The motorways were designed in the 60’s and 70’s.

What even the ones they built last year?

And the motorways had NO speed limit on them till 1966 so if anything the ones designed back then should actually be easier to drive faster on!

So you’ve just argued against your point then?

Significantly increasing the speed limit would mean increasing the length of every slip road, the radius/camber of every bend, the distance between signs and their respective targets.

Unless your definition of “significantly” involves adding a couple of zeros to the end, I’m going to disagree there. Cars in the 60s/70s (when the motorway speed limits were conceived) were considered quick if they came in anywhere under 20s for the 0-60 sprint, and the sliproads will have been designed with that in mind. Nowadays your average commuter diesel will be edging towards single figures for the same. You can get up to speed within the distance, whatever you drive. The sliproads wouldn’t need altering at all.
Regarding the radius and camber of bends… Advances in suspension and chassis technology make this a moot point. I think it’s safe to say that a car that couldn’t cope with any motorway bend in the country at 80mph probably shouldn’t be on the road. EDIT – at least on *that* road. 50cc scooters aren’t allowed on motorways, why should a wheezy old Model T be?

I’ll give you the bit about 56mph limit on lorries though. That is a very good point indeed.

So you’ve just argued against your point then?

Erm.. no because I’m pretty sure that quite a few major A road and motorways have been designed and built since 1966. And many more have been heavily modified, sections rebuilt, bypasses put in, junctions added etc.

*happened to me on the M40 at the weekend.

What were all twelve of you doing stuck out in the third lane when the second lane was clear?

Oh dear.

I’ll break the speed limits every journey, always have, however there’s a time and a place.

I’ve never attempted to justify it, I do it because it’s fun. I’ve been collared twice in 20 years, zero car accidents and four on a bike (single vehicle and all within 1st couple of years riding). Speed played a factor in two, but main cause was inexperience in all four.

And WTF? about speeding ‘unintentionally’, how do you manage that unless you aren’t paying attention to what you’re doing? if you can’t keep any eye on your speed what else are you missing?

And WTF? about speeding ‘unintentionally’, how do you manage that unless you aren’t paying attention to what you’re doing? if you can’t keep any eye on your speed what else are you missing?

You bend down to light your pipe and while doing so apply a little too much pressure to the accelerator thus unintentionally taking you to 30.05mph (30 limit) as soon as said pipe is lit you take note of this and decrease speed immediately, that or hand yourself in at the police station….

What were all twelve of you doing stuck out in the third lane when the second lane was clear?

Nice try, but i was in the inside lane at the time.

You can get up to speed within the distance, whatever you drive. The sliproads wouldn’t need altering at all.

I can think of a few junctions where you have to floor it to get an “average commuter diesel” up to traffic speed by end of the slip.

Likewise quite a few A-roads have side roads joining as a T-junction where you get no slip at all and just have to floor it when there is a gap.

I think it’s safe to say that a car that couldn’t cope with any motorway bend in the country at 80mph probably shouldn’t be on the road.

At 80, yeah, but that’s not an increase is it? Most motorways will be moving faster than that at the moment.

If you increased the limit, say to 90mph, then realistically you’d need to make sure that every bend could be taken at 110mph plus.

binners – Member – Quote
I’ve not been keeping up to speed with this thread*, but after a quick skim read, it seems to come to the conclusion that all people who drive slowly are cretins? Does that just about cover it?

Unless they are going through a 20mph zone at 20mph.

Nice try, but i was in the inside lane at the time.

Cheerfully withdrawn. (-:

At 80, yeah, but that’s not an increase is it?

You provide points to support an argument against an increase in the motorway speed limit. The speed limit on a motorway is 70mph. 80mph is therefore an increase.

If you increased the limit, say to 90mph, then realistically you’d need to make sure that every bend could be taken at 110mph plus.

Nope. I don’t think so. I seriously don’t think people would drive any faster at all if the limit was higher. I wouldn’t. I just believe people would be able to relax a tad more as they’d be less likely to be caught.
I reckon we should up our limits to match Europe. No reason not to.

deadlydarcy – Member – Quote

Its not like it is real life and it matters though, is it?

It clearly matters to you so much that you’re calling druidh a cretin* for disagreeing with you.

*even if you are right. [/quote]It is would be a sad day when a respected member of the STW forum who is renowned for incisive comments and well-rounded views has a pop at you.

Just as well it was only DD

🙁

(I even added a smiley)

You’re a big (hearted!!!) man – I know you can take it 🙂

If you increased the limit, say to 90mph, then realistically you’d need to make sure that every bend could be taken at 110mph plus.

Or just put warning / limit signs on the ones you can’t, which is exactly what we do currently.

They’re not warning signs. They’re the equivalent of “Bronze Award” in game achievements. 🙂

You provide points to support an argument against an increase in the motorway speed limit. The speed limit on a motorway is 70mph. 80mph is therefore an increase.

It’s just being realistic. Whatever the limit is set to people will exceed it, because for whatever reasons they consider themselves or their cars better than average.

If you’re saying increase the limit to 80mph but then rigorously enforce it to get 100% compliance then yeah, sure, that would work. But that would be a considerable decrease in actual traffic speed on many motorways!

If you’re saying increase the limit to 80mph but then rigorously enforce it to get 100% compliance then yeah, sure, that would work. But that would be a considerable decrease in actual traffic speed on many motorways!

Don’t tell scotroutes that, he will be out on the motorway taking down the number plates of these maniacs….

Or just put warning / limit signs on the ones you can’t, which is exactly what we do currently.

How many people pay attention to those “slow” signs on motorways?

This is a slip road for the M90 near Dunfermline.

As you can see it is fairly tight. What isn’t apparent is you are also heading downhill which puts you off-camber as you make the turn. There are big “Reduce Speed Now” and “Max Speed 40” advisory signs before it.

In my experience it is not uncommon to see folk trying to take it at 70+, usually indicated by the skid marks and paint flakes on the barrier.

Driving at 100mph on the M40 at 2am in the morning with no other cards around is not unsafe.

So you can see that there are no other cars. What about someone crossing the road? Illegal, perhaps. But that doesn’t make it safe for you to flatten them and carry on with your journey.

Would you travel at 100mph on the A1 at 2am (which is barely any different to the M1 in places, or I dare say the M40), where someone may be legally cycling, lit up by a set of lights £4.99 from ASDA?

I got caught speeding entering a 30 limit by a school on a Sunday afternoon. Cursed myself at the time, because I’d normally be doing 20-25mph on a weekday. Then cursed them for putting a mobile van there on a Sunday. But I was surprised to learn at the subsequent Speed Awareness course that as many kids are killed outside schools on weekends as there are on weekdays.

That ‘fact’ might not even be true. I dunno. It’s what they told us. But the problem is, and what this thread highlights as well, is that everyone has different definitions of what is safe. We all see things in different ways. And almost 20 years after passing my driving test I’m still learning things about driving all the time, and I cringe at some of the stuff I’ve done in the past. The upper limit is there to protect us from our own stupidity, and even simple lack of knowledge, which applies to us all. I think part of being a good driver, is accepting that there are probably variables that you haven’t even thought about. So I think it pays to stick to the limits. Unless you’re travelling serious distances, it makes barely any difference to the time getting there anyway.

crankrider – I had a little think about this when I was out – riding my bike!!! If I have your argument correct, then anyone in front of you and NOT breaking the speed limit is a dawdler. Anyone “up your bumper” when you are driving within the speed limit is an idiot. The logical conclusion to this is that you alone are the definitive expert in what is the most appropriate speed for each situation. This leaves me with a bit of a problem. The only way I can ever hope to get it right is to have you drive ahead of me on every journey I undertake (not that sort of undertake, obviously). What are your rates?

crankrider – I had a little think about this when I was out – riding my bike!!! If I have your argument correct, then anyone in front of you and NOT breaking the speed limit is a dawdler. Anyone “up your bumper” when you are driving within the speed limit is an idiot. The logical conclusion to this is that you alone are the definitive expert in what is the most appropriate speed for each situation. This leaves me with a bit of a problem. The only way I can ever hope to get it right is to have you drive ahead of me on every journey I undertake (not that sort of undertake, obviously). What are your rates?

I am not sure you can keep up with a car on your bike, can you?

crankrider – Member

You bend down to light your pipe and while doing so apply a little too much pressure to the accelerator thus unintentionally taking you to 30.05mph (30 limit) as soon as said pipe is lit you take note of this and decrease speed immediately, that or hand yourself in at the police station….

Dangerous game, nearly set my beard on fire last time I had a toot whilst riding 😀

What about someone crossing the road? Illegal, perhaps. But that doesn’t make it safe for you to flatten them and carry on with your journey.

Why does this keep getting trotted out as an argument against speed? If some idiot pedestrian is going to leap out in front of you on the motorway, you’re going to kill them whether you’re doing 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, etc… If you follow your argument’s logic through to its conclusion, we’ll be driving at a blanket 4mph everywhere. Better yet: ban cars. After all, there’s no telling when a pregnant-with-twins mother is going run across the M6 with her pram and 3 toddlers in tow at 3:26 am on a schoolnight, is there? Imagine having all 7 lives on your conscience. Better safe than sorry.

It’s the same sort of nonsense, far-end-of-a-fart HSE policy we have at work. Yes, don’t do idiotically unsafe things; that should be obvious. But accidents will happen and you can’t legislate against terminal stupidity. For instance, a chap here split his finger open in the inside hinged edge of a door. Like between the door and the frame. How he didn’t lose it, I don’t know, but no amount of hour-long “safer door operation” presentations is going to stop idiots doing idiotic things. Same goes for your (and my) mystery retard wandering onto the motorway at 4 in the morning. The speed isn’t the issue. Folk bumbling through life oblivious to their own safety and their surroundings is.

BTW, I’m not saying the issue of speed/speeding shouldn’t be discussed. I’m just saying that some arguments don’t hold up too well as a crutch for your particular point of view.

you’re going to kill them whether you’re doing 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, etc…

If you’re going 50, 60, or 70, you have more time to see them, they have more time to see you, and thus it’s less likely anyone is going to get hurt.

My point is, That it is only your perception of what is safe, as in this case it’s your perception that you have a clear, empty road. And that is not necessarily the case.

The speed isn’t the issue. Folk bumbling through life oblivious to their own safety and their surroundings is.

I do agree. But speed magnifies the consequences of being an idiot. And we’re all idiots sometimes (even the 80% of drivers who claim to be above average ability).

Why does this keep getting trotted out as an argument against speed? If some idiot pedestrian is going to leap out in front of you on the motorway, you’re going to kill them whether you’re doing 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, etc..

Okay. Swap pedestrian for say.. an escaped cow?

http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/travel/10851805.Cow_shuts_motorway/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/pictured-cow-chaos-beast-runs-2895455

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-21259473

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwZHgAFjGqQ&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

😯

All interesting photos/vids, but the point remains that had the car been travelling faster it would have already passed the bit of the road upon which the amorous couple decided to introduce a bit of spice to their sex life and not had an accident.

You can’t argue against higher speeds using freak incidents as evidence, because by their very nature they’ll happen regardless of the speed involved.

had the car been travelling faster it would have already passed the bit of the road upon which the amorous couple decided to introduce a bit of spice to their sex life

That is a very silly argument. 😀

If all the cars had been going faster then yes, that car would have made it past*, and it would have been a different car that hit the cows. And the higher speed crash would probably have resulted in the cow coming through the windscreen and killing the occupants.

No part of that incident would be improved by it happening 40mph faster!

(Edit :* or would have hit the car on the wrong side of the road at 4 seconds in!)

If all the cars had been going faster then yes, that car would have made it past, and it would have been a different car that hit the cows. And the higher speed crash would probably have resulted in the cow coming through the windscreen and killing the occupants.

Not silly at all. Simple maths. How many cars are there? And why does their speed matter? And anyway, if there is a car travelling behind the car that now dodges the cows, it has a lot longer to perceive the hazard and take appropriate actions. How have you arrived at the conclusion that there is another car behind that is a) speeding, and b) will definitely hit the cow?

*Edit – but… but… the car on the “wrong” side of the road was a good 100 ft past the point of entrance (ahem). How could that car possibly have hit the cows, given that it was travelling away from the cows and was already past them? The only way that could have happened would be if it had been travelling slower. Never mind. I get it now, but it’s still a daft argument. The car would have to be travelling at a very specific speed for a very specific number of minutes to arrive at the point in the road where the other car swerved out at that exact moment. And you’re assuming that the swerving car would ignore the fact that there’s now a car occupying the bit of road he wants to swerve into and does so regardless rather than slowing down until it’s safe to swerve.

Question:

Is it better to have an accident at below the speed limit or NOT have an accident above the speed limit?

Question:

Is it better to have an accident at below the speed limit or NOT have an accident above the speed limit?

Yes.

Correct!
🙂

PeterPoddy – Member
Question:
Is it better to have an accident at below the speed limit or NOT have an accident above the speed limit?

It’s better not to have the accident by driving alertly at an appropriate speed and under the posted limit.

And better still to avoid it completely on your motorbike. 🙂

So anyway. I’ve just taken the car for an MOT. Got talking to the chap about simple general maintenance, something I’m keen on, tyre pressures, oil, water etc and getting the car generally looked after.
He points to a 55 reg Vauxhall Meriva in the corner, which, he says has only done 55,000 miles.
And it’s never been serviced in its life.
The woman owner was driving down the motorway when the oil pressure light came on (As it does when you’re running on a mugful of sludge I suppose) which she ignored. So then it seized and chucked a conrod through the block. I can’t imagine that was particularly safe…..

Call me insane if you will, but THAT attitude is EXACTLY what we need to get over first I think.
Then bring in compulsory retesting.

Call me insane if you will, but THAT attitude is EXACTLY what we need to get over first I think.

Would you rather she was under or over the speed limit when her car starts exploding into bits?

Would you rather she was under or over the speed limit when her car starts exploding into bits?

Under, I would have already overtaken her by then and saved myself the hassle of the pleb being in my way 😆

The speed limits have just been changed around here

The main road now has a 40 sign just where the school sign is, and the side road has derestricted signs at roughly the same place, and of course the school entrance is on the side road!