I reject the idea that the thread was diluted

Good point, 5 pages of SF arguing is entirely on topic for a thread about depression…

Our society has been built on “How will i look to the nieghbours” Keeping up with the Jonse’s.

I disagree with that. I never met anyone who wanted anything because someone else had it.

I met a lot of people who wanted something because they thought it was cool. Quite a difference.

I never met anyone who wanted anything because someone else had it.

ever hear of “theft” ?

Synposis?

I found this book to be very good for helping me change the way I saw my body and self, also with coping with my back injuries.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alexander-Technique-Skill-Lif-Pedro-/260667859859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cb103e393

A lot of people have been healed of all sorts of conditions by a beverage called Kombucha.

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=Kombucha+and+depression&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=79dc70bae4eb17bd

I take it to give me more energy and it seems to be healing my back very quickly.

Anyone interested in feeling good, I would advise you to look into it.

If you’re interested in taking it, I can show you where to buy the equipment and teach you how to brew it.

Also if anyone reading this is near to Edinburgh or can travel here I can give you a bottle of Kombucha to try it.

Don’t dismiss it because it isn’t widely known about, thousands of people benefit from it and it will be a cold day on the face of the sun before I stop taking it.

can bring on massive dizzy’ness, disorientation and reduced ability to think clearly. Sounds like something out of a book, but happened to me. Working a 9-5 office + 1hr commute each way did me in to the point I couldn’t even WALK to the car, let alone drive it.
Doctors puzzled for ages about the dizzyness thing, when my mood improved, dizzzyness, collapsing & brain failure, all gone.
Was also completly dis-interested in food and other things.

I have to say that it is a shame that this thread has deteriorated into who is right and who is wrong

it wasn’t as simple as that. TJ was saying I was completely wrong about everything and should stop posting, I said he was wrong about me being an insightless sociopathic emotionally stunted denialist!

With regards to comments about the trivialisation of depression and/or infringing the sensitivities of sufferers – I’d say the subject isn’t somehow sacred, and that making too much of selfcritical feelings merely reinforces the misery. Depression is about unrealistic bad feelings – people can be happy even if all their loved ones are killed or their legs blown off, so part of the solution is to get things in proportion, and stop taking feelings so seriously they become disabling.

Mol, a lot of it is being susceptible to the media, you might think youre hard bitten and couldnt possibly fall for the sales line/ technique… but advertisement industry is at work on a very subtle and very powerfull level… the level of peer pressure.

I met a lot of people who wanted something because they thought it was cool. Quite a difference.

Proof positive.

The media say we need BMW turbo nutter, A semi in Surbiton, Bluray, HD or whatever and the public fall for it, and worse still LIE to themself as to the reasons they bought in to it, often at vast expense, when the old item they had did a perfectley adequate job… I needed more room… It’s a better area, the picture is ten times better.. it does 45mpg…. nearly all kidding yourself, or worse justifying why you purchased the item with a lie.
Read Lies Lies Lies the psychology of deceit by Dr Ford, there is an entire chapter dedicated to this phenomenon..

I’ve just read some of this thread and I’m now rocking back and too gibbering, while carving my own initials repeatedly into my arm with a straight razor.

It demonstrates all the nuanced knowledge and indepth insight of a channel 5, 60 second news update.

PLEASE STOP IT!!!!!!

For anyone new to this thread, read the first few pages if nothing else. As someone who has never reached some of the depths mentioned here I don’t always really understand or ‘get’ what is going wrong when I see someone starting to unravel. Many of the comments here have been hugely helpful so thank you to everyone who has opened up. FC’s “How about when nothing matters?” in particular

It demonstrates all the nuanced knowledge and indepth insight of a channel 5, 60 second news update.

if you wanted those things, this was not the place to look! I wonder what nuances you might expect anyway ?

You just can’t help yourself, can you?

Binners. You mean for sfb to have the last say? 😉

Find it hard to see why people get so upset about what Simon says. He hasn’t trivialised depression but offered a solution that worked for him and his central point that thoughts influence feelings is so self evidently true. If someones behaviuor makes you feel guilty or angry or sad it’s because you let it. As Eleanor Roosevelt said:

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent”

And another quote for anyone wound up by Simon (or anyone else for that matter is Mark Twains
“Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured”

“Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured”

agreed. Certainly the kind of instant road-rage type anger I used to get 🙁 Dangerous and pointless.

Another one is jealousy – it has no useful function whatever. No one benefits by it.

threads this long always have sfb arguing just popped in so thanks for the precise

I said he was wrong about me being an insightless sociopathic emotionally stunted denialist!

So basically TJ was right 😉

The media say we need BMW turbo nutter, A semi in Surbiton, Bluray, HD or whatever and the public fall for it, and worse still LIE to themself as to the reasons they bought in to it

Interesting. So if say I want I dunno.. a new car.. is it because I’ve been conditioned to want one by the media and am lying to myself as to the reasons? Or is it that the car itself is an intrinsically desirable item for me, being such person as appreciates the driving and mechanics of such things?

Could you or I ever tell the difference?

Your honour….. I rest my case

SFB

You continue to downplay what depression is because of your lack of understanding both of the condition of yourself. Your very post above is doing this. Depression can be far more than you state and to state

I’d say the subject isn’t somehow sacred, and that making too much of selfcritical feelings merely reinforces the misery. Depression is about unrealistic bad feelings

Is completely trivialising it. Its a glib oversimplification. It may have applied to you but it does not apply to everyone with depressive illness. some have far more severe debilitating symptoms.

If all You had said SFB was that “I was like this, I tried this and it worked for me” then fine. However to state such nonsense as that does people who are living with the illness no favours nor does your complete rejection over and over again of drugs.

That is why I got angry and sucked into arguing with you.

To talk rubbish on some subjects does no harm. However on some subjects it can. Some of what you have said on this thread could easily put people off seeking treatment or send them down a road that does no suit them

Your trivialising of the illness could also damage the self worth of people who are living with this illness

For these reasons I asked you to stop.

It may have applied to you but it does not apply to everyone with depressive illness. some have far more severe debilitating symptoms.

such as ? You’re right that I’m only talking about my own experience and those related to me by others, but surely all depression is about unrealistic feelings, mostly misery not related to immediate, ongoing physical causes ? I mean, if you’re miserable because someone hits you every day, that’s just sensible, not depression, which I take to be a kind of self perpetuating inner angst

nor does your complete rejection over and over again of drugs

actually I repeatedly said I didn’t get on with them, though they were useful to me briefly when I was suicidal. Given the sledgehammer way the are supposed to work, with numerous side effects, that cannot be held as an ideal solution if other methods work.

That is why I got angry and sucked into arguing with you

well, anger isn’t very useful and likely to make you misspeak. However convinced you may be of your own rightness, that doesn’t completely invalidate others’ opinions to everyone else, and you still have to present credible arguments

Some of what you have said on this thread could easily put people off seeking treatment or send them down a road that does no suit them

yes, I know you keep saying this, but I never said anyone should avoid treatment, and I cannot see how so many pages of carefully thought out argument can be thought of as trivialisation, moreover, I’ve already pointed out that no one takes a blind bit of notice of my contrary opinions on any other topic (except to ridicule them), so I’m at a loss why you might think they’d take my pronouncements on this as Gospel. Your attitude seems to betray a contempt for depressives where you feel they cannot be allowed to think for themselves or to take part in their own rehabilitation – which undermines the very self belief vital to recovery

Becoming angry and issuing cod diagnoses suggests an unhelpful lack of mature reflection (that’s my cod diagnosis)

For these reasons I asked you to stop.

had you the slightest perception you would long have realised that telling me not to do a thing only encourages me, as I feel I’m getting somewhere useful

actually I repeatedly said I didn’t get on with them, though they were useful to me briefly when I was suicidal. Given the sledgehammer way the are supposed to work, with numerous side effects, that cannot be held as an ideal solution if other methods work.

Actually, this is what I’ve been taking issue with mostly. As I’ve said, in my case I started taking drugs (lamactil) and my symptoms have gone from being completely unmanageable to almost non-existent and the ones that are still present are completely manageable without any side effects.

I think you’re lumping all drugs in with anti-depressants which aren’t the only type of drugs available for depression.

I understand that you have had bad experiences but understand that I have had bad experiences with the solutions you are suggesting, mostly that I was able to fool myself into thinking that they were working and they were better than taking drugs. They worked for a couple of weeks at best before the mental strain became too much and I fell back again. For me it’s a chemical imbalance that can be treated with drugs, pure and simple.

Your trivialising of the illness could also damage the self worth of people who are living with this illness

surely self worth should be founded on one’s qualities and rights as an individual and not on some affliction ? For me discovering that the symptoms were mostly pointless self-deception was an immediate route to recovery, so in that sense trivialisation would be a good thing – and remember, I am one of those people living with the illness…

trailertrash – Member
to OP: Have you seen a clinical psychiatrist yet?

POSTED 2 DAYS AGO #
Surrounded By Zulus – Member
Nope. Never.

I would really suggest getting a formal diagnosis. It is helpful to get a professional opinion. If you are diagnosed with depression then you can get onto a proper treatment programme for clinical depression.

If, instead, it turns out you are actually having a really shit time and experiencing difficult feelings that are in fact a logical response to that (rather than an illogically severe response to circumstances, or some kind of spontaneous depression due to chemical imbalance within your brain, for example) then you can get some direct talking-style therapy which wil really help.

If you do this (the talking therapy – counselling) you might choose the most expensive and highest ranking psychiatrist as a counsellor that you can find. This will both give you the best chance of the best help and also the appreciable outlay will motivate you to get better quickly. Yes, I am serious. Choosing a cheap counsellor is more likely to lead to a long and less satisfactory experience, what some people would call a ‘hand holding’ exercise, rather than steady progression to a happier state. This is not to say all cheap counsellors are less good, that’s not true, but there is a trend as with any profession.

Best

Tim

you might choose the most expensive and highest ranking psychiatrist as a counsellor that you can find

is there some kind of price ranking one can consult ? Would I not be right in thinking there are diminishing returns above some price level ? Am I to take it that my £7 therapy won’t last ? Might their eye colour not be the best criterion ? Does this apply to the UK ?

I think you’re lumping all drugs in with anti-depressants which aren’t the only type of drugs available for depression

non-antidepressant antidepressants? what are they ?

OK, I accept what you say, but how common is such somatic depression ? I see huge amounts of evidence for negative thinking and poor self image in people, even where it doesn’t get as bad as clinical depression, and if they can be Gok-Wanishly persuaded to think better of themselves that would be good too.

Hmm, I sort of agree with TJ a bit here, but I don’t think he quite understands where Simon has been coming from. It occurs to me that Simon (and TJ for that matter) has a conversational manner that makes it a little hard to understand what he means *at times* and TJ tends to hold onto the first interpretation he arrives at of Simon’s comments.

I actually suspect Simon’s problems originally stem from difficulty in reading and understanding other people to some extent. I think he actually has an Autistic Spectrum Disorder of some kind (and not just because of this thread!).

I’m not an expert however 🙂

Christ – is anyone on STW NOT depressed?!

Personally I think SFB’s behaviour here and eleshwere demonstrates quite clearly why his assertion to have “fixed himself” is self evidently incorrect. that however, is merely my opinion. (Please apply all the usual caveats…. non insulting, non confrontational ya di ya di ya )

I think he actually has an Autistic Spectrum Disorder of some kind

YAY!! I love this :o) Perhaps I’m sociopathic AND autistic ?? Here’s a curve ball for you, might it not be that my reading age matches my advanced physical age, and I understand well enough what others are saying but just don’t accept their ideas? Instead of fumblingly trying to psychoanalyse me over the web, I’d suggest it’s better to address the actual arguments and concepts.

This thread is depressing now.

Personally I think SFB’s behaviour here and eleshwere demonstrates quite clearly why his assertion to have “fixed himself” is self evidently incorrect.

I’m fixed for me, in that I’m happy. If there’s a little collateral damage I’m unconcerned, as it is actually self inflicted. I always was obnoxious, but that isn’t a medical condition. Now I’m happily obnoxious 🙂

might it not be that my reading age matches my advanced physical age, and I understand well enough what others are saying but just don’t accept their ideas?

Mate, it’s not that you have trouble reading, it’s that you seem to have trouble actually communicating – ie getting your ideas across.

It’s why several people are angry with you when really you’ve got a perfectly good point, and it took 6 or 7 pages to get there 🙂

Apologies for being insulting – it wasn’t meant to be.

EDIT: you are far from the only person on here to have trouble getting their ideas across – me for one.

non-antidepressant antidepressants? what are they ?

OK, I accept what you say, but how common is such somatic depression ? I see huge amounts of evidence for negative thinking and poor self image in people, even where it doesn’t get as bad as clinical depression, and if they can be Gok-Wanishly persuaded to think better of themselves that would be good too.

Lamictal (lamotrigin) was originally an epilepsy drug that they found was also reducing the anxiety and depression of some epilepsy sufferers. They still don’t know exactly how it works (something that made me really sceptical before I started taking it) on people suffering from Bipolar depression but it is now a recognised treatment. While it does have some side effects in about 10% of patients it is side effect free for most people.

I did as much research as possible before I started and one of the most interesting things I found out was that many people on the bipolar spectrum’s depression are actually made worse by taking anti-depressants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamotrigine

it’s that you seem to have trouble actually communicating

it might be that people are used to a lot more prevarication and circumlocution than I could ever manage…

Apologies for being insulting

I wasn’t aware you had 🙂 If I were autistic it wouldn’t be my fault.

it might be that people are used to a lot more prevarication and circumlocution than I could ever manage…

No not really. You came across as disparaging, when you really weren’t. I’m not the only one that thought that. Just giving you feedback 🙂

Mol, you need to ask the question, and answer honestly, why do i want that new car…
In reflection, the the one sitting outside here made little financial sense after the gearbox on the car went pop.. i could have fixed the old one and had plenty of change from the purchase price of the new one…

(By god, i think i’m having a little trouble communicating THIS concept, just go out and buy the bloody book!) 😀

True happines and peace of mind can only be found in one place.
The last bite of a Dairy Milk Bar and a Half.

Mol, you need to ask the question, and answer honestly, why do i want that new car…

I do ask myself these kinds of questions a lot. And they are not because other people have them. My two cars (that I love) are a Prius and a Passat ffs, that blows the theory out of the water since everyone else thinks they are awful.. and not in a so bad it’s good kind of way.

The Passat I got because I was doing long journeys and I wanted a) to be relaxed at the end of them and b) to be surrounded by as much safety equippment as possible. The Passat was on the right forecourt at the right time for the right price.

It’s just too easy and simplistic to make sweeping statements like ‘you are just keeping up with the joneses’.

So why buy the Prius? ( this is not a personal attack btw!!!) I’m gonna stick me neck out here and say you fell for the marketing…For its green credential?

On petrol, it gets similar MPG then a passat diesel? (47 iir)

The lithium mined for it’s manufacture is actually raping the planet, the area it is mined in is barren for miles around with poisons from the process, this is then shipped 3 times around the globe while being processed in to batteries, and then to the car manufacture for fitment. The entire vehicle is then shipped here.
Then there is the end of life disposal issue..

Without that battery, i dare say that it would be just as polluting as a conventional car to produce, iir a car produces two thirds of its overall pollution in its manufacture?

No right thinking individual could possibly see this as an environmentally friendly car by any measuring stick, once shown the bigger picture of its manufacture, indeed any electric vehicle is polluting somewhere down the line, Power mainly comes from Gas or coal in this country, and even if recharged by wind or wave power, the battery still has caused mayhem in its manufacture and will again in its disposal.

For a green car choice, the best would be to buy one with the greatest fuel efficiency and run it for as long as possible.. So all those 1977 land rovers you see chugging about spewing fumes are technically more green then the Prius

I find cars depressing 🙁