I’m doing more and more road riding these days and I would like to upgrade my wheels on my bike as a treat to my self for reaching my first major weight loss target.

I have just lost a smidge over 16kg and dropped 5 and a bit points on the BMI scale to move from the verges of being clinically obese to being only over wight. Having lost the wight of my full sus bike I plan on loosing the weight of my road bike on top of that.

I am currently 89kg with the plan to get to 80kg, my hope is that I could build a pair of wheels that weigh in at between 1500g and 1700g for £300ish that will be good for a long time.

The current wheel set on my bike is Fulcrum racing 7’s from a few years ago and they weigh in at just over 2000g so the closer I can get to 1500g the better really. The racing 7’s have held up well so far but I would prefer hubs with sealed bearings, for easier maintenance and I can use the racing 7s as my commuting wheels.

I have built some mountain bike wheels and with them I have always kept it pretty simple 32 hole hub, DT Swiss comp spokes, 3x spoke pattern to whichever rim I have chosen and brass nipples. However road wheels seem to use radial and 2x spoke patterns and some wheels have different crosses drive to non-drive side.

This all has me a little lost.

I have had good experiences with both Hope and DT Swiss hubs so I was thinking of building a road wheel set round a set of Hope mono RS’s or DT Swiss 350 hubs with possibly some Velocity A23 rims as these seem to get good reviews and come in at a decent price point to allow me to buy spokes etc.

Please can you help me out with what I should be considering with spoke count and lacing patterns for a solid road wheel build and also any info on spokes, aero or otherwise would be good to.

Cheers

Rusty Mac

Rims

Velocity A23
H Son Arch
Pacenti sl23

All great rims

For longevity i’d go with 32 spoke rear and 28 front 3 cross both sides

As for hubs hope RS are good but the freehub sound can get annoying on the road

20F/24R is pretty common on road wheelsets these days, but… These wheels usually have heavier/stronger rims than the likes of an Open Pro or Velocity A23 fitted. The more weight/strength you take out of the rim, the more spokes you need to keep the wheel strong really.

What bike have you got? What sort of speed do you average and how long do you ride for? What do you want out of your new wheels?

A23’s on DT350’s with 28/32 spokes will probably still come in under 1700g and be pretty reliable. Open Pro’s on Hope Pro 3’s with 32 spokes are about 1750g the pair and are strong and reliable, if not the last word in high performance.

I’m running the Hope Pro3 SP’s on Stans Alpha 400’s 20/24 and they come in at just over 1500g. I’ve set them up tubeless as well, which is a big benefit IMO, and am really impressed so far. You can go lighter with the 340’s but they’re significantly less stiff than the 400’s for a marginal weight saving that I didn’t think was worth it.

Campagnolo Zonda £250 on wiggle at the mo, 1550g . Well done with the weight loss, very similar place as me, I did get down to 85kg but back to and stuck now at 89kg need to loose seven to be officially unfat.

https://flic.kr/p/nLysnU
Above is the bike, hopefully I don’t get as much of a flaming as hora for posting the pic.

The bike is mainly used for commuting at the moment but as the weather is nicer now and a couple of colleges have just picked up new bikes on the bike to work scheme the plan is to get out for longer rides with the thought of trying our hands at a sportive or coast to coast ride next year.

Speed wise I am not setting any records right now I can do the 11.5k commute in 25 mins.

I was sure there was a link in one of the carbon wheel threads about spoke count, type of spokes and tensions etc. If anyone finds it I would appreciate the link again. My Googlefu has let me down on this occasion.

The reason I am asking is I am little confused by the suggestions of a 28F/32R build with Velocity A23 rims when the likes of Strada and just ride along seem to recommend these as a 20F/24R build.

Ian W I found my fitness pal a big eye opener and great for a reality check of the calories what I was eating. If you are struggling I would suggest giving it a bash for a few weeks to see if there is anywhere obvious you can cut back. Also strangely I found that by recording everything it really made me think about additional snacks or extras with meals.

Here goes….I have a set of Superstar Elite 30 road wheels on my bike.

They’re great, a genuine 1500g weight with replaceable cartridge bearings…. and £170.

Can’t go wrong, strong build too, been on them for a year now with no problems…. they do a lighter set that are 1300-1400g for closer to £200 also.

(awaits flaming)

Mavics.

I am not adverse about a factory build however I like the idea of standard j bend spokes. Also nothing against superstar but these wheels are ment as a treat to myself so I would like them to be a little special and having had good results with Hope and DT hubs in the past I’d like to try and stick with them.

Hope hub, mavic rim, dt or sapim spokes. Job done.
Or to save a few £££ look at the Hope Hoop complete builds-they’re already put together, but sometimes need the spoke tension checking before riding.

Just talk to strada, my recommendation would be h plus son archetype on Chris kinds and cx ray spokes 24/28.

don’t go 20/24 with ‘tradional builds’ imo, the factory builds can go lower as its designed as one unit.

whatever you choose, and there isn’t anything specifically wrong with factory wheels, look at the wider rims as they improve cornering and comfort

Wider rims not essential – just use wider tyres.

Low spoke counts are weaker and tougher to build, for saving not much weight – leave to the factories.

Radial/2 cross have **** all benefit and save a few grams.

I like stans/tubeless, I have my 340s on a cheap ebay front wheel and a 105 rear, 1600gm I think.

I have factory built and handbuilt, and have now come to the conclusion that for normal riding, I prefer handbuilts.

Yes there is a trend for 21mm rims (and have some on Giant carbon wheels), but I am perfectly happy with 19mm Mavic and 25c tyres

24/28, three cross Sapim laser, Open Pro or CXP33 and a hub to suit budget will be 1700g, £2-400 and the comfiest wheels you’ll ride.

The reason I am asking is I am little confused by the suggestions of a 28F/32R build with Velocity A23 rims when the likes of Strada and just ride along seem to recommend these as a 20F/24R build.

You may have lost a tonne of weight already, but at 89kg, you’re still quite a lot heavier than the average roadie. I’m 75kg, running 20F/24R Hope Pro3’s on Stans 400’s, and to be honest, great wheels as they are, I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone heavier or more powerful than myself. Larger guys need stronger wheels. To finish first, first you have to finish and all that…

Also, I’d probably be looking to go for a Carbon (or at least a high end ally) bike as a performance upgrade more worthwhile than just putting high end wheels on a more modest bike.

Here goes….I have a set of Superstar Elite 30 road wheels on my bike.

They’re great, a genuine 1500g weight with replaceable cartridge bearings…. and £170.

Can’t go wrong, strong build too, been on them for a year now with no problems…. they do a lighter set that are 1300-1400g for closer to £200 also.

Glad you’re one of the exceptions getting good performance from your Superstar wheels/hubs, rather than the rule that they are often poorly built, but worse still, the bearings and freehub life can often be measured hours rather than weeks, months or years.

Mavics.

That was insightful! 😕

Care to suggest a model?

I am not adverse about a factory build however I like the idea of standard j bend spokes. Also nothing against superstar but these wheels are ment as a treat to myself so I would like them to be a little special and having had good results with Hope and DT hubs in the past I’d like to try and stick with them.

Couldn’t agree more. Hope hubs are pretty reliable, and if there is an issue, they have probably the no.1 reputation for customer care in the industry. DT Swiss are simply just the best hubs!

Or to save a few £££ look at the Hope Hoop complete builds

£380 buys you a pair of 32 spoke Pro3’s on either Mavic Open Pro’s, or Stans Alpha 400’s. The former is about 1750g the pair, the latter under 1700g and tubeless ready.

don’t go 20/24 with ‘tradional builds’ imo, the factory builds can go lower as its designed as one unit.

It’s more to do with rim strength than the “designed as a unit” as you put it. You can happily do 20/24 handbuilts, but you’ll need thicker, stronger spokes and/or deeper/stiffer rims. One of the stiffest off the shelf wheelsets is/was the DT Swiss RR1850’s. These have 20 spokes up front, and 24 rear. The spokes are heavily bladed (much thicker profile than a CX-Ray), and the 30mm deep rims are almost 600g each! So you can get stiff and strong with low spoke counts, but you have to add material elsewhere to get the desired result.

Wider rims not essential – just use wider tyres.

And wider rims and wider tyres isn’t advisable because? Wider rims make more sense, as has been proven in MTBing now, and the roadies are starting to cotton on. A 21-23mm rim with a 25c tubeless tyre will give you a magic carpet ride, at only about 75-80psi, it will roll faster over our rough UK roads than a 23c on a narrow rim at 120psi, and it will give you more grip in the corners.

24/28, three cross Sapim laser, Open Pro or CXP33 and a hub to suit budget will be 1700g, £2-400 and the comfiest wheels you’ll ride.

You’ve clearly not tried wider rims with tubeless tyres then! I’ve run Open Pro’s, Aksium’s, and various much stiffer wheels too, but can confirm that without doubt a wider rim with a 25c tubeless tyre is more comfortable, but not only that, it’s quicker too!

Here goes….I have a set of Superstar Elite 30 road wheels on my bike.

They’re great, a genuine 1500g weight with replaceable cartridge bearings…. and £170.

Can’t go wrong, strong build too, been on them for a year now with no problems…. they do a lighter set that are 1300-1400g for closer to £200 also.

I’m trying to buy a set of their very well-reviewed Pavé 28 wheels but I can’t get their website to work and can’t get any reply on the phone. Have also emailed Superstar but no reply.

What is this £200 set?

Mboy’s post. End of thread.

Well not quite. I would just ask whether a £300 wheel set if any designation is going to be much of an upgrade to your existing wheels. Have you verified the weight if the Fulcrums?

Reducing weight in the wheels will make a significant difference but if you’re riding above 20mph, areo benefits tnd to trump weight savings.

I have been on the same path as you OP. Started riding the road again two and a half years ago (I was a roadie from 12 to 16) then more seriously last year and almost exclusively this year. I’ve dropped 25kg (i was clinical obese, still technically over weight now but only have four more kilos to lose not to be).

I had Mavic Aksiums on my road bike and ‘upgraded’ them to Archetype rims on CX Ray spokes and CK hubs, 32 spokes front and rear, a pretty standard build. Yes they were significantly more comfortable but that was the only differce I noticed.

However when I stuck a pair of Dura Ace C35s on the bike, that was a heck of an improvement. You have this sense maybe placebo, that you’re not working quite as hard to hang on to speed above 20mph. Yes they were £1000 (discounted by 25% and you can still get them for this price) but the Archetypes were around £750 so in terms of price vs performance, the Dura Aces win hands down.

Just make sure that you really are upgrading the performance of th wheels rather than just comfort (assuming of course that’s what you’re looking for).

As another “born again” roadie I also had the “new wheels” yearning after a year or so on the stock Giant wheels (which spec up pretty close to the usual suspect £200-300 wheelsets so aren’t exactly tat).
Spoke to my LBS about it and they said much the same as Geetee above – forget about an upgrade unless you spend over £500 and then probably quite a bit over £500 – so thanks to good advice I’m now happy on my stock wheels but now shod with some Schwalbe 1s and latex tubes.

Schwalbe 1s and latex tubes.

My pleasure 😉

And no, I haven’t run the Giants tubeless (they can be), but think that the 25c Schwalbe One/Latex tubes I run on two bikes (with narrow and wide rims) have the same sublime riding characteristics for less weight.

Hope hubs, Macic Open Pro rims, DT revolution spokes with brass nipples. Not the lightest, but strong and very reliable, and easy to service. Unless you’re racing, then use whatever your sponsors give you. Not sponsored? Get the above wheels then. For the money, you won’t get better.

forget about an upgrade unless you spend over £500

I’m not convinced by that. The standard Bontrager wheels I’ve had on Trek bikes have come with low spoke counts and with that has come a certain amount of brake rub when climbing / sprinting out of the saddle. A good build for around £200 (couple of years ago) of Mavic Open Pro / Tiagra hubs and the rub was gone so I consider it an upgrade even if the weight was not reduced. New bike and I have the same ‘issue’ (18 spoke front does look nice I guess) so soon I hope to have some new wheels (definitely under £500).

so I consider it an upgrade even if the weight was not reduced

Almost certainly they would have been heavier so you might even consider it a ‘downgrade’.

Mboy,

Cheers for the lengthy and informative reply. I fully appreciate I have a way to go with losing the weight and figured that as I am still at the heavier end of the spectrum that would be the reason for not going low on the spoke count but it is good to have confirmation.

Wider rims make more sense, as has been proven in MTBing now, and the roadies are starting to cotton on. A 21-23mm rim with a 25c tubeless tyre will give you a magic carpet ride, at only about 75-80psi, it will roll faster over our rough UK roads than a 23c on a narrow rim at 120psi, and it will give you more grip in the corners.

This appeals, the roads up here are not too bad but in places are far from ideal. I have done a little pricing up at the weekend and could build up a theoretical 1600g wheel set in budget with the following. Weight is based on a 32 hole build, does this seem a sensible?

What would peoples thoughts be on saving a few grams and going 28 hole front and rear?

DT Swiss Build
Front Wheel
Hub 43.56 DT 350 Koo-bikes – 149g
Rim 45 Velocity A23 Just Ride Along – 426g
Spokes 16.8 Dt Swis Comp Rose Bikes – 156g
Nipples 1.69 DT Brass Rose Bikes – 28g

Rear Wheel
Hub 113.76 DT 350 Koo-bikes – 265g
Rim 45 Velocity A23 Just Ride Along – 426g
Spokes 16.8 Dt Swis Comp Rose Bikes – 156g
Nipples 1.69 DT Brass Rose Bikes – 28g
£284.3 1632g

[edit] ah arse all thoes spaces and it still looks naff [/edit]

“Almost certainly they would have been heavier so you might even consider it a ‘downgrade’.”

weight isnt everything so i wouldnt consider it a downgrade.

flexy wheels are HORRIBLE to ride – but dont let that put you off.

equally if your not climbing alot then aero is a price worth paying.

tbh as i said to russ last night – he plans to use these as evening and weekend wheels – i said “yep this is the start of another bike….. youll never change them over”

I’m considering a similar set of wheels for my CX bike, but with Mavic 719s. Have you looked at those?

Mavic 719s. Have you looked at those?

The lack of a brake track might be a problem.

weight isnt everything so i wouldnt consider it a downgrade.

It’s not, but only marginally so. Between cheap and light and cheap and strong, I would rather have light and strong.

i missed the part where his bontragers were light and strong….

all i gleened from his post was that they were flexy…. can be as light as you like but if they are flexy you can keep em.

fubar – Member

I’m not convinced by that. The standard Bontrager wheels I’ve had on Trek bikes have come with low spoke counts and with that has come a certain amount of brake rub when climbing / sprinting out of the saddle…

Oh, the standard PSL1s I have on my Giant have given me no issues like that but I think they are pretty much a £200 wheelset anyway?

Well done on the weight loss, putting it on is far more fun.

As for wheels, I prefer hand built, like you I am a “well built” gentleman, I got mine built by Strada and they have been fine for nearly a year, including being hammered on Benelux cobbles several times. I went for, 28 / 28 lacing, H plus Son Arch rims on Carbon Ti hubs, They are over your budget but seriously, a light weight set of wheels revolutionises a ride. losing rotating mass is the easiest way to gain big dividends.

This appeals, the roads up here are not too bad but in places are far from ideal. I have done a little pricing up at the weekend and could build up a theoretical 1600g wheel set in budget with the following. Weight is based on a 32 hole build, does this seem a sensible?

What would peoples thoughts be on saving a few grams and going 28 hole front and rear?

A23’s are about 450g each not 425g, but even still your weights are off a little I’d say. DT Spoke Calculator reckons 1788g for the pair if 32 spoke, or 1733 for 28 in the specs you quote.

Going 28 front and back would be ok, but it doesn’t yield a massive weight saving. DT Revolutions on the front and NDS rear (wouldn’t run DS rear, too flexy IMO) and ally nipples will bring the weight down to around 1620g overall, but it’s the fairly heavy (by road bike standards) hubs and rims that are holding the weight back. You could lose 100g off the pair of hubs quite easily (though you may compromise on the quality of course), and you can easily lose 30g per rim without compromising strength. Of course, as has already been pointed out, weight isn’t everything if the wheels are a flexy mess, but until you’re average speed is up above 20mph or so consistently, aero wheels will have little or no benefit overall.

And no, I haven’t run the Giants tubeless (they can be), but think that the 25c Schwalbe One/Latex tubes I run on two bikes (with narrow and wide rims) have the same sublime riding characteristics for less weight.

Try them tubeless, seriously…

Running 25c Tubeless Schwalbe 1’s on Stans Alpha 400’s, I’d say it’s about 80% of the performance benefits of tubs with none of the drawbacks. Tyres can make as much if not more of a difference to performance than the wheels can if you’re on a modest budget.

Alloy nipples – really.

You know how we( me and rusty) live in the north east of scotland where they grit the roads 9months of the year(certainly feels like that)

Alloy nipples I know won’t work for me so that weight saving is off the cards, cycled home tonight in the rain and my leggs looked like I had ridden home through the forest.

Weight wise I just went with the weights on the dt swiss and JRA sites.

And wider rims and wider tyres isn’t advisable because? Wider rims make more sense, as has been proven in MTBing now, and the roadies are starting to cotton on. A 21-23mm rim with a 25c tubeless tyre will give you a magic carpet ride, at only about 75-80psi, it will roll faster over our rough UK roads than a 23c on a narrow rim at 120psi, and it will give you more grip in the corners

My point is I don’t see the benefit in wide rims to compensate for restricting choice.

Wider rims make sense at low pressures, for road bikes there may be miniscule aero benefits but the small increase in volume can more affordably be achieved with a wider tyre.

A 2mm wider rim is equivalent to a 0.6mm wider tyre. You have been sucked in.

Ok so an update, the rear wheel will be 28 hole and built around a white DT Swiss 240s hub that I managed to pick up cheaper than a hope or DT 350 hub.

If anyone can point me in the direction of a DT 240s 28 hole front hub in white that’d be fantastic.

Oh and did you see that… that was the £300 budget rapidly going out of the window.

Terry I know you said go 32 hole but at least this way you can borrow the tool to fix that broken wheel in your garage.