots etc.

    Van Halen
    Member

    Pedalling on berm exit with the bike still leant over unweights the front wheel, losing grip, and leads to imminent death!!

    why? surely you are busting a pj wearing power wheelie like all good pros? or if you have the skills manualing out after pumping the berm.

    outside foot down for me and carve like a goodun.

    if its a long berm feet up. but only cos you have time to enjoy the scenery before you have to do something.

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