Surly Ghost Grappler or equivalent drop-bar MTB

Title says it, anyone got one or another drop-bar MTB – advice/thoughts?

Background – I bike-pack a few times a year and have used both my MTB HT and gravel bike; neither is the answer but obviously both have attributes I like.  The MTB is better for rougher tracks, especially when descending – the gravel works best on smoother surfaces and far faster on tarmac, and climbs well as lighter.

My riding is predominantly in Scotland, think Badger Divide type riding.

I am looking at running 29″ wheels and fast-rolling tyres, carrying full camping gear (soft luggage) and mainly off-road but do also use roads as ‘links’.

Drop bar MTB – or ‘alt’ bar ATB?

I must get some time on something like a Ghost Grappler. My first reaction is the bars and tyres don’t match / pull in opposite use directions and it’d be a better bike (in the UK) on a swept alt bar. But I don’t trust my first reactions enough in that way. FWIW for the riding you describe I’m really happy on a rigid 29er with 2.3 fast XC tyres and Jones bars as an ATB. It’s fun off-road and it goes well along the lanes. My gravel bike does similar stuff just with more of the lanes and less off-road. The 29er is much more of an explorer’s bike.

Rather out of my depth here, as I’m just a keen countryside pootler, but a Singular Swift would give you flat & drop bar options or there’s the Mk3 Gryphon drop bar mountain bike.

I’d have thought that the Cotic Cascade would also be worth a look.

Are Lyon equipment (UK importer ) still knocking out sale cutthroats grx 600 for 1900 quid -they were last week. Bargain and a top bike to boot.

Singular Gryphon or mk 1 or 2 Swift, think Sam’s been riding drop bars for ages

Our 13 Favorite Drop-Bar MTBs + History and Interpretation

13 bikes all with the wrong bars on them

(joking, mostly)

I’d say a Cotic Cascade would be nicer steel, nicer looking and generally a nicer bike than the Ghost Grappler in every way

I’m a fellow jameso 29er ATB evangelist! Rigid 29er xc kind of bike is very good for exploring/ adventure/ bikepacking /riding all surface types well enough. I use a ti 29er for this purpose, and it’s good off road, comfortable, and actually not bad on the road (with Mezcals). It weighs the same as my (fairly heavy) gravel bike.

I always like the look and idea of drop bar 29ers, but having tried it out, it doesn’t work for me, and is indeed a mis-match of tyre and handlebar…

They’re all a bit monster cross aren’t they?

FWIW for the riding you describe I’m really happy on a rigid 29er 

Agree, but I do like the multiple hand positions from drops, plus the ability to ‘time-trial’ a crappy road section is useful.

I’d say a Cotic Cascade would be nicer steel, nicer looking and generally a nicer bike than the Ghost Grappler in every way

Also considered as I also have a Cotic Flare Max – have you ridden a Cascade and/or Grappler?

I always like the look and idea of drop bar 29ers, but having tried it out, it doesn’t work for me, and is indeed a mis-match of tyre and handlebar…

I’ve wide flared drops (Ritchey Beacons) on my gravel bike, they work well offroad – just that on rougher descents gravel tyres (even though I run 50c’s) were overwhelmed.

True on the flared drops – I use Ritchey Corralitos and love them, and I think the other issue is the ergonomics of drop levers off road don’t work as well as flat bar levers/shifters off road. I’ve found that even mild alt-bars help for longer distance comfort and changing hand position. I just feel there’s a useful enough step change/benefit going from alt-drops to alt-flats to favour alt-flats.

Pace RC429 could do this for you, been looking at one for MTB duties but takes drop bars too.

Designed with dual use in mind.

James

The answer used to always be a Salsa Fargo, although I think the Cutthroat has taken it’s mantle of recent years.

I always like the look and idea of drop bar 29ers,

Me too. …anything looks better than Jones bars really : )

I did ride an XL Fargo briefly last week, a size too big probably but that felt good. Not an MTB but good as an all-rounder.

Pace RC429

I don’t see how or where that’s not got the same compromises as any other sorted 130mm fork hardtail that’s had a rigid fork and drops put on it? It looks great as a HT… still, no reason you couldn’t ride it as a drop bar bike.

If you are convinced you want 29 inch wheels the Ghost Grappler isn’t the best choice, the fork only allows for a 29x50mm tyre, the fork crown is the limiter here, however it rides superbly well with 27.5 inch tyres (as per its design)

I initially set mine up with 29×50 tyres and mudguards, plus a 40mm stem to compensate for the long top tube, it didn’t ride at all nicely, swapped 27.5 x 2.3 tyres in and back to an 80mm stem and it transformed the bike

For what you’re describing I reckon a Fargo is still a damn good choice and ticks all the boxes, there’s a few Fargo alike out there now, the Tumbleweed Stargazer, the Coptic as mentioned above, and then a few choices from Singular, the latest Gryphon having all the attachment point for bikepacking with soft bags.

Agree, but I do like the multiple hand positions from drops, plus the ability to ‘time-trial’ a crappy road section is useful.

I find flat bars with a set of bar ends mounted inboard of the grips (so pretty much at ‘road bar hoods’ width) works great.

I reviewed both the surly and the cascade for ukgravelco.com and bought a cascade with my own money

Surly Ghost Grappler Review

Cotic Cascade Review

Smokestone Mr Harry? Although comparatively expensive as Ti.

 FWIW for the riding you describe I’m really happy on a rigid 29er with 2.3 fast XC tyres and Jones bars as an ATB.

TBH

This has been what I have been thinking about for a while,then I just persist with my drop bar gravel bike while choosing better lines for skinny tyres.

Agree, but I do like the multiple hand positions from drops, plus the ability to ‘time-trial’ a crappy road section is useful.

How about a Corner bar with a TT-style bar type extension? means you can use MTB brake levers and gear shifters and dangle dry bags under the  extension too?

My Vagabond takes 700c x 2.2 tyres and is not far off a xc 29er geometry…

A vote for the Kona Sutra LTD, currently running 29 x 2.25 XC tyres on mine and it’s super capable. I’d have probably got a Cotic Cascade though had they existed when I bought the Sutra. But both very much meet your brief.

Marin DS (MTB geo, flat bar) is same frame as Marin Gestalt (MTB geo, drop bar).

Kona Sutra or genesis vagabond would fit the bill.

I’ve got a vagabond.   Love it.  Little bit heavy.

Maybe a stooge rambler….?  650b tho

If its surly, maybe a karate monkey? Drops or flats

iIn spite of too slack a seat tube (exacerbated by too short a rear end), the Pubesmobile is fun.

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A post shared by Dave Macdonald (@davechopoptions)

Got my eyes on something to replace it next month when it comes out…

Agree, but I do like the multiple hand positions from drops, plus the ability to ‘time-trial’ a crappy road section is useful.

Same here, though I find the fore-aft range of a Jones bar or many other high-sweep bars is a good equivalent to the hi/low range of a drop bar in terms of power and aerodynamics for road sections. The Jones bar gives me a wider rearward (brakes-prioritised) and a narrow forward position that are both more useful for specific terrain than the options from drops. Don’t get me wrong, I love drop bar bikes on or off-road, all this comes from (at times) wanting my off-road riding to be a bit more fast / loose and fun than drop bars tend to allow. If I’m happy to be in a more road/touring mindset I’m fine with my gravel bike.

That article that Jameso linked to ranks the Pipedream A.L.I.C.E over the Cascade. It certainly look like it might be worth a look.

@intheborders, I own a Cascade and think it would be ideal for the type of riding you do. Like you I have a Flaremax (we actually met at the Cotic CC ride a year or so ago). It’s been great off road, have had it loaded up for bike packing but also goes fine on the road. I take it on the same sort of trails I used to ride my hardtail on. There are limits to what it can do off road but that’s when I take the Flaremax.

Stooge Rambler is a good shout. I love Mk4 and a drop bar version would be ace.

Also the Genesis Vagabond. I’ve done a lot of miles on mine, and yes it’s a bit porky, but it rides fast and is comfy all day. Room for 2.4/2.2 29er tyres too.

I think the Fearless chap is/was planning on a V2 Warlock with MTB standards (boost spacing, big tyre clearance, etc) based on a query of mine last year. No info on the website yet but I think he’s active on social media (I’m not so don’t know what the latest is).

WARLOCK

Thanks for all input, and I’ve already seen your videos Rocketdog :-)

I’m trying a Cascade out later in the week, thanks to a Forum User, I’ll report back.

Another option… Mason “In Search Of ” (ISO). Steel frame, carbon fork, UK company.

Love mine. Currently riding with 29 x 2.35 Maxxis mtb tyres, 120mm dropper, 32 x 10/50 gearing, Ritchie drop ‘bars, etc. I’ll ride it down “most” things I’d get ride one of my mtbs down, but this is much faster on less technical stuff. Carries loads superbly, takes full mudguards, boost spacing, and even a 100mm fork if wanted. I’ve used it for mountain biking, gravel events and off-road bike packing. It’s ace :-)

There’s quite a big list here – https://bikepacking.com/index/drop-bar-mountain-bikes-29er/

Pipedream Alice is fabulous, I was stupid to sell mine

I have a Fargo, ECR and a Mk 1 Longitude.  The Fargo is lovely and a great ride but I don’t find the drop bars any more comfortable than the Jones bars on the ECR and the Tumbleweed Persuader bars on the Longitude.

The Longitude is actually a great bike and really versatile. If I was starting from scratch I would look for a rigid MTB of sorts.  Maybe a Big Brother or a Swift…

I know that Neil from bikepacking.com really rates the Grappler but the geometry confuses me… it looks really long for a drop handlebar bike.

More Pipedream ALICE-based regrets here too…

Unless you really love drop bars I think a hardtail or rigid 29er is more versatile. I’ve owned 2 x Stooges, a Singular Rooster (29+) with Jones Loops, Fargo with a 29+ front… The Fargo is really compromised on rough downhills compared to the others, it’s only plus is the extra hand positions offered by the bars. Of these bikes the Rooster with Jones bars was the best at “bike packing”, Fargo at long distance rides provided it’s not too rough, Stooges at pretty much anything, perhaps not the fastest at covering ground but fun!

I’ve got a slackish ti hardtail with 2.6″ WTB Rangers which is my bike packing bike now and it’s fast and comfortable, works well for everything.

im very much in the opposite camp .

Ive a ragley TD-1 with the wider ( 720?) jones loop bars.

&

Salsa Cutthroat with woodchippers

both with very similar positions , the same saddle , Both running 2.3″ spesh Fast tracks.

I have never really felt compromised in the drops.. Riding in the Cairngorms largely . – nadgery rocky trails – often loaded up.