So shouldering another rider off his bike is fine in road racing then?

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  • So shouldering another rider off his bike is fine in road racing then?
  • glupton1976
    Member

    You’re missing the bit where the referee said that it was not Cavendish’s fault.

    Premier Icon johnhe
    Subscriber

    That’s what I’m astounded at. Cav clearly veered across into the other rider. It seemed so absolutely, blatantly, undeniably obvious to me that I’m genuinely wondering what I’m getting wrong here.

    crikey
    Member

    It’s a racing incident; sometimes happens.

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Subscriber

    I think you are failing to take account of the fact that they are doing 40mph in a highly tactical situation and they are only inches away from each other in the first place: Accidents happen. It’s professional road racing & not commuting up your local high street.

    ….though he did say if Cav had won he would have been relegated, which muddied the waters somewhat.

    As a road-biking layman

    Road racing is nails, the UCI only banned Boudica-style axle blades last year, and if you dont ride fast enough you get driven into a bard wire fence.

    david millar being punished for not using his big ring properly

    Hoogerland punished for failing time-cut

    nicko74
    Member

    It’s a bit… odd – he does veer across the road, and as disturbingly, he leans into the impact, bracing himself. T’other guy veered across the road somewhat, but was blindsided by Cav – he’s not bracing himself.

    And Cavendish’s interview rather smacked of someone who knew he’d been naughty, but was hoping to brazen it out. Maybe he didn’t expect the rider to go down so easily

    crikey
    Member

    Maybe because Cav could see the impact coming and Veelers couldn’t..
    I’d brace myself too if I was going to hit someone, and I’d prefer that they came down rather than me.

    Junkyard
    Member

    he does veer across the road, and as disturbingly, he leans into the impact, bracing himself. T’other guy veered across the road somewhat, but was blindsided by Cav – he’s not bracing himself.

    I think you have conclusively proven that when two folk collide the one who can see it happening will brace themselves where as the one who cannot will not.

    Well done

    Did I see it wrong?

    Yes – though it can be spun either way

    Is this accepted behaviour?

    Loaded question – what accepted behaviour?

    What am I missing?

    A basic comprehension of linesand deviations from them

    I honestly don’t get it.

    I would imagine on the internet someone has tried to explain it to a novice somewhere but I cannot be arsed

    Premier Icon stever
    Subscriber

    He lost his lead out man, tucked in behind the Veelers and Kittel. Once Veelers has done his job he should get out of the way. What actually happens is he turns around, sees Cav and lets himself drift that way to block him. Cavendish gives what he gets. Racing.

    Sui
    Member

    ah, you see Stever has explained it well enough now – Veelers was blocking** Cav then showed him a lesson..

    **I sstill don’t understand but will assume its fair game

    Junkyard
    Member

    if he does not move off the white line they Cav does not hit him

    when he veers cav sees it knows they will hit and leans in and scuttles him – i doubt he was trying to do much beyond stay on the bike tbh
    Had he not done this [lean in] he would have either gone down or been out the sprint

    samuri
    Member

    It’s professional road racing & not commuting up your local high street.

    You’re not a commuter are you?
    Commuting is WAY more aggressive than professional road racing. A shoulder barge like that would be a bit flirty during a commute. 😉

    Premier Icon johnhe
    Subscriber

    I couldn’t believe it when I saw the replay of a Sky team rider who was clearly shouldered off his bike and down a steep bank a couple of days ago. Then I saw Cavendish shouldering someone off the bike in a sprint finish. As a road-biking layman, I was astounded that no one was charged with either incident. Both looked absolutely undeniable in the replays I saw on TV.

    Did I see it wrong? Is this accepted behaviour? What am I missing? I honestly don’t get it.

    AS above Cav braced for impact Veelers was oblivious to the impact but not to the line he was taking (to make the following riders route to teh finish less easy).

    The Kennaugh (sp?) one was again a racing incident same idea of non-sighted rider not bracing and so coming off worst but in this case it was a simple bar/elbow clip which set up the incident.

    mattsccm
    Member

    and the point of this thread is?????

    lightman
    Member

    stever – Member

    He lost his lead out man, tucked in behind the Veelers and Kittel. Once Veelers has done his job he should get out of the way. What actually happens is he turns around, sees Cav and lets himself drift that way to block him. Cavendish gives what he gets. Racing.

    What an utter pile of shite, neither one of them did anything deliberately.

    Watch the video, he is pretty buggered after doing his turn, moves a bit left, then slowly moves a bit right. It just unfortunate that he moved into the path cav was taking to get on the wheel in front.

    Once the lead out man has done his job, he either swings well out off the way, or if he cant, he should hold a straight line because he knows sprinters will/could be coming either side of him. Watching where he is relative to the white line, you see can see that he goes one way then drifts the other way.
    As cav demonstrated, you dont want to get in the way of a sprinter coming from behind you, hence the reason you keep going as straight as possible when you have done your turn.

    Try it yourself, go out and give everything you have for 30-60 seconds and then see how straight a line you can hold when you’re finished.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    Well, my armchair commissaire opinion.

    Veelers is a burnt out lead out rider. Should get the Fudge over to the side and out of the way, not drift back through the middle of the bunch. that’s a reckless selfish move and means everyone else has to get round you. Cav gets the red mist in the last km. He’s a sprinter, its all he’s there for, that hand ful of last kms where he can do what they pay him for. Cav gets pushed off line, and corrects – with viger. He did what he needed to do to stay in position with no real consideration for the guy who shoved him, who as a result goes down hard. It seemed to me the distraction of that caused Cav to mis his moment to go for the sprint. He missed the chance of a win, idiot who initiated the scenario went down. Both at fault, a bit. Both lost. All said, its racing.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    What am I missing? I honestly don’t get it.

    You’re missing about 24hrs, this was done to death yesterday. Neither rider was really “responsible”, certainly neither benefitted from it, it’s a racing incident, occasionally these things happen.

    nicko74
    Member

    I think you have conclusively proven that when two folk collide the one who can see it happening will brace themselves where as the one who cannot will not. Well done

    er… OK. How’re those “interview techniques with Mark Cavendish” lessons going??

    Mind you, given your responses, it’s possible you ARE Mark Cavendish, in which case I can see why you’re annoyed. Shouldn’t you be off somewhere getting a massage?!

    Junkyard
    Member

    er… OK. How’re those “interview techniques with Mark Cavendish” lessons going??

    .

    I simply explained that a sighted rider reacts and an unsighted rider does not. I assume you agree cav saw it and the other did not – hence you have no other response but “wit”.

    Mind you, given your responses, it’s possible you ARE Mark Cavendish, in which case I can see why you’re annoyed. Shouldn’t you be off somewhere getting a massage?!

    Attacking me wont make your view any more correct- I will take the lack of an attempt to defend it as you “graciously” conceding the reason as mention by myself and a number of other posters.

    hora
    Member

    This thread needs some urine throwing to correct things

    Dibbs
    Member

    It’s not just road racing, I’ve had it done to me in XC races.

    crikey
    Member

    Hurrah.

    Every year, as regular as binners on prune juice, the armchair DS is spotted, chunnering on about a sport he or she has only ever seen on the telly, suggesting that the people who do this kind of thing for a living, the people who have been doing it for such a long time, the people who get paid lots to do it, would actually benefit from listening to Mr Iknowbetterthanallofyou.

    It warms the very cockles, it does.

    oldgit
    Member

    The old boys were doing that last night at the Milton Keynes Bowl. Even shoulder to shoulder at about 27MPH sometimes you just can’t see everything happening and it can get messy if you cross the wrong path.
    Sort of…I’m tired.

    Premier Icon johnhe
    Subscriber

    I feel at least partially enlightened. It was a genuine question. Thanks to those who tried to explain it. No thanks to the dicks who treated me like a **** for asking for insight.

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