Are we? And why would it be ‘good’?

Cos it brings us all closer together 🙂

SFB thats not what I said – CBT is a useful tool in treating depression – one of many tools available. Suitable for soem people with smoe tipes of depression.

No need to call anyone a tool TJ.

Just noticed this thread and how long it is..

Top tip: read threads backwards for entertainment on stw to help with depression! I couldnt be bothered starting from the start but its quite a good way to start by scanning the tags to get a jist on whose causing havoc/not got much else to do/having yet another easy day at work.. then work back for maximus chortleus.

SFB thats not what I said

TJ: You clearly have some sociopathic / personality disorder traits

and this from berm_bandit earlier:

SFB. Refresh my memory, you are a Tory voter right?

no friggin WAY! I believe in “to each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities”

CBT is a useful tool in treating depression

Surely it’s all about learning to ride a motorbike? I’m not sure I follow.

TJ: You clearly have some sociopathic / personality disorder traits

No arguments there 🙂

Hear , hear Muddypuddle!
I couldn’t agree more.
Very well put.

Cos it brings us all closer together

we sociopaths are given to lashing out if crowded…

Just had a quick scan through here, and yikes this is really getting silly now.

SO for the record :
1) I totally disassociate myself with the silly tags at the top of this thread, even if I knew how to do that I wouldn’t.
2) The tory voter thing I was seeing an attitudinal link between SFB’s simplistic outlook toward dealing with depression and the current tory attitiude to the feckless poor/deficit/cuts. Simon chose not to respond so I chose not to pursue it
3) I am not in any way having a go at Simon, simply pointing out that “Ifixed myself in two weeks” is akin to the MTFU etc attitudes to depression, which are neither helpful or possible as solutions.

The rest is bollocks.

Simon chose not to respond so I chose not to pursue it

I forgot!

simply pointing out that “Ifixed myself in two weeks” is akin to the MTFU etc attitudes to depression

sorry, I just don’t agree! The whole point of the CBT is to explain how negative thinking patterns can cause a downward spiral of depression, each feeding the other. These patterns can become heavily ingrained over the years, and perhaps I was lucky (or desperate) to be able to take on board the simple exercises that Burns offers in his book, together with various other attitudinal modifications, so quickly – it really was an epiphany! However, the speed of change isn’t really germane, my point is, you CAN make a big difference to your life and happiness level using CBT, and the fact that it can be achieved without medication doesn’t belittle the previous suffering.

It’s true that the method emphasises self reliance, but as a positive reinforcement, and not implying that a depressive was formerly weak

The rest is bollocks.

I didn’t think that – it’s been quite interesting. It’s mere rhetorical carelessness to dismiss arguments you disagree with as rubbish without addressing their content, and I prefer to assume that counterarguments are genuinely held and have potential merit until proved otherwise.

Blimey !

Rephrase : For The rest is bollocks READ: The rest of what I have posted is bollocks

Better now?

Regarding the CBT thing, I’m really glad you have had your road to Damascus moment with your book. Don’t kid yourself that you are fixed, and beware of the fact that one of the factors in depression is this pendulum swing from one position to another. It does not mean you are “fixed”. That is the entire point. I’m off now as I have a life and being on the end of an SFB Troll doesn’t feature too highly in whats important in it, fun though it might be.

cheers for the chat

Bye

Why not get a list of what techniques work for each of us in terms of either keeping us possitive mental state or for those of us suffering from depression, what helps you through.

If there is anyone that has managed to completely over come it, let’s here from them.

If depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, it will be down to something in the physiological process not functining properly.

More likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.

In effect the brain is being starved of what it needs for higher functioning, I would tihnk this would also cause a chemical imbalance.

Can we please try and analyze the situation and see if we can work out a technique that will improve and hopefully remedy the situation.

Surely that is a better way to spend our time than denying people the right to have their opinion and arguing over that right, now I’m all for causing havoc and winding people up on threads that I feel are crap and useless.

But this is a serious issue and I would like to have a go at understanding what is causing it and finding a way to help people come to appreciate the value they have.

Don’t kid yourself that you are fixed

well, OK, I’ve already acknowledged that the depressive tendencies still exist within me. But now I have a set of mental tools for tackling them, and the fundamental knowledge that I am in control of my feelings and not the other way round. In the same way that negative thinking invites depression, positive thinking overcomes it, and I reject the idea that I am kidding myself when I’ve been observing it working day to day for 9 years.

Whilst acknowledging that depression can reoccur, the description if it as a pendulum implies a kind of inevitability, encouraging a passive response.

If there is anyone that has managed to completely over come it, let’s here from them.

Went from being a suicidal wreck to being fully functional, happy, and side effect free by going to the doctor after 5 years of resisting and getting prescribed lamictal.

Simonfbarnes I hereby give you permision to have over come your depression and to know yourself.

All things are relative to the individual, two people are at the top of a mountain, looking at the same view. one says this is breath taking and wears a grin. The other says I need a crap and this is sh1t, how the f@ck do we get down and wears a frown.

Which one is right?

Which one is right?

Which one is happier?

Interesting thread, which I have been staying out of as I have little knowledge, however what SFB is saying intrigues me.

So, SFB if you “thinks” you is cured (not my words) then surely that is as good as being cured, as it’s all down to self-perception ? Obviously this might not work for everybody but in real day to day life of assessing symptoms, sounds feasible.

However, I feel fine, but perhaps I am imagining that, and I am really about plunge into the dark place ?

Interesting idea.

P.S and is it OK now to crack a joke about the lunatics taking over the asylum in here now ?

reading BrudeWee’s post I’ve realised that I may be in the category of people inherently unsuited to drug therapy. I always resist taking any kind of drug (except caffeine) and am always sceptical about their effectiveness. Although I’ve seen SSRIs described as “happy pills” all they ever made me feel was emotionally numb and indifferent, not a state I’d wish to endure, though somewhat better than suicidal. Loss of sexual capacity made them useless as a long term solution. I know I’m not unique in this.

So, SFB if you “thinks” you is cured (not my words) then surely that is as good as being cured

actually, I think it’s better than being cured, as the techniques I’ve learned are more widely applicable. Once you realise that you need not take responsibility for how other people claim you’re making them feel, you become immune to many manipulative ploys, and it’s completely quelled my former anger management issues too

More likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.

Leave it to the experts mate 🙂

Simon – I believe that you do need to take SOME responsibility for how what you do or say makes other people feel. But that other person must not pile guilt onto you either.

Seems to me that you were surrounded by some right crappy people for a long time.. 🙁

I believe that you do need to take SOME responsibility for how what you do or say makes other people feel

you may if you wish, but in fact you cannot make someone feel something, they have to make an active (though sometimes unconscious) choice to feel that way, and for that matter the feelings invoked bear no relation to your intentions.

Seems to me that you were surrounded by some right crappy people for a long time

not generally, it’s just that since I took on CBT I’ve come to understand the mechanisms involved

If how you behave/what you say winds someone in your life up, you may choose to modify that behaviour.

molgrips – Member

More likely than not poor breathing, leading to poor digestion, leading to poor assimilation of nutrients leading to poor performance of internal organs.

Leave it to the experts mate

What experts are you refering to, the ones that have had such blinding success that the amount of derpession is greater than ever before?

I have a different philosophy to you molgrips, I prefer to research subjects for myself. If a technique works I would say use it, if it does not, then reject it. If information leads to a better understnadning of a subject or situation, it has value if not, then it does not.

As for leaving things for others (experts) to deal with, I think the state of the world testifies to that not being a good idea or a very effective philosophy for that matter!

To the OP. I hope you’re not feeling too bad today. Have a hug and a kiss x

I bought and read “Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy” by Dr Burns (as recommended by SFB), it worked wonders for me, so much so, that I bought another book of his “The Feeling Good Handbook”, which built on what I had learnt from the first book.

They are accessibly written, very easy to read, with easy to grasp ideas and short sentences. I say that not to demean you but because I know when one is depressed one often has a short attention span (along with a tendency to self-destruct).

Good luck.

If how you behave/what you say winds someone in your life up, you may choose to modify that behaviour

of course you may, but this need not be your default stance to everyone! It depends if it’s collateral behaviour or inherent personality, and vice versa, if something a friend does winds you up, it may be better to accept that’s just who they are

Simon, ease off eh? I understand perfectly where you’re coming from, but for people who don’t think the same way, your remarks come across as insensitive and deliberately provocative and upsetting, whether you mean it that way or not.

What simon is saying, is that you can influence the way things effect you, you can come to understand yourself and then rather than denying or suppressing emotions which is very dangerous.

You can learn to redirect them and thus not have to carry a huge burden around.

He’s not saying that people are not suffering, nor is he saying that people are this that and the next thing. He’s simply putting across his experience and how he learnt to overcome it.

Simon, lets here some of your technique, I think you will find that it is very similar to the Alexander technique and Zen, although to be honest all techniques for conditioning the mind have a same common thread.

karinofnine I’m so pleased to hear that 🙂

I prefer to research subjects for myself

Hehe.. well ideally me too. But I don’t have dozens of lifetimes to devote to examining the causes of the myriad forms of depression. I for example can’t develop drugs in my kitchen. Or do functional MRI scans.

I think Simon and BruceWee have some faith in experts, so it seems. Either pharmaceutical or psychological.

It’s defintitely worth listening to experts. Don’t be a slave to them, but they (being experts) usually have a lot of knowledge.

One of the greatest scientists ever put it nicely:

“If I have seen further than other men, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.”

As a long term lurker on here,and a sufferer of major Depression for longer than I care to remember, I have felt compelled to respond to this thread.

It saddens me to see such well established contributors bickering with each other on such a serious, and largely miss-understood illness that has no constructive advice or help to others.

Muddy Puddles thread 12 hours ago was bang on the nail,Sharing experiences of depression is a wonder full therapy, forums like this are a great way of utilising a common interest, and discussing lifestyle issues anonymously, and the OPs thread invites this.

Mr Barnes does seem to have a habit of “provoking a reaction” and several individuals have got sucked into this,diluting the quality of the topic and straying away from the point.

It has helped me to look forwards and focus on future planned events rather than dwelling on negative things in the past,take each day one step at a time and always try to talk things through with someone,if thinks don’t go as planned.

Here’s a big hug to everyone suffering with depression 😐

Sharing experiences of depression is a wonder full therapy

sharing experiences of recovery perhaps. Actual symptoms are very boring to anyone other than the sufferer.

Mr Barnes does seem to have a habit of “provoking a reaction” and several individuals have got sucked into this,diluting the quality of the topic and straying away from the point.

actually, I wasn’t being provoctive, I just wrote about the way I’d overcome depression, trying to be helpful – however, for reasons of their own, many choose to be provoked, whatever I say. However, I reject the idea that the thread was diluted – you shouldn’t assume that because depression is serious, it cannot be discussed in an amusing way

I don’t think it’s straying too far from the point when a health professional misinterprets eccentricity as “sociopathic tendencies” – it’s a fair warning that even the experts can be hopelessly wrong.

take each day one step at a time and always try to talk things through with someone

well, OK, we all like a sympathetic ear, particularly in the early stages of recovery, but it can be easy to abuse the privilege and establish a condition of dependency and/or symptom obsession. That’s why I talked about self reliance. David Burns hammers the point home that everyone has a life of their own, and no one has more time for you than you do yourself, and you can use as much of it as you need without feeling guilty for inflicting your problems on anyone else.

Simon The problem is that you trivialise depression. you oversimplify treatments. You make unjustified claims for your favourite treatment, you decry all other treatments, you clearly continue to have unresolved issues that you deny, you have very strange attitudes towards emotion and thus your input is not universally helpful.

Others – please don’t just take my word for it – read bermbandits incisive posts on this

I’m not reading all this.
Just the brief peruse left me feeling crap and that i’m not doing anything right to deal with my own sufferings.
All the, ‘i’m right and your wrong shite’ has left me confused on what the hell i need to do for me.

Could someone please point me in the right direction of something non bitchy, perhaps dissect simons and TJ’s hang bagging, into to something positive and useful.
There are people here who suffer depression in it’s many guises and each case has it’s own individual and most suitable method of which to deal with it, at least in a way lessen the symptoms so the sufferer can led a better life.

perhaps dissect simons and TJ’s hang bagging

Hardly worth the effort really. Here’s a summary: None of it is worth reading. Its all utter shite. This is the internet after all. What did you expect?

There is content in this thread, you just have to read it carefully with a peaceful mind on.

Not always easy granted.

Just the brief peruse left me feeling crap and that i’m not doing anything right to deal with my own sufferings.

That was expected 🙁 It’s almost impossible to talk about depression without ending up having that effect on at least someone. Nature of the beast.

The problem is that you trivialise depression

I don’t think so. After all it poisoned 3 decades of my life 🙁

you decry all other treatments

I’m critical of antidepressants, which are very hit-or-miss, given the underlying complexity of the hormonal systems.

you have very strange attitudes towards emotion

really ? I’m just reiterating what I read in the book, and pragmatically, the concept that emotions come from thoughts is very powerful, as you have plenty of scope for changing how you think. We call them “feelings”, because they have a measureable somatic reality similar to external sensations, and I’m saying the physical part is meaningless, not the thoughts that lead to the feeling

Sorry sharki!

You have grasped the key point in that depression is complex and multifactorial, there are many different treatments and different ones are best for different people

Sometimes learning coping mechanisms is enough, other times you need to explore deep parts of your psyche to deal with the causes. I have some knowledge and experience ( but not huge amounts) of many of the forms of treatment – if it would be of use to discuss this in a non judgemental way off forum to anyone please email me.

Glib superficial answers are not helpful IMO / IME

Glib superficial answers are not helpful

nor glib diagnoses 🙂

SFB has risen in my estimation as a person, after reading through this thread.

I came to the conclusion long ago that the road to happiness is to stop giving a damn, about giving a damn, about how you think people who cannot know you, percieve you.

Our society has been built on “How will i look to the nieghbours” Keeping up with the Jonse’s.
Buying the expensive car.
The massive house.
The huge home extension when only a family of three live within.
Buying the overly large widescreen tv and mounting on the wall opposite the window for all to see.
None of it for your personal needs, all of it for others to see “How well you are doing”

I bought in to this once. Ran myself in to the ground to keep up. Credit? Yup.

It took losing it all for me to take the long hard, no soft soap(Elfinsaftey stylee) inward look, to fix myself, to stop living my life for people who couldn’t possibly give a damn. To live my life for me and mine.