Stumped…

Got to admit a lack of bravery – using a new username to post, my apologies in advance for this cowardice. After witnessing and contributing to the support others have received – felt maybe someone would have some useful advice. Tried MTFU for over nine-months to little avail and bombers not likely to sort it either…

Basically, seem to be stuck in a cycle of anxiety, low self esteem and depression, I don’t sleep well am irritable and also fatigued by putting a brave face on for the outside world.. Yes, my job is demanding and stressful with too high a workload (but who’s job isn’t…). I feel I have previously got the balance between work and home wrong in the past – – but always have worked to maintain the security of my family and supported my wife in her work. I also have redressed this balance over the last year.

I have a wonderfully loving and supportive wife that I am deeply in love with and three beautiful children who are my world, also a good network of friends and family that I can talk to but am afraid of upsetting with my negativity. I have tried exercising more, integrative counselling for the last four months but this hasn’t worked for me and I am not sure that drug-based treatment would either, but I am left in a situation where I am not sure why my wife is with me, where I don’t feel like a good parent and feel I am letting others down – despite reassurances. I also am withdrawing into myself and not liking to go out socially as I usually do or even be out too far from home.

I know others have experienced similar things – does anyone know what helped for them?

i’m no expert so can’t offer proper medical advice, but i’ll say that i hope you get through it. Humans are amazing and can cope with, and overcome all kinds of problems.

Yes, my job is demanding and stressful with too high a workload (but who’s job isn’t…)

This sounds like an issue. Not everyone’s job leads to overwork and stress. That could be a place to start.

Hi mate.. reading your post is like looking in a mirror for me. I too tried the councilling thing for a few months but it didnt seem to work. I am on ssri drug treatment at the moment but according to my wife it has stopped working. I have anxiety attacks and feel very low for most of the time.
I also have two kids and try my best for the family. I went self employed nearly a year ago to make a go of myself but it has been a struggle that i often can’t cope with and certainly wouldn’t without my wifes support, both emotionally and financially.
Sometimes it can be difficult to motivate myself, especially when the work is a bit thin at the moment. I know it will pick up loads in a months time but its difficult to convince myself to keep going.
What works for me is to just put my mind to something I enjoy for a set period each day, an hour or two maybe. I like to tinker with stuff, electronics, outboard engines, my bike etc. Don’t have to think about anything else while I’m doing it. Used to to be well into photography a few years ago and have just bought a nice dslr which I intend to use for an hour or two every day to see if I can get some nice pics.
I don’t know if that will work for you but I know it does for me. Make sure you see your GP too. Explain everything that is on your mind and how you feel. Ours is very helpful and sympathetic.
If you need someone to just talk to, pm me. I know how you feel.

hasn’t worked for me and I am not sure that drug-based treatment would either

With the medication thing, and I am not in any way advocating its use as a standalone treatment but, too many people see using medication as some sort of ‘weakness’.
I’ve been on and off anti’D’s/anti anxiety medication for much of my adult life and although not ideal, I recognise that perhaps there is an imbalance in my make up that needs balancing, just as if for example I had ….an overactive thyroid or whatever. I currently take medication and can see that I may be still taking them for a long time.

See your GP, get referred, and entertain the possibility that if you are currently stuck in a ‘black hole’, that some sort of help to lift your spirits and break the cycle may be a good thing.

As a first step I would suggest having blood tests carried out to eliminate any possible deficiency. Do some research and don’t just go by what your GP says. So, for example, vitamin D levels can be extremeley low in people. Another one could be iron and ferritin levels.

IME GPs are too quick in prescribing ADs, that’s just laziness.

Good luck. 🙂

IME GPs are too quick in prescribing ADs, that’s just laziness

I agree, but for some people, they may be helpful and shouldn’t be ruled out just because of the stigma attached to them, largely because of over-prescription.

Different forms of counselling work for different people. You relationship with the counsellor would seem to be very important in this so it might be worth switching to another counsellor / form of counselling.

Medication? its not a cure its a treatment. what it can do is to offer a breathing space or respite from the negative circles of thought. It can be very effective in the sort of situation you are in. Again trail and errror is often needed to get the right one / the right balance.

When you say you have adjusted your work life balance have you really made a serious change? Too much work and stress can be very damaging. change jobs / cut hours / take a serious holiday / go off sick for some months?????

You could also ask your GP for a referral to the community psychiatric nurse or psychiatric services / consultant.

When you are in this sort of state then it can be very hard to see the way out – but it is there and you can find it.

good luck

Yes I agree that they can be helpful for some but other avenues need to be explored hence my suggestion of blood tests as a starting point.

I have been quite shocked at how ADs were thrown at me, by more than one GP too. The diagnosis should have been hypothyroidism.

Really cg? You should have mentioned it before…..

Go to your GP, explain how you feel. Use the visit as an opportunity to raise the subject with your wife. It’s an illness; nothing to be ashamed of.

Sarcasm really isn’t clever crikey.

Well you do rather labour the point at every opportunity…

Take up road riding; the thrill of the speed with the added piquancy of the danger of riding in a bunch will give you an endorphin kick like you’ve never experienced. The added fitness will make you feel better too.

My state of mind is permanently mildly depressed and road riding is the only thing that gives me any real pleasure at the moment.

Thank you for all your responses – it is appreciated. I think maybe the time has now come to talk to my GP, although I will make sure that other medical avenues are explored in addition to anti-depressants etc… Saying that as the husband of a modern psychiatric matron, as a qualified (If non-practising) psychologist and also as the offspring of a parent who suffered from endogenous depression, I am aware that for some the use of medication is essential to ‘normal’ brain chemistry and function. I may also consider changing my counsellor and the type of counselling as what I have had so far has not seemed very helpful.

I have been very open with Mrs Tootired all through this and she has been very supportive, but even with her clinical knowledge she cannot hep overly as she is not able to be professionally objective – hardly surprising really.

I am exercising five times a week at the moment – which may be having a more positive effect than I realise, however I must admit that dusting off the road bike on a regular basis is not particularly appealing at the moment, but I do have a couple of longer sportives lined up in the next couple of months.

Thank you again for your contributions.

Hi Clipper68 – just wanted to say thank you for making me feel it is not just me going through this at the moment! Take care of yourself.

T

I get anxiety and bouts of depression. I can honestly say that the people I know who also suffer are all feeling low at the moment. I believe in food and mood, eat stuff that you like but be aware of too much sugar, caffeine and alcohol. Drink loads of water and eat fresh fruit. If your DR gives you anti depressants try them out, don’t listen to people saying they give them out like sweets, they could help you out of a rut. Your the only expert on yourself and you know how you feel. Exercise loads, preferably outdoors. If it’s at a time were you really feel like you can’t get out and do that sit outside for a bit. If your self employed and managing your own breaks make sure to leave the workplace during that time, go outside even if it’s for 5 minutes and get some air.

Best of luck to you, this ain’t going to last forever and it will pass. Keep speaking out if your low, people will help you, don’t bottle it up.

Catflees has brought up one variable that may have a large effect on many people, caffeine. It can create a psychosis effect leading to stress and panic attacks in a number of people. My suggestion here would be to eliminate it from your diet for a minimum two weeks and see if things get better by a sizeable level. You’ll suffer banging headaches whilst your body gets used to being without but it’ll get better from 2 weeks on.

There’s a reason we hear “diet and exercise” so often in life. As MTBers we’ve got the exercise dialled in, but maybe not the diet part. Society isn’t really warning of the adverse affect caffeine has on certain of us. If you go to the GP you may face not being given diet advice (the average person on the street would mess it up and make themselves more ill) you’ll get sent to the psychologists or even just a short cut to drugs. I was switched over ten years between anti-depressants to anti-psychotics and even the GP’s were saying they were having unusual effects on me. Then I personally, through long and hard looking into diet, found I was caffeine sensitive. I’ve been in once, but I’m going to go again, and sort out my medical history. My notes are massive and a running joke and I need to drill it into their heads that they were wrong all this time.

Shift to green tea (with white sugar if you need it) Camel brand gunpowder tea is my favourite (check chinese supermarkets) Doesn’t seem to affect me like other caffeine sources. I’ve found caffeine to be ridiculously high in some soft drinks, particularly diet coke and regular pepsi. The odd can of regular coke is okay from time to time. If you have a gap and feel better then you’ll be able to monitor what the odd caffeine laden drink does to you.

Ruling out easily overlooked external factors as CG suggests, I would suggest 2 thingst that I find important – first, you need to work on your self esteem, which comes from within, until you make yourself believe that you are a good worthwhile person no one can help you. Second you need things to aim for, positive targets, big and small, that give you a purpose above the humdrum of work/family life.

My other thing is keep a diary of your mood, split the day into 3, morning evening & night, rate your mood and anxiety out of 10. It can help pin point any times when your worse/better you may not have realised. An example from me I felt shitty after meeting a mate for a coffee every Friday when I got home, it wasn’t the company, wasnt the town that was making me feel crap later in the day, so changed what I was eating/drinking and it passed. Noticed I felt less anxious after pushing hard with exercise, also noticed I felt lowest in the mornings so when I was able (now every day) I push hard exercising in the mornings to set me up for the day.

I will definitely try removing caffeine from my diet – other than that my diet is pretty good, balanced with a lot of fresh foods and minimal amounts of anything processed. The mood diary also seems a good idea and worth some effort to progress with.

I have always had reasonable self esteem so not sure why this has changed – despite some fairly intensive effort to identify through the counselling sessions. However I would agree this needs to take a positive turn for me to feel better.

I have also noticed that I have definate short periods of more ‘normal’ positivity and then back to negativity. Is this something that others have experienced and managed to ‘manage’ well…?

Once again thanks for people’s openess and the effort you have taken to respond – I really do appreciate it.

Classic stress. It builds and builds until it creates health issues and (in a sense) a warped/twisting of reality. I’ve been through it and its horrid. Even meeting people for a simple bike ride becomes too much hassle/too much to cope with.

Have you talked to your Wife?

This unfortunately sounds familiar to me too

hope you find something that works

I have also noticed that I have definate short periods of more ‘normal’ positivity and then back to negativity. Is this something that others have experienced and managed to ‘manage’ well…?

Definitely. I certainly tend to pick up on the futilities and injustices in life more than the positive. Its just the way some people are I have come to realise and recognising that in myself has in some way helped I suppose. I still somehow wish sometimes I was one of these folk who seemingly appear to have a remarkably ‘shallow’ existence and are quite happy with it too.

I often find myself in very low moods and more so than not, do not have any direct reason to be. I have engulfed myself with biking and kayaking and anything that will in some way transport me from my thoughts but the fact is its always there still and I even find myself utterly despairing even when I’m out in the sun with mates on my bike having a good time. Weird, but a reality.

I’ve very recently split with a fantastic and gorgeous girlfriend. Neither of us wanted to really but things had just gotten…..wrong. I just can’t seem to sustain relationships the way ‘most’ people can, so on the bright side, I now have something legitimate to feel sad about.. 🙂 🙁 😕

Anyway, essentially, you are not alone in the slightest for feeling like this. Good luck with it.

I have also noticed that I have definate short periods of more ‘normal’ positivity and then back to negativity.

Yup, the skill is getting the positive periods to be longer than the negative periods and until they even sometimes connect.

I find you have to make positives to look forward to, once you dont have a poitive to look forward to or you look back at negatives in the past instead then the storm clouds start to form.

Lastly, dont beat yourself up about it, recriminating yourself doesnt add anything. I accept that I am a miserable so and so, it doesnt make me a bad person.

3 things which make depression or anxiety hard to deal with:

1. Negative feelings about the present.
2. Negative feelings about the future.
3. Feeling isolated in this combination.

Talk to your partner, talk to your friends. The fear of upsetting them does not have to be present, especially with your Mrs. She probably knows you feel this way but may not know what to do/how to approach it.

The fact that you are a committed husband and father is testament to your integrity (your concern indicates you give a s**t, which many, many do not!).

Your job sounds like a significant factor, it does not have to be stretching and stressful.

Our self esteem is the congruence/disparity between our ideal self and our perceived self. Often we can set unachievable standards for ourselves or misperceive our strengths. Also implausible goals for our ideal self make this harder. The reality of what those around us need may be already being met but we feel that it’s not good enough. A way to confirm this is to ask! A significant way to help improve the way you feel about yourself is to achieve things you plan to do. It sounds simple or even ineffective but the process makes our perceived and ideal selves align.

Recognising what we can control and letting go of what we can’t is very liberating. It’s a classic bit of Dr Seuss; “the people who mind don’t matter and the people that matter don’t mind”.

Once again, talk to your wife. She is likely to put a lot of your feelings into perspective and offer the reassurance you urgently need.

Hope you get through this soon!

Whatever you do DON’T start an office affair. You’ll enter the warped world of mindcluck.

That’s the classic next step for a man with kids, stressed at work thing to do as some sort of ‘living again/escape’.

Hora, I can honestly say that has never crossed my mind – not before or now. Betrayal is not in my nature – plenty of other faults though…

T

Thanks again to everyone who gave me their time on this. Gave up on caffeine and started a mood diary. If I am honest with myself, I know that work and my approach to it has caused these problems and I have accelerated my activities in looking for alternatives – as the current situation is not heallthy and despite taking action with my employer and line manager, this will not change. Building my self esteem back up will be essential and this may be a long journey. I am also seeing my GP to identify if short-term, some medication may help.

My thanks to you all again,

T

Constant high adrenaline in your body causes both bodily and mental symptoms. It’s your self defence mechanism priming you for fighting or fleeing. When there is nothing in your environment to fight or flee, we become fearful of the actual symptoms themselves. You can’t sleep as you’re on alert, beating heart (is it a heart attack?), tight band around the head to name but a few symptoms. Then there is the questioning thoughts, ‘what if this…, what if that?’. Constant.

These symptoms are not the cause, but the effect of your previous worrying. Worrying = analysis. Anxiety sufferers tend to fix onto a few symptoms and are scared of these.

The way out of it is to prove to your anxious mind that these fears have now gone. To do this completely stop analysing what is wrong with you or whether the docs missed something. So the next time you get an anxious thought or symptom, divert your mind onto something else. Don’t attempt to resolve or answer the question. Don’t keep researching why, what, etc. Basically consciously don’t feed it at all. While recovering I still got the anxious thoughts and bodily symptoms, but accepted them instead of reacting to them.

It took me about a month or two of practising this new behaviour for them to go away. And I was in a pretty bad way.