I read here and elsewhere how playful (easy wheelie, bunny hop) the Signal titanium is. I never saw a side by side comparison between the steel and titanium versions, though.

Does anyone know from experience whether the steel version is as ‘playful’ as the titanium version or if the steel one is playful at all? I may get my hands on a steel Signal, that’s why.

I like the looks of steel, but if titanium (or another aluminum frame) offer a more ‘playful’ ride, I might look there.

It’s the same geo so I should imagine it rides pretty much the same, steel is a great material for a bike like that.

I’ve never noticed a bike behave significantly differently with or without a full large waterbottle. And that’s about the same difference in weight as between those frames.

Pre cen the ride difference between ti and steel was obvious to me

Thanks for your help. Could you elaborate on the differences a little bit, especially playfulness? Sorry to bother. And what is pre cen, pre production?

CEN regulations, what are they?

Think it’s the same geo – but reviews suggested the steel one is actually better. Unless I’m mixing it up with the Ribble 725 and it’s titanium version. One of them said the titanium was too flexy for the aggro geometry and steel was a little stiffer which made it ride better 🤷‍♂️

@ EIShalimo, Thanx, never heard of it.

CEN is a standard. It’s made bikes more robust and in some case less flexible on the alter of structural integrity.

I’ve got the ti. I would have thought geometry and size rather than material would make the most difference to how playful it is. I sized up for long reach and wheelbase. It’s very fast and capable but I’m not much of skills man so can’t say much about its airborne ability. But it does feel lively and agile.

Loving my Ti Signal it handles some knadge 🙂 I picked up a Steel Ti in store and it felt heavy, my main concern would be what forks you are fitting!

@cynic-al
‘Pre cen the ride difference between ti and steel was obvious to me’

Thanks for your help. Could you elaborate on the differences a little bit, especially playfulness? Sorry to bother.

@postierich

“Loving my Ti Signal it handles some knadge 🙂 I picked up a Steel Ti in store and it felt heavy, my main concern would be what forks you are fitting!”

Thanx for your reply. That’s my concern, that the steel version is heavier to the extent that it kills part of the described playfulness / crispness of the ti. Now I am too heavy myself, so not sure to what extent I should worry about bike weight 🙂

I suppose that with steel ti, you mean steel Signal BTW.

Why are you concerned about the fork in a Signal?

@alwinvrm

I’m going to assume it’s about the quality of the fork. The weight saving and nicer ride of the Ti might be rendered moot if the Ti one has a heavy poor performing fork and the Steel one had a better fork.

Just for balance on weight I picked up a Marino frame this year and it’s steel / probably quite overbuilt and as a result it’s heavy (3.1kg frame with axle and seat clamp). Had hoped it would be a little lighter.

Built up with decent quality bits (Pike Ultimate, Codes, GX Eagle with carbon cranks, carbon bars, light ish stem, 180mm Oneup dropper, light wheels – XM421’s with Dt competitions on Erase Components hubs, Maxxis DHF / Forekaster) I haven’t noticed it feels heavy. It pops in and out of corners / manuals easily / climbs decently etc. Weighed it this week and it was bang on 30lbs 🤦‍♂️ Was hoping it was going to come out between 28-29lbs – but regardless it rides really alive and whippet because of the geometry and reasonable rolling with the wheels / tyres.

I don’t think you have to worry about weight, as’s been said up the page it’s heavier but not gamechangingly…

Thing is, “playful” can mean loads of different things. Like, I had a Ragley Mmmbop (stiff alu) and replaced it with a Ti (exact same geometry, titanium- fairly stiff for a ti frame but still miles miles softer than the Bop).

And the thing is, the Mmmbop was good, very capable, but to me it wasn’t playful at all. But the Ti was an absolute laugh, it always had me hopping off stuff, battering through rocks, just wanting to do that one more run or whatever. I guess you might say it inspired me to be playful, rather than the bike itself doing all the work? But anyway, despite identical geo, same parts, similar weight it was really pretty different.

Then again, I’ve had 2 steel Cotic Souls and a ti Soda, again all the same geo and with those it was the Souls that were more playful.

Sorry, that’s not helpful! I guess the big thing is, you just can’t really know, you’ve probably got to just make the best guess you can

@Northwind

“… Sorry, that’s not helpful! I guess the big thing is, you just can’t really know, you’ve probably got to just make the best guess you can. ”

Thanks, The Signal steel I have in mind weighs 14kg which is 30 lbs + 400 grams. You sum up why I ask the question. It is impossible to say what a certain geometry feels like in steel or titanium without trying. Steel might feel good or aluminum might be better.

On the other hand if I want as playful as possible I should probably take a not long and slack aluminum 27.5 , but I like the idea (or dream) of a playful do it all steel 29 er.

I think you’d notice the weight difference if it were in the wheels, or in the fork, but probably not in the frame. Steel and Ti both are quite springy in the right tube and thicknesses – but Ti has the edge and is that bit lighter. But in this case I’m not convinced it’ll be a game changer.

Contrary to our expectations the geometry of the ti and the steel is different. The steel has un ‘updated’ geo and is a little longer.

This makes me even more curious about the perceived playfulness of the steel one.

Singletrackworld.com has a first impressions article about the Signal steel. Not being a member, I could only read a few lines, but there the differences in geo were mentioned.

It’s £1.99 a month to join up and well worth it for the reviews and features. The forum and the advice herein is just the icing on the cake.

On the other hand if I want as playful as possible I should probably take a not long and
slack aluminum 27.5

Yep, if playful is the priority that is what I would be doing. I really don’t like 29″ wheels and feel they remove any feeling of playfulness.

Steel is real, but ti is..
Er…um
Bugger, can’t find anything that rhymes 🙁

I would really suggest you just ride the TI model 1st. After riding the steel 2nd you will buy the TI.
Weight will be your main hate but also the TI is so comfortable.

I had a steel hardtail (not a sonder) and upgraded to the same frame in Ti.

Here is what I found:
Lifting onto roof rack. A bit easier.

Cleaning the frame was easier as it didn’t seem to show the muck as easily.

Looks. It looked cool.

That’s about it.

Steel is real, but ti is..
Er…um
Bugger, can’t find anything that rhymes 🙁

fly.

I’m very much enjoying my Ti Signal.

Mine is 29lbs, with no carbon, hunt trail wides, 2.4 Wild Enduros, 1×10, Helm Air forks. Sometimes I’ll ride without a tool/tube pouch on the saddle rails, sometimes with a bottle or without. Can’t say I’ve ever enjoyed a ride more or less because of the weight of those things.

What would make much more difference to the zinginess is swapping the wild enduros for something lighter and faster rolling. But, as my trails dry out, they also get looser, so the Michelins will be staying on unless/until I have some long rides planned that I don’t want to do on another bike.

The ti looks good, gets some nice comments about it looking purposeful and “right”. But it’s hardtail, and they do that. It’s a breeze to clean, I’ve scratched the Ti itch, and it’s got a 10 year warranty. I have a vague interest in how the Steel one might ride, identically built up but, see comments above about weight. I reckon if the steel one had been out when I’d bought my ti, I’d probably have gone for the steel one.

Edit: especially at 449 v 1250 for the frame. I picked mine up in a 15% off sale when retail was 1000.

There appears to be an error in the geometry section on the signal st page on Alpkit website. It shows diagram of a table with reach of 457.5 on the large and then beneath that a larger table has it at 465.
See here
And geometrygeeks have taken the longer number and list that so everyone is confused…
The ti version lists the reach as 457.5 on both places. So I think that is correct. All the other numbers are identical so the longer reach isn’t possible is it?
I’ve never seen a steel one being ridden but my pal has a ti one and it’s a lovely bike.

Edit-there are 2 different reach figures for all sizes in that web page. Maybe someone from alpkit will clarify- but I don’t see how you can make reach longer, leave angles the same and not increase wheelbase…

Mistakes get made. You can’t assume one number’s wrong just because the alternative is for more numbers to be wrong.

I’d send an email to Sonder/alpkit for Neil. I pointed out an error in the geo chart and he appreciated the note, clarified to me and got the info changed.

That’s a very good point. Maybe the wheelbase is longer and they’ve just used the small chart for the ti frame by mistake too

OP, IIRC Sonder do weekend demo/hire with the hire price off the eventual bike purchase if you make one.

Nothing beats trying it out. Is the steel really real? Or is the Ti that much more fly? Only you can decide.

Thanx everybody for the help !!!!

The titanium Sonder Signal is by now 1400 euros frame only, so I gladly settled for steel. Very nice geometry, feels like it has smaller wheels than 29 and a natural comfortable fit for me. Maybe one day titanium, we ‘ll see.

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Was looking at the Ti myself. No less times on the large though. Could be a long wait!

Needs flouro yellow grips and pedals!

Also – bin bag on seat post? 😳

@burko73

The bin bag (actually nylon fabric tube) is to keep the dropper seat post clean. If you regularly ride in mud/rain your dropper post in a steel frame will quickly sit in wet rusty muddy goo, not good; remember it is not stainless 🙂

This is a great if not elegant solution.

“If you regularly ride in mud/rain your dropper post in a steel frame will quickly sit in wet rusty muddy goo, not good”

It really won’t.

How is the Bike fit wise? Can only pre order the TI in medium. Large sold out. But think I need a large. Any other similar bikes out there 3k max?

How is the Bike fit wise? Can only pre order the TI in medium. Large sold out. But think I need a large. Any other similar bikes out there 3k max?

How tall are you?

@jayx2a
I am 5 10.2 (178.5 cm) and a medium is a good fit keeping reach in normal levels but still able to ride with the upper body low without any weight on the hands.

@chiefgrooveguru
The mud and rain in my region are apparently different because the inside of a steel seat tube turns into a rusty mess within a week and the mud and sand that enter the tube make it hard to remove the dropper because it is kept in place by ‘sandpaste’. The rear wheel propels anything and everything just into the little space on the top of the seat tube. Google alu seatpost stuck in steel frame.

@alwinvrm

That’s interesting. Having never ridden a Ti bike and buying some what blind is a risk but I think it’s the ideal bike for me. The GX version is within budget.

Reach seems less than my 2018 fuel but other factors come in to it!

@clink 5ft 10 1/2 ish I think! I’m always at the top of medium and bottom of large size charts!

@jayx2a

I bought an XC bike based on size charts and ended up with an L bike with a long reach and punishing standover, being on the very top of medium and within the bottom of large. I changed the stem, bars, etc. To get a bearable ride. For XC it sort of works, but I decided that for the Signal I wanted a more ‘in control’ position rather than ‘hanging on’. I use a 40 mm stem on the Signal. Of course tastes differ. Most important for me is being aware of the reach and eff top tube for pedaling and then go from there to get a comfortable bracket to bar distance.