NorcoSight?

http://www.tweekscycles.com/bikes/650b-27-5-mountain-bikes/gt-bicycles-sensor-elite-alloy-27-5-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2015

mjsmke – do a search for ”Whyte G150 or Orange 5” and ”Whyte T129 or Whyte T130” – lots of useful info about the T130.

Here is what I wrote today on one of the above: –

I have done a few more rides on my T130 works and it continues to impress. The other day, me and a couple of mates did W2 at Afan (44km, combining The Wall and Whites Level trails). I’ve done both of those trails a few times, but they really do show what the bike is capable of. It climbs well – pedal efficiency is top notch, but the rear end is plush enough to make climbing up technical, rocky sections a breeze. The front end does feel fairly light for a trail bike, so I did find myself leaning forward a fair bit on steeper climbs, but no problem with that.

On the steeper, faster and more demanding descents, it copes well, launching off lips and steps etc. The suspension at both ends is so so good – plush, supportive and stiff. But it also bails you out on occasion when you hit a dodgy line. I use all the travel but it’s sufficient on the whole and it’s rare I am left wishing for more. It definitely feels a bit twitchy at times on the steepest, roughest sections (and it’s compounded slightly by not being able to slam the saddle quite as far as I’d like given the 19” seatpost). Not in an unmanageable way, but I definitely find myself reigning it in slightly. It’s on those sections that my mate on his Orange Alpine 160 tends to let off the brakes and edge ahead. But some of that is down to rider skill!

Where it really excels is when the downward gradient is moderate. It’s planted, lively, poppy, stiff and playful. It absolutely tears round banked corners and can be slalomed between alternating corners with ease. The more moderate, twisty, rocky descents of Afan can be blasted on this bike. Considering that the majority of most standard trails is ‘moderate’, it’s a pretty ideal bike for the majority of riding. I’m yet to take it to Bike Park Wales (blue and red only), but hoping it doesn’t leave me wishing for more length/travel/slackness.

Contrary to a lot of people’s comments, I’ve found the tyres to be superb. Fast rolling and plenty grip enough for most situations. No, they aren’t mud tyres, but then it’s not often I find myself in gloop to be honest.

Gears and brakes both great.

Still torn about cockpit changes. Have just made do with stock so far. At 5’10”, the stock 70mm stem on size Large frame definitely stretches me out slightly too much, but only just, so I have a renthal Apex 50mm to fit, but concerned it may be a bit cramped then. May have to be 60mm. I’m also planning to get some new bars – either 740mm Renthal fatbar lite carbon, or the Renthal 780mm carbons. Again, 780mm may be excessive for a trail bike. Could trim to 760mm. If they have less backsweep than the stock Whyte bars, then perhaps that 50mm stem will be ok in terms of reach.

But yes, great bike.

Indeed but – as is often the case these days – it also has a steep seat angle, so you need to get on with that, which I don’t. Not too bad if you can fit a layback post but none of the current droppers have layback yet so… The Whyte is slacker is this respect (SA).

Why don’t you get on with steep seat angles? ❓

Isnt the rationale with a steep seat angle to improve seated climbing and balance out the slacker head angle on these bikes?

I might be missing something but the Intense Spider is way over my budget of 2k ish. Is there a cheaper version?

typically I havent read all of that, but would thoroughly recommend the mega tr275….I’ve been really impressed by mine, rides long days ok, jumps well and is good on the tight twisty steep stuff.
currently cheapish on crc too.

I like the Nukeproof but think 150mm up front is overkill for xc. I’ll have a look at the rest of the range tho.

Why don’t you get on with steep seat angles?

Because I end up wanting the saddle further back. I understand the logic of the designer – shifting weight forward to deal with a lighter front end to aid climbing. But I like my saddle relative to the cranks, not the bars, and 75+deg is just too TT for me. I run a Trek Remedy and, like I said, with alayback it’s just about fine but with the Reverb stealth the saddle is just too far forward. Obviously on the way down stuff it’s irrelevant but on more XC sections is just too far forward. I have quite long femurs though… so this is just me.

Theres an interesting discussion of reach/toptube/seat angle here

http://www.transitionbikes.com/PDF/GETDIALED_FrameGeo_Part1_ETTvsReach.pdf

I’ve been reading up on the Norco Sight and like what I’m reading. Being a bit out of touch with current tech how would the Sight compare to my old 100/115mm FSR for XC rides? I know it will handle rough trails better and be much more stable on decents but thinking about climbing and flatter rides too.

Because I end up wanting the saddle further back. I understand the logic of the designer – shifting weight forward to deal with a lighter front end to aid climbing. But I like my saddle relative to the cranks, not the bars, and 75+deg is just too TT for me. I run a Trek Remedy and, like I said, with alayback it’s just about fine but with the Reverb stealth the saddle is just too far forward. Obviously on the way down stuff it’s irrelevant but on more XC sections is just too far forward. I have quite long femurs though… so this is just me.

Most roadbikes are even steeper than that…..being way behind the cranks isn’t very efficient.

Anyway you can get these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/vk-saddle-adjuster-prod1249/

and even saddles with extra long rails if you can’t find a a dropper post with enough layback eg http://www.sellesanmarco.it/en/aspide-carbon-fx-open

Obviously on the way down stuff it’s irrelevant but on more XC sections is just too far forward. I have quite long femurs though… so this is just me.

Are you riding flats or clips? With flats you can put your feet further forwards whilst with clips you can move the cleats backwards, both of which will give a slacker effective seat angle.

The other thing that the Transition document about reach vs ETT doesn’t mention is that the higher the stack height, the longer the ETT for the same reach and seat tube angle.

There’s a good discussion about that here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/knolly/long-reach-wheelbase-discussion-928997.html
including some input from Noel from Knolly.

I find a long reach and long wheel base actually helps me in the tight stuff, it gives me loads more confidence loading up the front wheel without feeling like I’m going to wash the front end out.

You go light on the rear and pivot around the front wheel letting the rear wheel slide sometimes, it’s a different style to how a lot of riders used to ride, with either weight equally distributed or with a heavy bias to the rear and light on the front.

So after reading up on these bikes a lot i think my list has been refined to:

Whyte T130 / T130 works if possible
Norco Sight 7.4
Commencal Meta Trail Essential

Really appreciate all the input it’s helped me lots.

Rocky Mountain thunderbolt?

http://www.bikemag.com/videos/rocky-mountain-thunderbolt-2015-bible-bike-tests-roundtable-reels/

In terms of value for money / spec, the T130 is well in the lead, from that list. The works version is stunning.

I took a punt on a Whyte m109c without really trying before buying ,but I did the reviews , im so glad I did , There is a reason Whyte bikes get a glowing review T130 for me mate

Most roadbikes are even steeper than that [75.5deg]…..being way behind the cranks isn’t very efficient.

No they aren’t. Most are between 72 and 74.

That Rocky Mountain is lovely but way out my price range.

Think there are quite a few cheaper versions?

So a trip to a couple of bike shops are planned. I did a bit of research on reach and head angles and the Transition Scout doesnt seem much slacker than other mid travel bikes so thats back on my list. Quite like the idea of less rear travel. Something like a 130rear /140front might be a good setup for me.

Ok, i’ve had another think about what most of you have said about not worrying about the travel too much. Looking at som of the suggested bikes have opened up a few more doors. Thinking about how my riding has changed over the last couple of years; i tend to be the one during ride to hit the stairs faster and look for fun trails rather than the quickest way to the top, i think a more ‘fun’ bike would be better suited. So if i was looking at an efficient 140/140 trail bike what should i look at? I read about the Norco Sight which is still on my list but are there any others that are can still be peddled efficiently?

If you want “fun” then the Pyga should definitely be on your list.

Transition bandit 650b. Nice new frame for sale over in the classifieds. 😀

Easily complete a well spec’d build for under £2k.

My Whyte T130 Works is a great bike sadly not riding it due to damaged shoulder/collar bone but the moth I did get out on it it was simply superb.

Test ride is your friend in these situations.

No they aren’t. Most are between 72 and 74.

The seat tube angle isn’t static though on a full susser is it?

As soon as you sag the bike, it was my understanding that the effective seat tube angle becomes a fair bit slacker. The Scout will end up at 73.5 or 74.5 when sagged depending on the size of the bike, won’t it?

So about the same angle as a racey road bike.

That’s the scout then, or that bandit frame. Mine is the 650b one and it pedals uphill great! Good enough for top ten on strava on a quantocks climb anyway

Is the transition bandit a current model or 2014 only?

bandit 650b was 2014 only. It was 26 before that and I guess the scout now replaces it in the line up with the patrol replacing the covert as well.

I’m still liking the look of the scout but worried it will be unsuitable for fast xc rides.

Go on a demo ride and find out.

Not sure if its still the case but a couple years back Transition had a demo fleet that they could send out to your LBS.

Well it’s not a race bike but I think it would be fine. The bandit I have has beaten every strava pr I have up and downhill, it keeps pace with everyone I ride with, 29ers and hard tails included, it’s done day rides on exmoor and quantocks, not sure how much more xc you need? The scout is supposed to be the same fun bike downhill with better pedalling suspension.

To expand, I demoed amongst others a 5 and a transition covert before getting the bandit. Both the 5 and the covert felt like you were “carrying” a lot of unnecessary bike on the fiat/ uphill bits (although the covert was a smooth monster going down) the bandit never feels like it’s too much bike on the trails.

I think with the advances in suspension and geometry since your old bike was new, you might be surprised by how well these bikes pedal. I think any of your options is likely to a good one! Everything has some kind of compromise it depends on where you make it. If you want something that excels at fast xc rides then you are going to compromise fun descending and be looking at somthing like a spesh epic. If you’re not racing though, I think you will find that a modern mid travel trail bike is plenty quick enough

Thanks ceepers. I’ve started making a list of the pros and cons of each bike on my list and any compromises.

Go on a demo ride and find out.

Not sure if its still the case but a couple years back Transition had a demo fleet that they could send out to your LBS.

Absolutely this. Or your local Transition dealer may have their own demo fleet. If they don’t, surely worth travelling to somewhere else with great riding and a range of bikes to try. Just sayin’.

While looking at frames I’m noticing more have a direct mount front dérailleur. If in the future I have a 1×10/11 setup will this cause a problem or just look a bit messy?

It won’t cause problems. Can look a bit messy but you might want a chain guide – if not then blanking plates are available.

Transition have some 2015 demo bikes available already, I’ve had their smuggler out myself. I’d get in touch with your local dealer for a demo.