Hello
Off to the Lakes with the lads for this time this weekend. Based in Conistion for 3 and a half days riding.

Looking at routes and saw this: https://lakesmtb.co.uk/routes/staveley-3-passes/

We’re trying to work out if we can handle it.
Nearest thing I can think of we’ve all done was the Torridon Lollipop route which was about as physically/technically demanding as we can handle.
Anyone done both and can compare? This Lakes one looks like a serious amount of climbing – 8000ft in 25 miles.

One thing I thought of was the possibility of just bailing out at passes 1 or 2 if it’s too tough for folk. Does that work?

I would have said that while they’re similar in terms of effort, the 3 Passes is more technical. Not much more, but definitely moreso. There’s more hike-a-bike too.

I’m sure there is something wrong there. Thats never 8000′ of climbing. Theres a lot but not that much.

Still be a big day out though. Probably on a par with the lollipop if you added in the climb up to Bealach a Choire Ghairbh

Its more like 1550m climbing so 5000ft. The climbing is mostly steady enough with the hardest part being the hike-a-bike at the end of the last climb. There is a steep section at the top of the last descent but its not particularly long. If you are used to pacing yourself and bring plenty of food and water you should be alright.

If your flagging then instead of descending Gatesgarth to Haweswater, head over Harter Fell and down to Nan Bield.

Just put in into OS route maker and it comes out at 6400 of ascent.

Just seen that it’s the Staveley 3 Passes – I’d say it was actually an easier ride in terms of technicality but it will feel like a big day out. The problem is that Gatesgarth as a descent is a total was of time, it’s just a landrover track – I’d do as Lowey says anyway. The climb up to the top of Gatesgarth is pretty horrid too.

I’d try to head west and do the actual 3 Passes.

What’s the actual 3 Passes?

What’s the actual 3 Passes?

Theres the 4 passes, which I would say is a lot better.
https://my.viewranger.com/route/details/OTIxOTE=

Lots of hike a bike, only 1 pass that will be ridden and thats because its on road. The descents are superb though

Or as an alternative, head to the top of Garburn, but then turn left and go along to Mardale Ill Bell, before dropping down to Nan Bield. Then descend Nan Bield to Haweswater (mega techy but more of it goes than you’d think), before climbing up Gatesgarth and Harter Fell. Then descend Nan Bield down into Kentmere.
No idea how far it is, but you’ll comfortably be able to do it in a day if you’re of average fitness – just plod your way up the climbs.

many years ago I did the Three Passes as a route guide for Singletrack. It is properly tough, a full day out. It’s not 8000ft climbing though, closer to about 5000ft. You ca miss a lot out by doing the Harter Fell cut through from Gatescarth rather than dropping down to Haweswater. Technically it’s footpath but no-one up there will care, it’s remote enough to only have proper walkers on it, not the car-park trundlers.

What’s the actual 3 Passes?

On this one its Garburn, Gatesgarth and Nan Beild.

The better one is Honister, Scarth, Black Sail and Sty Head.

An alternative that we did on Sunday was set off from Wheelbase at Staveley, over to the bottom of Garburn, down to Limefitt, hike up High Street, drop off Ill Bell and then Nan Bield back (I wanted to add Green Quarter but both lads I was with got cramp so we had to miss it out). The route out isn’t technical at all, just a nice XC spin in beautiful remote surroundings, hike up onto High Street isn’t as bad as some others (I prefer it to Gatescarth and Harter, even though there is more hiking).

Descent off Ill Bell into Nan Bield is quite techy but all rideable if you let it roll and even if you have to walk bits of it, you won’t be off the bike for long. You should be fine down Nan Bield itself; switchbacks can phase some but they aren’t that bad. Next section isn’t exactly a flow trail but is tons of fun if you keep momentum up.
Mid section can be a bit boggy but was dry on Saturday so should be ok, even with the forecast rain.

That route worked out at 23 miles and 3300’ of climbing; you will be round in four hours easily unless you take a lot of breaks.

8000 feet….. three passes. As various people already posted, that sounds unlikely. Either there’s loads of in between climbs or each “pass” is actually Munro height. Which seems unlikely.

Did that route about 20+ years ago on a Kona Lava Dome. Pushed/carried a lot, up and down.

Aye, head west and do 4 passes. Esk hause to Stockley bridge is absolutely sublime.

OK, had a look at what you guys have been saying and come up with a route after poring over the maps I’d bought.

Basically Staveley -> Garburn Pass -> Ill Bell -> High Street -> Marder Ill Bell -> Nan Bield.
At this point you can go down to Haweswater then back up via Gatescarth and Harter Fell and meet the route again. This will let anyone who is knackered miss out that loop and wait for us. There’s a shelter marked on the map at that point too?

From there you go down the valley to Kentmere. At that point you can go to the pub, go back up Garburn Pass to descend it or go back to Staveley on the road or on paths either side of the valley.

https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/route/3280730/Staveley-Garburn-High-Street-Nan-Bield-Haweswater-Harter-Fell-Kentmere

6300 feet of climbing over 20 miles. A fair bit, but do-able.

As for the Four Passes one, we’ll do that the next day. We’re heading down from Scotland Friday morning, so planning on riding at Gisburn Friday afternoon, this Staveley one Saturday, the Four Passes Sunday and then have a go round Drumlanrig on the way home.

Dont underestimate the Four Passes. It’s a brutal day out (but bloody brilliant). I’m not that fit, but your Stavely route followed by the Four Passes the next day would see me comfortably off.

Did you say your staying in Coniston ? Some world class riding from there as well you know.

Just a thought but your friends not wanting to descend Nan Bield north and climb back up Gatescarth & Harter Fell will be waiting a long time (hour and a half?), the shelter is basically three walls to hide from the wind behind.

Nan Bield north and Harter Fell are pretty technical too; not sure they fit in with your initial request for whether you will be fine to ride them. I would say that if you struggle with the short drop from Mardale Ill Bell to the top of Nan Bield then taking the additional loop will involve a lot of lowering.

Or as an alternative, head to the top of Garburn, but then turn left and go along to Mardale Ill Bell, before dropping down to Nan Bield. Then descend Nan Bield to Haweswater

Or, do this but just drop straight down the Nan Bield switchbacks then add on the HP Wood loop in Kentmere to finish. makes about 1,200m and 35km. Easier than the lollipop, better than the classic 3 passes IMO.

Next time I’m gonna try the northern Nan Bield descent and just carry back up it though. Harter Fell down to Nan Bield was the wrong side of being rideable for me.

Did the Four Passes on Good Friday, glorious weather but I was a bit ill and really suffered. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done physically – it’d normally be tough but quite within my ability if fully well.

*Controversial opinion*

On reflection, it’s not all that really.

The descent from Sty Head is good and the Warnscale descent is excellent (but way rougher with loads of random boulders on track than it used to be).

The other two descents are nothing special IMO – and the unpredictably skiddy kitty litter covering a lot of them was well annoying.

I rode the 3 Passes last May having last ridden it a good few years ago.

– The footpath shortcut to the top of Nanbield is a good move. A fair bit of the climb up is still ridable, the views from the top are good and there’s a short descent as well that’s more interesting than the wide track to Haweswater and carry up (unless you get a kick out of carrying your bike).
– It was a lot easier than I remembered (i guess down to avoiding the Nanbield climb)
– NanBield to Kentmere was a big disappointment. My memory of it was a techy descent followed by a long flowing singletrack but the trail in the valley had too many boggy sections (though everywhere else we rode that trip was really dry)
– The Garburn loop was riding better than it has for a long long while. Completely climbable up the shallow side and rideable down the steep.

My ride was showing up as 1400m, 47km starting at Staveley. Most route guides seem to use the A591 to Mislet – we ride up to Kentmere from Staveley and over Hugill Fell (?) to Mislet.

A better, big, ride we did that week was Walna Scar. 42km, 1300m. Start at Coniston, up into Grizedale, along the ridge and down to High Nibthwaite. Across to (what shows on Strava’s mapping) as Stephenson Ground Farm, then over the top rather than dropping down to Dunnerdale so you meet the Walna Scar climb about half way up. More great riding on that the on the 3 passes IMO.

Can send you GPX for both

@chapaking – glad it’s not just me on that descent of Harter Fell. Then again being on a rigid bike, no dropper and cable brakes makes everything a little “interesting”!

@simons_nicolai-uk – the Troutbeck side of Garburn was resurface/sanitised some years ago so the comment in the OP’s link about it being techy is well out of date. The very bottom section from the main road up to the track junction would be difficult to clean as it’s rocky and greasy due to being under trees.

Your Coniston/Walna Scar loop sounds like PedalNorth’s Tour of Coniston – http://pedalnorth.com/tour-de-coniston/

the Troutbeck side of Garburn was resurface/sanitised some years ago so the comment in the OP’s link about it being techy is well out of date. The very bottom section from the main road up to the track junction would be difficult to clean as it’s rocky and greasy due to being under trees.

It’s been sanitised a few times since I started riding there but can change in a winter. I’ve known it unrideable babies heads, smooth but loose unrideable gravel, massive water erosion on the gravel (unrideable due to deep trenches). It was perfect last year all the way up – rough, techy but doable.

The Tour of Coniston you’ve posted misses the right turn at the bridge on Walna Scar which gives another great section of riding (through “Calf Close Coppice”) rather than a wide gravel descent to Coniston.

@chakaping – agreed. Anything that misses out a descent of Gatesgarth is a good shout. Horrible, flat, drifty corners.
Gotta disagree with you about the Four Passes though. Admittedly Scarth Gap to Blacksail isn’t amazing, but Blacksail to Wasdale Head is great. I think the appeal of the whole route is the scale of it all and that it’s a pretty committing route once you’ve got started.

I’ve done the descent just after the bridge that goes past Tranearth down to Torver but not the BW that cuts off Walna Scar somewhere around the rock “gates” and ends up just south of Coniston somewhere around the pub on the main road if that’s the one you mean.

Nan Bield’s mid section was running really well last weekend, the boggy bits were pretty dry and it will take a fair bit of rain before the bog returns.
It’s probably the most polarising trail I know as people seem to either love or hate it. I’ve known people to all but walk the switchbacks and then detest the singletrack as it can be hard to keep moving if you’re going slow or (dare I say) not too technical a rider. It’s not that it’s technically challenging per se, more that you need to be quite physical with the bike to really enjoy it.

Sometimes the Nan Bield descent seems really long, other times you get to the first gate before you expect.

Love it personally, but I do avoid if likely to be boggy.

I think the appeal of the whole route is the scale of it all and that it’s a pretty committing route once you’ve got started.

Can’t argue with that, but it’s one I’m happy to just do every other year or so.

Totally agree about the Gatescarth descent to Haweswater, utterly dull and not worth doing given the climb back up. We last used it on the C2C years ago now (preferable to crossing a marsh to Shap, just) and it was awful; gravelly, off camber turns, like a badly designed Sustrans path.

Another option for a bigger ride out that way would be to drop off High Street down to Patterdale past Angle Tarn, climb back up onto High Street and then return via Nan Bield. 6000’ ascent? I wanted to do this last weekend too, but my companions told me to f@&k off.

A better, big, ride we did that week was Walna Scar. 42km, 1300m. Start at Coniston, up into Grizedale, along the ridge and down to High Nibthwaite. Across to (what shows on Strava’s mapping) as Stephenson Ground Farm, then over the top rather than dropping down to Dunnerdale so you meet the Walna Scar climb about half way up. More great riding on that the on the 3 passes IMO.

Did pretty much this last weekend. But it’s even better if you don’t go direct to Walna Scar as above, but climb the fire road from the edge of Broughton Forest, then descend to Stephenson Ground on the other side of the stream, before crossing Long Mire and taking the Park Head Road to Seathwaite. Makes the pushing bit worse, but Park Head is, IMO, as good if not better than the WS descent. Also, when you get to the WS car park, instead of heading down the road, either head left and climb up to the descent on the right of Church Beck all the way into Coniston, or turn right and pick up the BW into Coniston.

Does include Hummer Lane though. I hate Hummer Lane.

(Of course, there is also the other 2/3 Passes Route – Langdale – Rossett Gill – Styhead – Langstrath – Stake Pass) 🙂

Did the tour de Coniston last week. Didn’t do the detour described by martinhutch (although I have previously) but did do the decent from half way down WS through the quarries to Torver.

Some biggish road sections, but overall a mint day out.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2296975856

I take the point about doing the two big rides back to back… We’ll play that one by ear and maybe exchange the 4 passes for the Coniston Tour.. I’ve got maps, the OS app and my Garmin with mapping so hopefully won’t get lost.

I’m feeling good for it, been training in the gym and on the bike 5 days a week since New Year, and I know a couple of the lads have just done some endurance events. One boy hasn’t been out much and not sure about another lad’s fitness…..

Simon-Nicolai, do you have your gpx of the Coniston/Walna Scar ride?

Can I recommend starting at Stavely, up to High Borrans via Sawmill Cottage, ascend Garburn from the Troutbeck side but at the saddle head north over Yoke and Froswick to Mardale Ill Bell before descending to Nan Bield? If you are still in fine fettle, you could head over the BOAT to Toms How then return via Cocklaw Fell. I like this ride as it keeps you high for a long time with great views. The ascent of Garburn from Troutbeck is the easier of the two ways of going up it.

As for the four passes, I did it last week on E bikes with Nick Craig and Resident Grumpy aka Mark of this parish for the mag. I think it is fair to say we broke Mark both physically and emotionally by the end. Fair play, to his great credit he managed it but reckoned it was the hardest thing he had ever done on a bike. Evidently, my previous missions of humfing over 40 pounds of fat bike up Munros is great training for such a mission! You can read about it in a forthcoming issue.

With normal bikes, it is still a challenging ride. Styhead looks rideable but the loose rock under tyre made getting traction, even with an e bike, really difficult. Bloody brilliant day out though. The scenery and riding are terrific but if you don’t embrace and enjoy hike a bike adventures, you may well have a bit of a mare.

Or how about Causey Pike over to Whiteless Pike, descend via the bluebells of Rannerdale Knotts, hike a bike up Gasgale Gill then over to Grisedale Pike to finish. An absolute gem of a ride for the hike a bike crew.

Cheers

Sanny

descend via the bluebells of Rannerdale Knotts

I’m all for a bit of cheeky, but descending Rannerdale at this time of year wont do any of us any favours.

Yeah, Rannerdale in bluebell season is best kept for late evenings when no one’s around, not Sunday afternoons. I’d also suggest that Whiteless, Causey and Grisedale Pikes are all a fair bit techier than Nan Bield (at least in sections). Brilliant riding though

Oh, and @chakaping – if you found Harter Fell to Nan Bield the wrong side of rideable, large chunks of Nan Bield to Haweswater are even harder so be prepared to walk some bits.

I think it is fair to say we broke Mark both physically and emotionally by the end.

Did his battery run out?

As for the four passes, I did it last week on E bikes with Nick Craig and Resident Grumpy aka Mark of this parish for the mag.

You may have seen the recent Steve Jones / Adam Brayton video where they tackled the route on ebikes – but bizarrely didn’t capture any of the hike-a-bike sections or even mention that it’s a bit of an absurd route to do on an ebike?

Oh, and @chakaping – if you found Harter Fell to Nan Bield the wrong side of rideable, large chunks of Nan Bield to Haweswater are even harder so be prepared to walk some bits.

Always prepared to walk some bits, don’t worry. I’ve actually only ridden the Harter Fell drop in very strong gusty winds TBF, which made me reluctant to chance some bits I normally might.

Fair enough re Rannerdale comments.

Not seen that video. Off to have a look. I wouldn’t describe it as an epic though. Just a bit harder than it needed to be. We had no issues with battery life. We all had loads of battery life left by the end. Next time, we would rag the hell out of the battery instead of riding mostly in Eco mode. I came away with a much clearer idea of the capability of e bikes and am already planning another adventure.

We wanted to see what was possible on an e bike. My original idea was to do an off road version of the Fred Whitton route but it was suggested that I was being a bit ambitious. Having done the 4 passes, I’m even keener to do the Fred now on an e bike.

Mark took a lot of video. It chronicles the reality of the ride, warts and all, as opposed to a slick edit that focuses only on the descents.

Cheers

Sanny

I think Four Passes would be an epic for a lot of people. Just a big ride for others though yeah.

I’d be interested to see how much further up you could pedal on an ebike, thus gaining an advantage, before having to carry it and it become a disadvantage.

Not surprised you came away with plenty of bars left though, there’s hardly any pedaling (relative to the height gain).

Honister climb must have felt good vs. leaving it til last on a normal bike!

do you have your gpx of the Coniston/Walna Scar ride?

no problem – but need to know where to send it….

simon dot still at gmail.com

Did the Tour de Coniston today.
Absolutely brilliant!

Such a great ride, maybe one of the best I’ve ever done. Basically it had everything. We also had all weathers – from bright sun to getting lashed with sideways hail.

The last climb was a bit of a soul sucker, but the descent in Consiton was absolutely amazing. Very surprised how well my hardtail handled it – I was absolutely flying along!