Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)
  • Stanton vs Cotic
  • Premier Icon oysterkite
    Full Member

    So I’m looking at a steel 29 hardtail build (130/140 forks) both Cotic and Stanton have what looks like very similar offerings with the Solaris Max and the Switch9er (geometry appears to be pretty much the same) Medium below

    Stack   Reach   VTT.      ATT   Seat Tube.  HTA    STA.     WB

    Switch9er.  610.     453.     605       594.    420.           65.5.  74.5.    1203

    Solaris Max.    606.     457.      638.      –   425.          65.4.   73.4.      1199

    Stanton a bit more spendy, lifetime warranty, Cotic maybe a bit more tried & tested for a LLS 29er? Quality of frame finish similar?

    ( full disclosure, already got a Stanton Switchback 27.5 which is really really good but for some reason swaying towards the Cotic…….help!  )

    Any thoughts on the dilemma?

    cheers

    Premier Icon solarider
    Full Member

    I can’t see any justification for the price difference. I haven’t ridden a Stanton. However, I do own a Solaris Max and have owned quite a few exotic bikes over the years. I can honestly say that the Cotic is right at the top of the list. It is lively, well made and there is a warm and cosy feeling of supporting a small UK operation run by a great chap.

    I suppose the same same could be said for Stanton, but Cotic just edges it on price. I personally also prefer the standard chainstays on the Cotic vs the link plate on the Stanton.

    There are are a lot of Cotic fanboys, and maybe I sound like one of them. But that isn’t blind dedication. There’s solid reason in terms of quality, geometry, support and the hard to define ‘feel’.

    Ultimately they are are both nice but you won’t go wrong with the Cotic.

    Premier Icon trisysjoint
    Full Member

    I have a Solaris 27.5+ running with 140mm 650b forks. As Solarider says, there’s just a great feel to them.

    It munches the miles but drop the saddle and it’s like being out with an excitable little puppy of a bike.

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Free Member

    You’ve missed off the critical differences in geometry, BB height and chainstay length.

    Cotic vs Stanton:

    BB drop 55.5 vs 70mm

    Chainstay length 444 vs 428mm

    There are pros and cons to both, you could say the Cotic is more suited to more natural trails and the Stanton to more built trails but it really comes down to personal preference.

    Premier Icon cokie
    Free Member

    I’ve got a SolarisMAX LS and love it. It’s a fantastic bike. It’s my first Cotic. The geomtry just works. Happy enough messing around in the woods as well as long days in the saddle doing XC or uplift days. The short ST means you can put in a long dropper and have plenty of room to move around on the bike. I bit of a revelation over my old 529. Mines a medium setup with 130mm. If you’re local to Abingdon, come and have a go.

    The Stanton looks interesting. It’s more expensive, yet made from ‘only’ Reynolds 631. I do like the sliding/interchangable dropouts and custom paint options though. That said, £100 for paint is steep. You can get a frame powdercoated to a very high standard for far less, and that includes prep. They also need a better way of displaying paint finish rather than a 5mm square.

    Premier Icon qwerty
    Free Member

    The new  2019 Pace 29er ?

    Premier Icon superfli
    Free Member

    Price difference is only £50 for std colours. So I wouldn’t get held up on that if you are spending nearly £700. I’ve not ridden either, but the Stanton sounds a little more playful. Cotic often do demo days, but harder to get a Stanton demo.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    Do Stanton let you demo from their HQ like Cotic?

    If so, you could have a nice day in the peak finding out which you prefer.

    Definitely demo the Solaris anyway, the Stanton will probably just feel like a mixture of that and your existing bike (mainly the short rear end).

    As to finish and all that, Mr Stanton has previously justified his higher price by pointing at the more fancypants construction and detailing – which is fair enough if you like that sort of thing.

    Premier Icon bungalistic
    Full Member

    Can’t really compare the ones you’re looking at but I much preferred my old Slackline to the older BFe I had. I’ve also ridden the Sherpa and new Solarix Max and both equally as good (although aimed at different people I guess).

    Premier Icon danti
    Full Member

    They were (not sure if still) running Stanton Saturdays when you could demo bikes.

    Give them a call and I’m sure they can sort something out.

    Premier Icon jeffl
    Full Member

    I know Stanton recently started making their frames in the UK whilst some are still made in Taiwan and painted in the UK if that sort of thing bothers you. Not sure which camp the Switch9er falls into.

    Premier Icon cokie
    Free Member

    I know Stanton recently started making their frames in the UK whilst some are still made in Taiwan and painted in the UK if that sort of thing bothers you. Not sure which camp the Switch9er falls into.

    It’s only the FS bikes that are made in the UK, Switchback FS & Switch9er FS. They’ve added the little ‘Designed & Manufactures in the Derbershyre Dales, UK’ logo to those frames. I do like that they’ve brought some of the manufacturing in house.

    Premier Icon tdog
    Free Member

    The new Pace 29er iirc, just to chuck in another option like

    Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    The Stanton will be a bit heavier – it has plate yoke and more tubing / gussets.

    The Stanton has a bigger choice of sizes.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Bigger choice of tyres? Do you mean it has more tyre clearance? Because the new SolarisMAX has a lot…

    Premier Icon andytheadequate
    Free Member

    I’d just pick the one you like the look of most.

    Premier Icon oysterkite
    Full Member

    Luckily they both look great, maybe the longer chainstay & bb height of the Cotic might suit the riding I have in mind ie bigger days out, covering a bit more ground etc (also already got a ‘playful’ switchback for Uk park days, Surrey Hills etc) The reach on the 16 »Switch9 is quite a bit longer than on the 16.5 switchback btw

    Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    LOL. I actually meant the Solaris has a bigger choice of sizes.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    Get the Cotic so you’ve got one of each.

    Then you can have a schizophrenic meltdown on the Steel is Real Facebook page when people ask which is best and the rabid fanbois come out.

    Premier Icon dumbbot
    Free Member

    Nobody mentioning the slacker ST angle on the cotic, it’s really the only thing I’ve heard people complaining about their bikes..

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Full Member

    I have a Stanton Sherpa and I have a variety of Cotic 29ers.

    had it been a choice between Sherpa and a non LS geo SolarisMAX I’d have difficulty in choosing again. The Sherpa is more fun but the SolarisMAX is more comfortable (and better sized for me). However, the LS geo changed everything for me. The confidence gained from the new SolarisMAX made me push the Sherpa more, but it’s no choice for me now.

    but that’s the Sherpa….

    is the Stanton worth more? Well, paint is a bit nicer and overall it’s a very nice looking frame, you can see details that add costs (the chain stay thingee and the changeable dropouts). Lifetime warranty (which appeared respectively for me) is a comfort if you need it.

    i run my Sherpa B+ and I’m affected with pedal strike (but I ride ‘natural’ trails, mostly in the Cairngorms). I still get the odd strike on my Cotic 29er so for me a lower b/b doesn’t work.

    with regards to STA I just push the saddle forwards…

    the longer chainstays, to me, make the climbing much better (my mk1 Solaris has a horribly light front end when it gets granny gear steep).

    will the weight/tube spec make a difference? Yes, but it’ll be what you feel. I’ve gone lighter/livelier myself…

    cotic works better for me personally and I should really have sold the Sherpa by now (but I haven’t).

    Premier Icon squealer
    Free Member

    I’ll just chuck in the pipedream moxie.  I’ve owned 2 Stanton’s previously and the moxie blows them away.

    I’ve never ridden a cotic though

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Full Member

    Nobody mentioning the slacker ST angle on the cotic, it’s really the only thing I’ve heard people complaining about their bikes..

    I’ve heard people complain that the chainstays are too long, the BB is too high and the SA is too slack on the Cotics. I think each one of those puts some people off, but I wonder if those three work together. If you have fashionably short chainstays then maybe you need to drop the BB for stability and steepen the SA to get your weight in the right place. But with longer stays you can raise the BB for more clearance and slacken the SA to give a bike that’s just a stable and playful but feels more balanced and relaxed too.

    TL:DR. It’s all compromises and not just about one number as they all interact.

    Premier Icon oysterkite
    Full Member

    Some great input here thanks guys, the most obvious differences then are the seat angle (slacker on the Cotic so maybe more of an issue climbing?) but possibly offset by the longer chainstay on the Cotic? . I also ride a Switchback 27.5 with a long fork which is a bit more of a challenge when it gets super steep but I don’t mind because it’s soo good downhill. Not sure what impact the lower bb of the Stanton might have (apart from rockstrikes). I think the finish on the Stanton probably is a bit better but you are paying for it.

    Premier Icon bowglie
    Full Member

    I’m a Cotic fanboy and have owned/own quite a few. However, a couple of years ago, I bought a Solaris and my wife bought a Stanton Sherpa first gen in their frame sale.  Both bikes size large – once I’d had a go on the Sherpa, I sold my Solaris.  If you ride the two back to back, you’ll appreciate why the Stanton is more expensive.  Difficult to put a finger on exactly why, but the Solaris frame just felt a bit dead and dull feeling in comparison.  The Stanton feels like a really good quality steel frame.  I wondered if it’s the thickness of the walls of the tubes, or the different type of steel used in the rear triangle.

    i guess things might have evened up a bit now with the latest Solaris(?), but if there’s any way you can get a quick ride on both, I’d seriously recommend it.  (Cotic and Stanton HQ’s are close enough to visit on the same day).

    Premier Icon sheck
    Full Member

    Just built up a new Sherpa frame… it feels very capable and sophisticated, and has a noticeable spring in its step on flat/undulating trails that I haven’t felt since selling a Soul a few years back. I have had a Solaris in the interim, which was just a bit blunt for my taste

    Premier Icon mindmap3
    Free Member

    The Stanton feels like a really good quality steel frame.  I wondered if it’s the thickness of the walls of the tubes, or the different type of steel used in the rear triangle.

    This. The 853 tubeset of the Sherpa / Slackline is really very very good. It feels nicer than the second gen Ti Switchback I had when I rode them back together. Up close, the Stanton is a lovely thing with a cracking finish and nice little details.

    I recently demoed the Stanton and liked everything about it BUT the BB is in my opinion too low and there were pedal strikes galore! If you mainly ride trail centers or your local riding is more swoopy than tech then it would be a good choice, however I ride mainly in the Peak District and needed a higher BB. In the end I bought a Nordest Bardino (55mm BB drop vs 70mm) and am very happy with it.

    Premier Icon ericjayowsley
    Free Member

    I’m confused by some of the posts above. There are multiple references to the Stanton having a lower bottom bracket relative to the Cotic. I’m currently looking at the Stanton Sherpa Next Gen in large part because the bottom bracket drop listed on the geometry chart is only 50mm. That’s less drop than almost any other 29er frame I’ve found — at least those with clearance for good size tires. The SolarisMax has a stated bottom bracket drop of 60mm. Are posters above referring to past model years? Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Free Member

    The Stanton posts are referring to the Switch9er, not the Sherpa.

    Premier Icon Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    IMO low BB height is preferable even if you ride in chunder. It’s better to run shorter cranks than to accept a higher BB.

    I’m also not convinced that short chain stays are the panacea of hardtail design either. On anything other than flow trails they make the back end more prone to skittishness and wheel spinning on climbs, so it does depend on what you’re planning to do with it. The Cotics seat tube angle is begining to look conservative now too, and it’s a big component of the LLS equation.

    Premier Icon kayla1
    Free Member

    Having owned a few Cotics and a couple of Stantons, I’d go with another Stanton. The ‘low’ BB on the Switchback wasn’t a problem even with 26″ wheels in it.

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Full Member

     I should really have sold the Sherpa by now (but I haven’t).

    Is that a stealth ad, and is it a next gen? 🙂

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Full Member

    I think chainstays, BB height and seat angle all need to be considered together. Short chainstays (e.g. Switch9er) sort of require a low BB and steep SA. Longer chainstays (e.g. Solaris) lend themselves to a higher BB and slacker SA. Both work, just in a slightly different way and favouring slightly different terrain. It’s a very rough rule of course (as both work fine everywhere) but I’d favour Solaris (oe Sherpa) if you mostly ride natural stuff and Switch9er if you mostly ride man-made stuff.

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Full Member

    Is that a stealth ad, and is it a next gen

    It might have been when I posted it but I’ve been running B+ chunky tyred all winter and bikepacking it (spring equinox bivvy just completed).

    Yes, it’s a new gen (142 bolt through though).

    Not currently for sale (but I have a Cotic demo in a couple of weeks…. 🤪)

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Free Member

    Well @oysterkite what did you choose in the end?

    Premier Icon mcdonagh2962
    Free Member

    I have the Solaris max long shot and love it to bits , I looked at the stanton as well before buying but for Me I wanted to use my old 31.6 dropper where the stanton was 30.9 so I went cotic to save on build price, I do think that cotic are missing a trick tho as stanton do a ‘re spraying option to bring your frame back to new after a few years riding , think cotic would prosper with this option .

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Stanton have their own paintshop… so can offer that service in house.

    Premier Icon solarider
    Full Member

    How can you even consider the Cotic with all of those downtube mounts?!

    If most other factors are roughly equal, that would sway it for me.

    I have owned a Solaris and loved it. I haven’t owned a Stanton but they do seem slightly nicer these days, and the UK finishing touches are nice.

    Ultimately both are great bikes from companies run by great people so it is tricky. The only real way to tell is to ride both yourself. Small variances in geometry on paper can either result in no perceivable difference in reality, or a significant difference.

    Interesting given how obvious and commonplace your dilemma is that no truly independent magazine has ever done a head-to-head………….

    Premier Icon dcwhite1984
    Full Member

    I have a Cotic BFE and a UK stanton switch9er FS, if i were to replace my hardtail it would be with another stanton.

    The build quality of both is good, but the Stanton is noticeably better.
    Plus with Stanton you have the option of going custom with the paint etc for additional cost.

    You can also choose between a UK made or Taiwan made Stanton with an increase in price for the UK made.
    Wait times may dictate your purchase, i know the Taiwan Switch9er Stanton frames were delayed and are expected around about now i think but i dont know if they will have any left after the orders that have been placed already, and im not sure what Cotic stock is like. Simple to phone both companies and find out though.

    On looks alone i prefer the Stanton’s as im not sure who signed off the new Cotic downtube logo and head badge but its enough to put me off updating my Bfe (Yes im aware it doesnt affect how it rides, but its gotta look good right)

    You wont regret either to be honest as they are both very nice bikes.

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