Every summer my neighbours politely complain about the mature tree in our garden which over shadows their gardens.

A few weeks ago (after all the leaves had dropped) I heavily trimmed one of our trees as I realised it was beginning to overshadow a neighbour’s garden during the summer. Be a nice neighbour.

I moved to Linlithgow. Faint church bell ringing on the hour is actually quite nice!

@yourguitarhero – surely the hourly gongs are from the clock on the burgh hall not the church?

We’d just moved to a village location, some 200 yards from a church. Cue Stepson One (aged fifteen at the time) moaning that the church bell ringers woke him. I replied that he of all people was on shaky ground condemning anyone for spending their Sunday morning tugging on the end of a bell.

I don’t know the venue in question, but across the country there have been and will be issues arising from the Government grating permitted development rights for the conversion of offices to flats. Until they brought in the Agent of Change principal, there was nothing that could be done to stop the conversions.

Music venues and Nightclubs which had operated for years without causing a problem to their neighbors, because their neighbors were not in the building when they were open, suddenly found themselves surrounded by people living in adjoining buildings complaining about the noise.

Councils are required by law to serve an abatement notice if there is a nuisance, that someone has moved to the nuisance has not been a defense against it for the last 150 years or so. All this leaves a great big mess that for once actually leaves me feeling sorry for the Councils (mostly but some are just ****).

Is this like buying a guesthouse under the flightpath for an RAF base and getting compensation? (Almost certainly more to it than that, I’m sure)

Mallory Park has had to reinvent itself as a triathlon centre since it stopped being a motor circuit. Hope it manages to survive

Apparently someone complained to the campsite in Southwold that the nearby light house was illuminating their tent at 15 second intervals throughout the night. I really, really hope that this is true.

Is that a serious post? Are people really so out of touch with the issues of homelessness that you think the main reason people are sleeping on the streets is because there are not enough buildings? And that new build city centre apartments are going to have any impact on it?

Possibly just pointing out the irony of people sleeping in doorways of blocks of brand new flats.

If you chat to them, most are pretty dysfunctional individuals and active or ex heroin addicts (eg on methadone). They’re never going to be able to live anywhere other than some form of sheltered accomodation, so without the intervention of charities / LA etc then the street is pretty much the only place they have. The whole thing is very sad.

Apparently someone complained to the campsite in Southwold that the nearby light house was illuminating their tent at 15 second intervals throughout the night. I really, really hope that this is true.

I stayed in a beachfront villa (shack) in a beautiful hotel right on the beach and surrounded by coconut palms. Looking on Tripadvisor later, someone had given a 1* review, saying that they were kept awake by the noise of the waves.

Bit weird isn’t it, that they get Arts Council funding, are “recognised as a place of cultural significance and also an Expanded Additional Restrictions Grant for Cultural and Entertainment value from Manchester City Council.” and then Manchester City Council have served Noise Abatement notices – one several years ago and now this one. Are we getting the full story? Surely the council have to be asked why and justify their actions, rather than raising money via the petition?

Are people really so out of touch with the issues of homelessness that you think the main reason people are sleeping on the streets is because there are not enough buildings?

No, HTH.

Two sides to every story.

A local music venue was shut down. Their protest message stated the time they’d been open, no trouble, the measures they’d taken and never had trouble with the police. Thing was I knew the place well, junior used to play there. The real issue wasn’t the noise from the venue, it was the anti-social, violent, drunk/stoned, hanging about harrassing women misogynists, and noisy clients. And a lot of that was new, it followed the evolution in society. That and the club attracted enough people for bars that people went to before the gig thrive. Then the students adopted it and thursday night was billed as students’ night.

Happily for the local residents, the laws have changed and the local police have been given noise meters. What was previously subjective became objective with cases the owner forgot to mention in his blurb. It was shut down.

The customers moved to out of town venues in industrial zones, that part of the town center is now livable again, afterall that’s what much of the property started out as, homes.

So I like live music, I occassionally play live and loud enough to need -20db ear plugs on stage and it’s great doing it where there is no-one trying to sleep and where the customers can be aresholes without frightening a nurse going home from the night shift. People often live in these places near music venues because they can’t afford to live elsewhere, give the tennants a nice quiet house in the suburbs and they’d jump at it.

Our town center is now pedestrianised and quiet after 11pm (when the no night noise kicks in). It’s ace for all the people who live there and vibrant in the day.

Apparently someone complained to the campsite in Southwold that the nearby light house was illuminating their tent at 15 second intervals throughout the night. I really, really hope that this is true.

Valid complaint.

It’s supposed to flash once every 10 seconds. 😉

@poly – that makes a lot of sense! I thought it was a bit weird they were doing church bells counting the hours in the middle of the night.

Guess I hadn’t thought it through properly

@joshvegas – I’d love to know which of the regulars at the Halt that was – used to go there A LOT. Loved it. WTF is with the abomination that’s in it’s place? Went there once. Never again.

As for noise complaints, I remember in the run up to the RAF Leuchars airshow, one of the yank pilots went supersonic near our village.

God damn that is the loudest thing I’ve ever heard

I vaguely remember that boom!

Sillyoldman… To be honest I don’t know how true it was but it was a blonde woman and she was ALWAYs there. All adds to the romance of the place…

Was it WEST that took it over and gutted it then shut down pretty soon after? Business change hands but ripping out the interior was unforgivable.

Daily I have to deal with people who moved to a woodland area moaning about trees

We moved to a new house / estate 2 years ago. We carefully selected the house based on available sunlight at various times of day.

Down the road, folk started asking for the long-established mature tress right behind their fence to be cut down because they weren’t getting any light.

Sure they’re happy with their kitchen, though.

There’s a thread running about people moving next to a school and complaining that it gets busy at drop off and pick up time….. 🤣

Live about 150m from a primary school. I could easily complain of the entitled parents blocking the roads, engines idling, parking on the pavement, speeding etc. Nothing to do with the school itself. Seldom see the kids as funnily enough not many of them park near my house as 150m appears to far to walk for many when there is space on the zigzags…

Trees grow. What starts out as a good idea with some ornamental planes or maples turns into someelses nightmare when the poeple who planted them are dead.

Light is an issue, especially when we’re supposed to be making our houses carbon neutral. To do that you need sunlight for heating and electricity.

People can be as anti-social with their trees as anything else. Hate your neighbour? Let the vegetation grow to deprive them of light. Trees aren’t sacred, like anything else they need to be managed.

Thos elong established trees perhaps need to be replaaced with new ones in a more suitable location. Our ancestors weren’t perfect and sometimes planted them in daft places.

I’ve stood in the road in front of machines to stop the local council ripping out hundreds of fruit tress (at the request of the gas company) without consultaion of residents, but some trees just need to go for a variety of reasons. Some of the fruit trees need to go, some can be moved and others can stay.

As for th eone star on trip advisor for noisy waves, that has to be someone having fun. The lighthouse, perhaps people in tents could be given a pitch not lit by th elighthouse. Sure there are people who compalin over daft things, but many are justified and easily sorted.

To all those saying the complainant has a point… the Night and Day Cafe is a stalwart of city centre life in Manchester. Its on Oldham Street running off from Piccadilly Gardens. The whole damn street is busy and noisy cos its in the city centre of one of the busiest cities in the UK. Its a vital stepping stone venue for bands to play. Anyone moving into the area and then complaining about one of that areas most important aspects is an utter ****.

But hey, **** culture eh?

Wot Blackflag said – not only are there loads of other shops, bars etc it’s also one of the main bus corridors through the city centre. Plus the fact that venues have made loads of reasonable adjustments over the years… there are no words for the throbber who made that complaint.

They have had thirty years to sort this out, they know how much noise they make, they know they are surrounded by flats and have been since before they opened.

Have you actually read what the issue is about? It’s the same in Bristol with The Fleece, venue has been operating for over thirty years, surrounded by offices and long-term empty premises, developer takes on empty office block three or four years ago, converts it into swanky apartments, then complains about noise from the venue.

If the developers are doing their job properly, and putting decent insulation and glazing into the building, then there should be no problem. It’s right in the centre of a busy city, for Chris’sakes! They Have NOT been surrounded by flats for thirty years, that’s the whole fricking point!
And breathe.

Thos elong established trees perhaps need to be replaaced with new ones in a more suitable location. Our ancestors weren’t perfect and sometimes planted them in daft places.

They’re long established trees that frequently have new housing put up around them to satisfy the ongoing demands of developers to build new houses. The trees are there when people buy the houses, I have zero sympathy for anyone who sees a house, with all the existing things surrounding it, like trees, pubs, churches, race tracks, etc, buys it, moves in, then starts whining about noise, etc.
It happened with Castle Combe race circuit, which was established on an old, decommissioned airfield in the 1950’s, and there were never any issues, in fact it was a blessing for the local economy, local hotels and B&B’s made a lot of money from it, as did pubs, restaurants etc.

Then rich townies discovered the delights of the south Cotswolds and started buying up all the cottages for weekend getaways, or sometimes to actually live in, then they started to complain about the race circuit, all the tourists, etc.

They’ve never succeeded in getting the circuit shut down, thankfully, the owners just built a big earth bank all the way round, which gives spectators an even better view.

But hey, **** culture eh?

Or alternatively, accept that the demographics of the area has changed and evolved over time, and what was once OK isn’t any longer, and in the interests of being neighbourly, do something about it? There’s more than likely a compromise to be reached.  Maybe?

Something I can relate to I live near an army barracks and a shooting club new people move in down the road in the “posh house” and promply complain about the shooting club for clay pigeon shooting on a Sunday morning. Lots of big wigs from the base shoot at the club and found out. Next Sunday troops on the parade ground and firing exercises all day.
No one complained after that Sunday.
Shortly after the local farmer refused access to the “posh house ” as it’s driveway crossed his yard and they left the gates open and the cows ran off.

It’s the same in Bristol with The Fleece, venue has been operating for over thirty years,

I used to to go there as a student, late 80s. You’re right, it was in what felt like a deserted part of town back then. However, the world changes and cities change – is there any real reason, other than nostalgia, that places like the Fleece MUST operate from that location? Would it not make more sense to sell up, make some money, and move to a more suitable location? More like it was BITD?

Our local music venues have changed regularly over the years I’ve been going to them. New ones open, old ones shut. There’s never been a lack of smaller places to watch music around here.

Sounds like the “Mully” boys are pining for their wee village and the noisy planes that took off o’er their heids
What about the fumes while the jet choke was still out think of all that pollution
Mully boys sounds like a Glasgow housing scheme gang whereas in Balmullo the worst crime would have been taking the tops off the daffodils before cocoa then bed time

They Have NOT been surrounded by flats for thirty years, that’s the whole fricking point!

Surely the whole point is THEY ARE now?

If their petition was “we’ve done X y z to ease the change in our surroundings and we have engaged in how we can rub along nicely with our new neighbours but the council won’t listen” then they might have a point.

If I lived in a house in the middle of nowhere and played the drums all day and night with the windows open and somebody built a house 100m away and asked me to not drum at 3am it’s very much my task to sort it out not tell the to **** off because I was here first.

Small venues are fantastic, but they aren’t sacred.

However, the world changes and cities change – is there any real reason, other than nostalgia, that places like the Fleece MUST operate from that location? Would it not make more sense to sell up, make some money, and move to a more suitable location? More like it was BITD?

It’s not nostalgia, it’s a city centre surrounded by business premises, why the **** should they be forced to move, when there are very few suitable sites available that are easy to get to? It wouldn’t be The Fleece, it gets it’s name from the fact it was a wool warehouse, it’s historically important as a building, and to reiterate, it’s a sodding city centre with all that entails, traffic, people around until the early hours, etc.

The Fleece finishes at around 11pm, most people have gone before 11.20 or so, I don’t think it operates late-night discos any more, if the former office block directly opposite has decent double/triple glazing, then there shouldn’t be any issues.

It wouldn’t be like it was ‘BITD’! It’s still like it was when I started going there when it was still a pub, the Fleece & Firkin, if it moved, then what makes it special would disappear.

Surely the whole point is THEY ARE now?

So? It’s the responsibility of the developers, who are making vast amounts of money, to make sure the revamped buildings are fit for the new inhabitants, by making sure they are up to standard regarding insulation, and soundproofing by putting in decent glazing.

Sounds like the “Mully” boys are pining for their wee village and the noisy planes that took off o’er their heids

God no it’s a boring bungalow hole 😂

* Technically I would be a lucklawhill boy. You probably envy my dad’s shed.

and soundproofing by putting in decent glazing.

As a gig goer you’ll know the problem is the bass. Even a 4 x 10 is enough to make a building vibrate, it goes through the structure and into the structure of neighbouring buildings too. As I approached our house I knew when junior had his bass cranked up, the external wooden shutters were vibrating in time – that’s with tripple glazing.

I lived in a town center flat for 10 years. You can live with the ambiant noise but pounding bass does your head in.

Small venues are fantastic, but they aren’t sacred.

Some really are. IMHO. Night and Day is one of them.

This is like people who buy a house with a lovely right of way going though their land, and then try to get it redirected to run around their property in a ditch between two six foot fences only just wide enough apart to walk between. I mean… on paper it’s a reasonable accommodation to their needs, but in reality it’s destroying what makes the place great for everyone else.

accept that the demographics of the area has changed

Yeah your right, Manchester City Centre is now a quiet rural village full of OAPs and young families FFS! You ever been to Piccadilly / Northern Quarter? Clearly not. Next you will be saying they should turn off all the lights in Tokyo at 10.30pm so everyone can get a good nights sleep.

The rules are clear:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints#noise-from-industrial-trade-or-business-premises-special-rules

More than 10db above ambiant in any dwelling and the venue is breaking the rules.

is this any worse than those who buy a house opposite a school then moan about the parking for 2 hours every weekday?

More than 10db above ambient in any dwelling and the venue is breaking the rules.

Genuine question – does that apply when the venue has been there for decades and the surrounding buildings have had a change of use from (eg) industrial to residential?

I mean, if a new build estate was put up across the road from a railway goods yard, surely it’d be unreasonable to complain about the train noise…? The complaint should more properly be directed at the developers for building in that location or failing to build to decent sound insulation standards?

Small venues are fantastic, but they aren’t sacred.

Some really are. IMHO. Night and Day is one of them.

Without Night and Day we may not have Elbow. Someone shut the place quickly before they do it again. 😀

Why should it matter? Isn’t that a bit like saying the dye works should be able to keep discharging into the river, they’ve been doing it for over a century.

Also, saying the buildings around should be made soundproof to cope doesn’t wash either, they should be able to use their outside space like gardens and balconies without disturbance.

Genuine question – does that apply when the venue has been there for decades and the surrounding buildings have had a change of use from (eg) industrial to residential?

My understanding is that it does apply, so planners put a condition on the new-builds, ie that they must have no opening windows facing the established venue and that the facing wall must be sound insulated. Which the developer agrees to, then subsequently appeals against or simply forgets about because it’s unlikely they’ll be called up on it until far too late.

Why should it matter?

The slow inexorable death of culture.

they should be able to use their outside space like gardens and balconies without disturbance.

Really? In a city centre? Everyone has to be quiet so as not to disturb them? Entitled much?

OR they could have chosen to live somewhere quiet and not tried to bend everyone else’s life around their own self centred world view.

not tried bend everyone else’s life around their own self centred world view.

Are you talking about the residents or the venue?