In pitch black someone walking infront is bad. Car beams are shit in their reach

I don’t know why the kid was there and that’s really not the point.

It’s entirely the point. Can you give us some references to the incident you’re referring to?

Tell that to the family of the young lad that died on a dual carriageway at that sort of time after being hit by a car on new years day morning.

You just don’t know what might be on the road. Extra thinking and stopping time will always help.
See, that’s the kind of flawed logic that the speed-kills-in-all-circumstances groups like to use. What was the kid doing on a dual carriageway at that time? What speed was the person who hit him doing?
A bit of simple mathematics will prove that had that person been doing an extra 5-10mph, they would have already passed the point where the kid ended up in the road by the time he ended up there. Ergo, speed in excess of the posted limit would have saved the kid’s life.
I’m not suggesting that’s a sensible argument for speeding, just that the reasoning behind saying a slower speed would have prevented his death can be applied to prove that a higher speed would have too. In fact, it could be argued that it would have been better all round had the driver been travelling faster, as the driver would never have even known about the kid in the road, having passed the location of the accident a number of seconds/minutes beforehand. Travelling slower, and the driver may well have found themselves bearing down upon a sleeping person straddling lanes 1 & 2* at 60+mph and panicked. What’s the safer situation there?

*I have no idea what the actual circumstances were; I’m just illustrating a point.

Or he already had a near miss and wandered off line again? Who knows.

Speeding is only ever justified if you’re the one doing it.

Cougar – Moderator
It’s entirely the point. Can you give us some references to the incident you’re referring to?

Sorry, I really should have put ‘that’s really not my point’ rather than ‘the’ point. I’m sure you have a different viewpoint, and that’s your prerogative.

Drivers will use pretty much any defence to justify their wrong doings on the road – see The Flying Ox’s quite ridiculous post.

Forget why the kid was there or what speed the car was doing – I was just illustrating that many people have the belief that they know what will be on the roads, and that belief is simply incorrect.

Drivers will use pretty much any defence to justify their wrong doings on the road – see The Flying Ox’s quite ridiculous post.

And people will use any old irrelevant example to illustrate why all speeding is bad.

Like some random half story about a kid wandering about an a dual carriageway for example.

It works both ways.

You can’t criticise someone else for using “ridiculous” examples to illustrate a point, immediately after using a completely irrelevant story to illustrate your own.

Besides,

It’s quite easy to trot out pithy little emotive tales to back up the oversimplified “speed kills” lie-to-children, but if you’re a pedestrian playing Frogger on a dual carriageway then it’s not going to make a fig of difference to your chances whether you’re hit by a vehicle doing 70 or one doing 80.

Not that I’m saying this justifies speeding, just that in this theoretical example you could replace “driving 10mph over the speed limit” with “driving at the NSL” without changing the story one iota.

Speedings OK,
I know when it’s dangerous or not; my car can easily do 60 mph on most 30 limit areas no problem.

It’s a bit like drink driving sometime I drive so smashed I can hardly walk, it’s not a problem I’m still a good driver.
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That’s what you lot sound like to me.

Yes, but to be fair, that’s because you appear to possess no sense of perspective.

Don’t worry though. It does seem to be a very common problem on here? Has anybody mentioned hitler yet? I feel this thread is due a comparison with the holocaust. A glaring oversight so far

IanW – Member

Speedings OK,
I know when it’s dangerous or not; my car can easily do 60 mph on most 30 limit areas no problem.

It’s a bit like drink driving sometime I drive so smashed I can hardly walk, it’s not a problem I’m still a good driver.
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That’s what you lot sound like to me.

“I’m not listening to a word anyone says, because it’s easier to just imagine an alternative conversation in which everyone but me is a moron” is what this sounds like to me.

Yes, but to be fair, that’s because you appear to possess no sense of perspective.

And it has to be said, with no sense of perspective, it is probably better to rigidly stick to the speed limits.

Very hard to just for yourself in that situation.

Drivers will use pretty much any defence to justify their wrong doings on the road – see The Flying Ox’s quite ridiculous post.

I’m confused as to where you stand on the whole speeding thing now. I quite clearly say that the example I used is not sensible, and you say I’m being ridiculous.

So… you’re for speeding, especially when silly but also technically correct arguments are posed to support it? I find that a highly irresponsible viewpoint to hold.

“I’m not listening to a word anyone says, because it’s easier to just imagine an alternative conversation in which everyone but me is a moron” is what this sounds like to me.

Unless someone’s come up with a reason not posted in the dozen previous threads on this subject the assumption your all morons is reasonable.

I’m not one to pick up on grammar / spelling mistakes as a rule as it’s a bit of a cheap shot; but when you’re making a blanket statement that everyone bar yourself is a moron you really should pay attention to making sure your own house is in order.

The Flying Ox

I’m confused as to where you stand on the whole speeding thing now.

I have two viewpoints on speeding. When I’m commuting to work on my bike I’m very much against it. When I’m behind the wheel myself I’ll pick and choose which limits I adhere to.

I quite clearly say that the example I used is not sensible, and you say I’m being ridiculous.

It’s the internet- surely you don’t expect me to read the whole thing?!

The problem as I see it is the car has eaten our public thoroughfares and made islands out of housing blocks. Kids used to play in the street, now parents don’t like them walking anywhere.

Speed on the motorway is one thing, but on country roads?

Maybe vehicles need a GPS speedo. Large flashing light on dash if you exceed speed limit, message to Police if you do so by more than 10mph followed by automatic fine and points.

Maybe if the NHS offered free penis extensions, there wouldn’t be such a problem. 🙂

epicyclo – Member

The problem as I see it is the car has eaten our public thoroughfares and made islands out of housing blocks. Kids used to play in the street, now parents don’t like them walking anywhere.

I’m not convinced. I grew up here, since then the speed limits have all dropped, there’s not any more cars on the back roads than there used to be… But we used to play in the street, now I never see that. I could choose one of many tabloid reasons- if I’d had a modern games console I’d have played it a lot! And o’course lots of people are scared of zombie saville etc. I don’t think you can blame the car for that.

Speed on the motorway is one thing, but on country roads?

Maybe vehicles need a GPS speedo. Large flashing light on dash if you exceed speed limit, message to Police if you do so by more than 10mph followed by automatic fine and points.

Maybe if the NHS offered free penis extensions, there wouldn’t be such a problem

Please tell me you are a woman?

Have people failed to see that you can still ‘speed’ without going over the limit. e.g 60mph twisty country lane

I enjoy driving on country lanes, i do not thrash my car but will drive in a ‘spirited’ manner when the situation allows it, 99% of the time it is BELOW the speed limit though, i will NOT risk the safety of my OH who is usually with me….

I drive a fast car, it has brilliant brakes 4 wheel drive, great suspension and is in top mechainical order – Not the same as nearly rolling over as you thrash your people carrier round a corner with horrendous brakes and eco tyres…

Answer me this – if i am going at 55mph on a nsl road and i have an accident that is my fault, is it because i am an ‘idiot speeding driver with a small penis’ or would this only apply if i was going over 60mph?

I love cycling, but i also have a love for cars – as do many bike riders, just look at the cars pro DH riders have – Brendan fairclough has a RS4 one of the dj riders a mitsubishi evo, josh bryceland has a Nissan Skyline…

You can enjoy driving and not be a total d@ck – and that includes occasionally going over the speed limit.

The cul de sac where I grew up was empty all day and had maybe 3 cars parked at night. Now it’s full all day. When any residents leave a space, a commuter fills it up. Statistics show that car ownership has increased significantly in the past 40 years and they’re not all being left parked in garages or driveways.

I used to enjoy driving fast on the roads for fun, then I started doing track days and immediately lost all interest in driving fast on public highways, I just didn’t see the point any more.

Is there any other part of the law that is so regularly and publicly flouted?

Is there any other part of the law that is so regularly and publicly flouted?

Drug taking, under-age drinking, under-age sex, benefit fraud, tax fraud.

They ALL have a fairly profound effect on the individual / society though, driving home at 65 in a 60 wont make sweet f-all difference to anyone 99.999999% of the time.

Cool! All we need now is for the government to start, on receipt of your first 3 points, sending us al on a track day instead of a speed awareness course

Personally I thought they’d done a similar kind of thing when they built the M6 Toll. You pay a nominal fee, then you get to bounce your car off the rev limiter in top 😀

Personally I thought they’d done a similar kind of thing when they built the M6 Toll. You pay a nominal fee, then you get to bounce your car off the rev limiter in top

haha – only been on there once and that was exactly the impression i got too, speed limits need not apply!

What if you have a puncture whilst driving your amazing car in your spirited manner?

Drug taking: nowhere near.
Under-age drinking: probably. Impact on others?
Under-age sex: nowhere near.
Benefit fraud: miniscule
Tax fraud: not much more than the above

And publicly flouted?

What if you have a puncture whilst driving your amazing car in your spirited manner?

It is not an ‘amazing’ car – it is a performance car well maintained, unlike most of the general public who consider an mot and service every 2 years good enough (I know the owner of an mot / repair garage – the cars he sees on a daily basis would make you cringe)

I also said ‘spirited’ driving and NOT over the speed limit – so not speeding at all…

Do you have a driving licence hammy? I have had a puncture once on the m6 and once on a country lane, you can feel something with the car is wrong, so you pull over, you don’t explode!!

scotroutes
Is there any other part of the law that is so regularly and publicly flouted?

Is there any other part of the law that makes the common man a “criminal” due to its obsolescence?

The speed limit is an entirely arbitary, and historical number, that has not been modified to keep pace with modern life and technology.

I would suggest it is the law that is out-of-date when you have a system where probably 85% of people break it on a daily basis without consequence!

(no, i don’t think we should have no speed limits, but i think we need to put the responsibility back on the driver to decide what is an appropriate speed)

Drug taking: nowhere near.
Under-age drinking: probably. Impact on others?
Under-age sex: nowhere near.
Benefit fraud: miniscule
Tax fraud: not much more than the above

You didn’t answer the question about the impact on others though – how has someone going slightly over the speed limit impacted on your life – the above law-breakers all impact on your life, including under age drinking – NHS / Police bills?

hammy7272
What if you have a puncture whilst driving your amazing car in your spirited manner?

What if you do? (and many modern cars now have a tyre pressure warning system as std and/or run with run-flat tyres anyway). Only in the movies do cars tumble and somersault down the road instantly when a tyre blows. In reality, assuming the driver does not make excessive control inputs, a modern car responds to a tyre failure in a very benign manner even at extremely high speed.

And publicly flouted?

Illegal downloads

What if you do? (and many modern cars now have a tyre pressure warning system as std and/or run with run-flat tyres anyway). Only in the movies do cars tumble and somersault down the road instantly when a tyre blows. In reality, assuming the driver does not make excessive control inputs, a modern car responds to a tyre failure in a very benign manner even at extremely high speed

Not only that – how many of you check you tyre pressure / tread depth weekly? When I walk past cars at the super-market so many of them are low / bald.

Illegal downloads

Possibly the most accepted form of breaking the law going I would say.

Put simply because the speed limits are there to generate revenue and have nothing to do with road safety. Near me a road that has been national speed limit for the last 30 years with no problems suddenly became a 40. There were no accidents, no changes to the road or on the land either side of it. What did happen was the so called ‘safety partnership’ tuned up and no doubt made a killing out of drivers for a few weeks and then pushed off never to be seen again.

When this happens repeatedly, which is has in my part of the world, then all respect for the point of speed limits goes out of the window.

There should be a law against making up statistics when posting on Internet forums.

What if you do? (and many modern cars now have a tyre pressure warning system as std and/or run with run-flat tyres anyway). Only in the movies do cars tumble and somersault down the road instantly when a tyre blows. In reality, assuming the driver does not make excessive control inputs, a modern car responds to a tyre failure in a very benign manner even at extremely high speed.

Point is, driving in a so called “spirited” manner whilst feeling protected in a “good” car will increase risk of an accident.

Point is, driving in a so called “spirited” manner whilst feeling protected in a “good” car will increase risk of an accident.

I don’t think it will…it’s safer. The yoofs thrashing their tarted up shopping trolleys are far more dangerous because they’re not designed to be driven in spirited fashion. Add in poor tyres etc and that’s a real recipe for disaster

I wonder how many of the saints in here regularly check tyres etc beyond the week before an MOT.

They were going to make it illegal to publish illegal statistics Bravisimo, but only in 38% of cases

So does driving a well maintained and well built quality car in a spirited manor in a NSL country lane reduce or increase the chance of there being either.-
A group of yoots doing a D of E adventure
B group of roadies out for a bimble
C A large cow
D A deep section of flood water

round the next corner that you enter at 10 -15mph too fast to stop in time ?

Modern well built cars with good NVH dynamics make it very easy to waft along at 60 in a warm quiet cabin. Drive down the same road in a 1981 Mini 1275gt and it will feel like you are going much faster.

Still too many above average drivers living the dream of the open road.
Do agree about trackdays though , learn to drive really at the limits and speeding on public roads seems tame by comparison.

So does driving a well maintained and well built quality car in a spirited manor in a NSL country lane reduce or increase the chance of there being either.-
A group of yoots doing a D of E adventure
B group of roadies out for a bimble
C A large cow
D A deep section of flood water

round the next corner that you enter at 10 -15mph too fast to stop in time ?

Again, you are making the assumption that car A will stop as well as car B etc – It takes much longer to stop in a poorly maintained car with bad tyres than a well maintained car with good ones. So yes, it will make a difference.

Yet again I will drive this idea home – what if you are NOT speeding, so you are under the 60mph limit?

I am not a dangerous driver, I do not drive in an aggressive way, I don’t race other people, I just sometimes like to drive at a speed some may consider too fast.

There are many many people that drive much faster than me in places I would not dream of: My OH’s parents village for instance, I followed her sister through the village and she left me for dead doing 45 in a 30 (oap’s galore here crossing the road etc in a trance) – she has had 2 accidents yet will scream murder if my OH goes over 75 on the motorway or dares to overtake a lorry or slow driver on a nsl dual carriageway even when perfectly safe to do so.

Are you lot the people that do 45 on an A road with good visibility then stick the high beam on or put your foot down if someone decides to overtake – that’s not dangerous at all, is it?

All of this boils down to the reality – Speed does not kill in itself, the situation is what kills. If you are a pleb doing 20mph daydreaming and you knock somebody down then 20mph was too much in that situation.