Cougar – Moderator

I did a speed awareness course and answered in the positive to the question of whether I considered myself an “above average” driver. This, I was told, is overconfidence; but I wasn’t really commenting on how great a driver I thought I was, I was commenting on how shit everyone else is.

Yep. TBH I’d be perfectly happy to be able to say I’m average- I’m a reasonable driver, but too many people aren’t.

I’d be very surprised if any man on here regarded them self as anything other than average or better when it comes to driving – yet it’s pretty obvious if you watch a road for 5 minutes that it’s simply not the case.

But wait, what if people take a long hard look at themselves and realise that maybe, just maybe they aren’t a good driver? Maybe they should even stop doing it for the safety of others? Their world would end – they can’t get to work, they lose their independence and they are seen as an oddity in general society. That’s why it doesn’t happen.

It’s easy to look at others an judge, and it’s even easier to forgive your own errors if there are no consequences.

One day though, there may be a consequence. And that consequence could be the taking of another person’s life. I’m sure some will say that’s a bit serious and unlikely, and that might be true.

All I know is, I never want to end someone’s life because I was only thinking of myself.

Here’s an idea:

All roads are converted to a tram/track system. The grid is powered remotely and speeds altered accordingly. People can still have cars (though they won’t have an engine), so there’s no need to actually travel anywhere under your own steam, or mix with the beastly proletariat. Those with self esteem/confidence issues can even by a more expensive/shinier PCB (Personal Carriage Box) to distinguish themselves above their friends if need be. Routes will be programmed into an on-dash computer and paid for by the mile.

Its the people who trundle along at 20-30mph in 40-50 zones that are my biggest bugbear. If there’s no reason not to do the speed limit then why don’t they do it?! That’s what leads to stupid overtakes in my experience and that’s when the danger element kicks in.

It’s a limit, not a target, and there’s no obligation to overtake. If people want to drive slower and give themselves more time to react to hazards, then let them. Any danger is caused entirely by the people doing impatient overtakes.

This does not, of course, apply to the oblivious mono-speeders doing 40 in an NSL, and then 40 in a 30.

pdw – Member

It’s a limit, not a target

And another fails the basic driving test.

And another fails the basic driving test.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Spin – Member

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Yes, if on your test you fail to make progress when it is safe to do so, you will fail.
In other words, the speed limit is a target to achieve when safe to do so.

As a genuine driving God, I feel no need to contribute to this thread.

😀

But wait, what if people take a long hard look at themselves and realise that maybe, just maybe they aren’t a good driver?

Whilst this makes a good point, I wonder if the process of believing you’re above average could be the best way to drive on today’s roads.
People who lack confidence in their driving can sometimes cause a reduction in the flow of traffic, which in turn leads to frustration and aggressive driving.

Yes, if on your test you fail to make progress when it is safe to do so, you will fail

Surely there’s a whole world of options between not doing the limit and failing to make progress?

what if people take a long hard look at themselves and realise that maybe, just maybe they aren’t a good driver?

It’s even got a name:

The Dunning-Kruger effect

Spin – Member

Surely there’s a whole world of options between not doing the limit and failing to make progress?

If it is safe to drive at the speed limit and you fail to drive at the speed limit, you will fail the test.

I’m not sure I can put that more clearly.

what if people take a long hard look at themselves and realise that maybe, just maybe they aren’t a good driver?

Then they should strive to improve.
If only the motoring world had someone like Jedi or any of the other well known instructors…

If it is safe to drive at the speed limit and you fail to drive at the speed limit, you will fail the test.

Are you aware of that ever happening?

What margin of error is one given by an examiner? If I was doing 27 in a 30 when it was safe to do 30 would I fail?

Sounds odd to me unless your low speed constituted a hazard to other road users.

Sounds odd to me unless your low speed constituted a hazard to other road users.

Indirectly yes as it encourages people to overtake you, which can be dangerous….

Spin – Member

Are you aware of that ever happening?

What margin of error is one given by an examiner? If I was doing 27 in a 30 when it was safe to do 30 would I fail?

Sounds odd to me unless your low speed constituted a hazard to other road users.

Yes.
Don’t know.
Do you have a driving licence (not trying to sound rude, but it’s stuff you should have been taught if you have)?

it’s stuff you should have been taught if you have)?

It was 20 odd years ago.

When I was a lot younger (late teens early twenties) I did a lot of speeding on the country roads behind where I lived. The OP asked why people speed. In my case it was simply because it was good fun and I got an adrenalin rush from it. Looking back I did some really stupid things and was a complete a**e at times. However hindsight is a wonderful thing and in those days I didn’t t cycle, and indeed there were far fewer cyclists on the road.

These days I’m a lot older and drive mostly within the limits. It’s not so much the fear of getting caught, more the fear that driving like a moron could kill or injure someone totally innocent, and I’d have to live with that guilt the rest of my life. The fact I now cycle a lot has also changed my views of speeding.

When I see some youngster in a car doing something daft part of me wants to see the police catch them and throw the book at them. However there’s another part of me that, while not condoning it, can kind of see why they are doing it.

I guess the obvious answer is to get more kids mountain biking and let them get their adrenalin rushes that way!

I was pulled over and chastised for not speeding when overtaking on an advanced motoribike assessed ride. My instructor was a police motorbike rider (on duty). The correct method, for a motorbike overtake, is to use the full power to minimise the duration of the overtake and then roll back to the speed limit (ie not braking). It did feel very odd riding round the lanes of Cambridgeshire at 90+ with a police bike following 100 yards behind….

I was pulled over and chastised for not speeding when overtaking on an advanced motoribike assessed ride. My instructor was a police motorbike rider (on duty).

I agree that on the whole a quick overtaking manouevre is a safe one. However when I did a speed awareness course the instructor said that was no excuse.

I was taught by my driving instructor that you should be doing the limit if it’s safe to do so. So straight but of NSL road you do 60 if it’s safe to do so, not 40. Likewise if it’s inky safe to do 40 due to rain, visibility you do 40.

The old duffers who just do 40 everywhere are just as dangerous as those breaking the limit. Firstly they ignore the 30 limit but then by going so slowly in clear NSL roads they hold others up and encourage them to overtake or do something silly. People get frustrated, I don’t think I’d believe anyone who says that they wouldn’t. Those who maintain a steady 40 everywhere are the same as those who bimble on trails and dint give way to faster riders.

Spin – Member

It was 20 odd years ago.

Time for a refresher! 😀

Seriously, I think everyone who wants to drive should have continual reassessment.

Seriously, I think everyone who wants to drive should have continual reassessment.

Are you a driving instructor?

FunkyDunc – Member

Cheekyboy that makes you just as selfish riding a mountain bike
Posted 4 hours ago #

I have obviously not held you up on the trail then with my considerate and safe riding. 🙂

Indirectly yes as it encourages people to overtake you, which can be dangerous..

So shall we ban all HGV from NSL single carraiage way roads then, as they are speeding at 41 / 60 so limiting everyones else’s ability to ‘make progress’

I am rubbing my chin and not entirely sure that if you drive at 50mph in a NSL you will fail your driving test.

Alot of buying into the freedom of the open road dream and the joy of motoring on this thread.

As for targets

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/driving/speed/toptentips/maximum.aspx

Speed overview

The County Council is responsible for setting speed limits on all public roads, except motorways and trunk roads.

Speed limits are set in accordance with criteria and guidance developed by the Department for Transport (DfT). The criteria ensure that speed limits are set in a consistent way that drivers understand and which promote road safety.

Drivers have a responsibility to drive carefully and safely, in accordance with the prevailing conditions on any road, which can often mean travelling at speeds considerably lower than the posted maximum limit. A speed limit is not a target speed.

Several factors are taken into account in the assessment of a road or area for a speed limit. These include:

General character of the road or area
Type and extent of roadside development
Traffic composition
Accident history
Current traffic speed
Enforcement
The frequency of junctions
Presence of amenities that attract pedestrians and cyclists
Environmental impact such as increased journey times, vehicles emissions, and the visual impact of the signing.

To be effective and influential a speed limit depends on drivers responding to these factors, particularly those with a visual impact. The speed limit should provide a key indication of the nature of the road or area and the activity of motorised and non-motorised road users. In this sense, the speed limit should fit the location so that the majority of drivers keep to the limit with minimal police attention.

The existing traffic speeds must be close to the proposed speed limit, to ensure compliance. If speeds are too high, then other measures may be considered to physically control speeds in exceptional cases where a speed limit reduction is recommended for safety reasons.

THINK! Advice

Drive to suit the conditions of the road
In some road conditions, even driving at the speed limit could be too fast. Factors that affect road conditions include fog, rain and traffic flow. The national speed limit is not a target speed.

The OP asked why people speed

NO I DIDN’T!! I know why they speed, ignorance, lack of concentration, stupidity, sometimes even because the road / conditions are conducive to it, etc.

I asked why when motorists are speeding on a bit of road that doesn’t support it, other motorists go out of their way to stop them being caught for it. You wouldn’t condone shoplifting, even more make efforts to warn the shoplifter there a store detective about to give them a better chance of getting away with it, so why is it ‘the done thing’ on roads?

Read the OP again.

The national speed limit is not a target speed

Apparently that would cause you to fail your driving test.

I asked why when motorists are speeding on a bit of road that doesn’t support it, other motorists go out of their way to stop them being caught for it. You wouldn’t condone shoplifting, even more make efforts to warn the shoplifter there a store detective about to give them a better chance of getting away with it, so why is it ‘the done thing’ on roads?

Because the person giving the warning thinks the posted speed limit is too low and is OK with both himself and other drivers breaking it.

As for shoplifters – other shoplifters would warn about store detectives so what is so surprising about drivers who sometimes speed warning other drivers about speed traps.

You might be close to the truth there. Which is worrying, because if true a significant proportion of drivers seemed to be ok with it.

I’m fine with the basis being you drive for the conditions but the speed limit should be a limit, whether you agree with it or not.

Speed cameras should be widespread, moved frequently, and hidden. Fines should be higher.

I reckon –
Limit + 10% £200 fine
Limit + 20% £400 fine plus 3 points
No ‘hardship’ exemption for >12 points.
Limit + 30% immediate ban of one year plus compulsory retest.
Driving while disqualified. Vehicle you’re driving seized and sold.

There are lots of laws I don’t agree with but we don’t have the option of ignoring them.

They’re safety cameras.

If by flashing other drivers, you’re making them slow down, then you’re helping the polis do their job. Is it better that everybody drives through at or under the speed limit or a few drive through at above the limit and get caught?

Yeah, right. Cos having a ‘near miss’ like this won’t change behaviour at all, 3 points and a fine might. I get that argument with a fixed camera but the coppers will be gone in an hour and nothing will have changed apart from the few that were so unobservant that they still got done.

The cameras are there to make people slow down. The information on where they’ll be is available on the web. They’re not there to “catch” you. If I flash someone to warn them, I’m really just saying “Did you forget to check the speed camera locations on the web? Oh you did? Well, there’s one up ahead. You’d better slow down.” Which is less dangerous? Letting someone speed through and get caught or get everybody to slow down?

Again, read the op. It was a police radar trap, not a van or a fixed camera. I’m all for putting cameras in obvious locations where speed is an issue to get them to slow down, I’m also all for putting traps like this out to catch people who are either stupid, unobservant or feel it doesn’t apply to them.

Again, read the op. It was a police radar trap, not a van or a fixed camera.

So, in your opinion, what difference does that make ?

NO I DIDN’T!! I know why they speed, ignorance, lack of concentration, stupidity, sometimes even because the road / conditions are conducive to it, etc.

I asked why when motorists are speeding on a bit of road that doesn’t support it, other motorists go out of their way to stop them being caught for it. You wouldn’t condone shoplifting, even more make efforts to warn the shoplifter there a store detective about to give them a better chance of getting away with it, so why is it ‘the done thing’ on roads?

Read the OP again.

You know what, you’re absolutely right and I apologise. I didn’t read the OP properly. My fault. My only slight defence is that your opening line was “Does anyone actually think speeding is good?”.

Again, read the op. It was a police radar trap, not a van or a fixed camera.

Whichever it is, by telling everybody to slow down, you’re making everybody safer.