So I had a close miss last night with a cyclist

I shudder when I see those cycle-paths following the outside perimeter of the roundabout, neatly feeding you into pretty much all entrance and exit traffic.

+1. I always use the same lane discipline as I would in the car, take the middle of the lane etc. This does take some cohones and the ability to accerelate to something approaching the speed of the traffic (20+mph) though. Oh and

When Im on a roundabouts whilst cycling, I always assume cars which are waiting to join the roundabout haven’t seen me and I expect them to pull out.

On any roundabout with a fast approach and cars joining as I cross their entry to the roundabout, I’m looking STRAIGHT at them until I’m sure they’ve seen me and they are slowing to give way to me. Taking the lane helps with this and gives you a few feet of ‘escape route’ to your right should someone pull out.

This is why humans should not drive cars. A small mistake could mean someone elses life. The sooner the technology exists for them to be driven for us the better IMHO.

Agree roundabouts are very tricky for a cyclist and that you are better taking them close to the centre rather than the outside.

I wouldn’t have called it an accident, it’d been negligence (light, judgement, observation) on my part that led to the collision.

An accident happens when its no ones fault IMO.

perhaps making the entry to a roundabout a mandatory stop would help?
i agree that approaching too fast severely limits the ability to properly assess the safety.
please note: ‘too fast’ does not necessarily mean ‘speeding’ imo, you can go too fast and still be within the legal speed limit.

A lot of hysterical replies here (The guy on about “can’t wait for robots to drive us” – for real?!).

Shit happens. Can all be solved by everyone just slowing down. The OP. The guy in the car on the roundabout. And yes – sometimes cyclists too.

Everyone needs to just slow the **** down and chill out. Take your time. Life’s short – but it’s not that short.

An accident happens when its no ones fault IMO.

The thing with language is, it doesn’t really work “imo”, you need to share and agree what words mean, otherwise it doesn’t work as a means of communication. If I say the word “beef” but I’m using it to mean what you consider falls under the meaning of the word “pork” then there’s going to be problems.

Thankfully we have dictionaries and suchlike where the generally accepted meanings of words are detailed so that such problems can be avoided. They define the word “accident” to have a particular meaning, and that meaning doesn’t include or imply that no-one is at fault or that it couldn’t be avoided. You have to use a phrase, such as “unforseeable accident” or “unavoidable accident”. You can’t just change the meaning of the word “accident” by using it mean something different then putting “imo”

You’re just right (by the way, I have decided to use the word “right” to mean what the dictionary might tell you is the meaning of the word “wrong”. It’s what the word means now, in my opinion).

plyphon – Member 

Everyone needs to just slow the **** down and chill out. Take your time. Life’s short – but it’s not that short.

My father used to say to me when I first started driving “it’s better to be later than late”. Took me a while to understand what he meant.

Anyway Hora, another lesson learnt from the university of experiences, eh?!

Edlong -I guess my point is that “accident” is an inappropriate word in this context (an argument which I think has some support).

perhaps making the entry to a roundabout a mandatory stop would help?

How could that possibly be enforced? The traffic police in this country now consists entirely of a series of yellow boxes, taking photos of people speeding. They can’t even offer a deterrent to people driving along gabbing away on their phones

I remember once pulling away from a Volvo V70 only for him to slowly pull alongside me at every lights. Couldn’t shake the bugger off. In an urban setting its absolutely pointless driving at an speed IMO- even if you beat a amber light, you’ll get stopped by the next or make a whole 30seconds on your total journey. Pointless.

Its amazing how understanding many people seem to be on this thread in a typical SMIDSY situation. The driver clearly wasn’t paying attention.

Had this been the usual close call cyclists version of events there would be all sorts of death threats/door kicking/mirror removal posts.

Wasn’t the reason RTAs (Road Traffic Accidents) were renamed RTIs (Road Traffic Incidents) something to do with the no-fault=accident thing?

Either way, I doubt very many of the RTIs that happen are deliberate and calcualted so the earlier definition of accident should be sound…

Its amazing how understanding many people seem to be on this thread in a typical SMIDSY situation. The driver clearly wasn’t paying attention.

Not that amazing really, most of us are drivers, most of us can empathise. Unfortunately most of us are also wrong and some even end up on juries that aquit drivers of SMIDSYs that result in KSIs.

Wasn’t the reason RTAs (Road Traffic Accidents) were renamed RTIs (Road Traffic Incidents) something to do with the no-fault=accident thing?

I’d have thought it would have changed to Incident, so that it covers intentional events such as road-rage too.

Ah. Thanks Ian.

Everyone needs to just slow the **** down and chill out.

You mean cycle or walk? Even a car hitting you at 20mph is still going to hurt you somewhat. And what speed is correct, if you miss thing then what you think is too slow may actually be too fast? If you haven’t seen someone doesn’t always mean you will see them if you are moving even slower.

Sorry, that just stinks of “I’m a good driver and everyone drives too quick which is why accidents happen”. And I think the point of this thread is that crashes/accidents happen even if you are a good driver and think you are paying attention. People make mistakes.

And yes, computers driving will be for real – like stopping us from skidding or plowing into the back of a car while on the motorway. Hardly hysterical!

Mind you, about 10 people a day die on the roads. Let not get hysterical, but I do suggest some value should be placed on human life? No?

Yep, a roundabout near me was the closest I’ve been to shuffling off this mortal coil. Completely open roundabout, no other cars, broad daylight, me dressed in high vis top as I watched the guy enter the roundabout at about 40/50mph about 5 feet in front of me. Thankfully the spidersense kicked in a few seconds before and I assumed he hadn’t seen me and slowed down.

At least he saw me out of the side window of the car judging by the look of shock/horror on his face…

Not that amazing really, most of us are drivers, most of us can empathise

I know that, just not normally the case when a cyclist post on here with a near miss story.

Its amazing how understanding many people seem to be on this thread in a typical SMIDSY situation. The driver clearly wasn’t paying attention.

Not that amazing really, most of us are drivers, most of us can empathise.

The same empathy juries can have for drivers that kill or injure others that helps lead to sentences / less serious charges brought that are seen as too lenient to be a deterrent against poor driving. With all due respect to the OP, there’s a need to be consistent; if we want RTI sentencing that protects us we have to accept the boot if it’s on the other foot. And I say that as someone who came scarily close to taking out a motorbike in town a few years ago, different situation but same basic driver fault. It does happen but it’s preventable, or at least the number of mistakes should be lower.

Dark large industrial estate roundabout where the speed limit is 40mpg on dual carriageways, I was driving, looking to my right at the car approaching the roundabout, I decided I had enough space to go (straight over the roundabout).

I didn’t see him at all- my partner did (sat in the back) and said ‘the cyclist’!- in one split second I turned the wheel to aim me over to the immediate left exit- it was VERY VERY close. Cyclist swore etc- I pulled in half a mile up the road and jumped out/waited for him and thoroughly apologised to him. Without the extra-wheel input he’d have been in my front wing (or infront of my offside headlight).

The SCARY thing is- he himself said ‘he had loads of lights etc etc’ and I just didn’t see him. Shook me quite abit as I have upto date prescription glasses, I was well hydrated, alert and not tired.

If I had hit him, in the very least he’d have had life-changing injuries but to be honest I think it’d been terminal. Only two weeks earlier a cyclist was rear-ended mid-roundabout there.

If you are on here fella, please buy a lottery ticket.

This has happened to me whilst driving a small low sports car. Twice, several years apart I pulled out when there was a another car approaching. Both times being close to a collision but “I didn’t see” the other vehicle coming on either occasion.

Then I had the good fortune to read this. RAF Pilot[/url]

It made complete sense to me & changed the way I look for other road users. Have a look & see what you think.

D.

@ binners:
it is, of course, practicably unenforcable.

You mean cycle or walk? Even a car hitting you at 20mph is still going to hurt you somewhat. And what speed is correct, if you miss thing then what you think is too slow may actually be too fast? If you haven’t seen someone doesn’t always mean you will see them if you are moving even slower.

Sorry, that just stinks of “I’m a good driver and everyone drives too quick which is why accidents happen”. And I think the point of this thread is that crashes/accidents happen even if you are a good driver and think you are paying attention. People make mistakes.

And yes, computers driving will be for real – like stopping us from skidding or plowing into the back of a car while on the motorway. Hardly hysterical!

Mind you, about 10 people a day die on the roads. Let not get hysterical, but I do suggest some value should be placed on human life? No?

fundamental issue with road design is the desire to keep the traffic flowing. Roundabouts, in particular big fast complicated ones are simply accidents waiting to happen. Roundabout near me was redesigned a few years ago and a cyclist was killed within days of its opening. Reason, it is crap, the lane design in and out is unquestionably appalling, in fact I would go on record as saying whoever at Gloucestershire County Council who was responsible for the design should be put on trial for manslaughter.

This does not detract from drivers actually having to look, then again if you think about driving tests and making progress, you could argue the whole system places keeping the traffic flowing above the safety of traffic!

The same empathy juries can have for drivers that kill or injure others that helps lead to sentences / less serious charges brought that are seen as too lenient to be a deterrent against poor driving. With all due respect to the OP, there’s a need to be consistent; if we want RTI sentencing that protects us we have to accept the boot if it’s on the other foot. And I say that as someone who came scarily close to taking out a motorbike in town a few years ago, different situation but same basic driver fault. It does happen but it’s preventable, or at least the number of mistakes should be lower.

Thought I would like to this

http://road.cc/content/news/105570-1-10-london-cycling-deaths-result-driver-being-jailed-says-evening-standard

90% of drivers who kill someone walk away!

Were the cyclists lights solid or flashing?

I think the op should be taken out and shot.

Errrm, how close was close?

WHHOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

didn’t realise the Dailymail blockage on links, but fair do’s (a pal was reading it a work, you understand….)

Were the cyclists lights solid or flashing?

Mind you, about 10 people a day die on the roads. Let not get hysterical, but I do suggest some value should be placed on human life? No?

Less than 5 a day actually. 1754 deaths in 2012. The lowest number ever. So while there is plenty scope for dealing better with bad driving and for better road design the roads are safer than they have ever been.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/245754/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-main-results-2012.pdf

but I do suggest some value should be placed on human life? No?

According to my (slightly rusty) memory, the Dept. for Transport economists calculated it as about £1.5million. Interestingly most of this was due to the distress of the victims family and friends, rather than the specific economic value of the remains of the victims life/emergency services costs.

Less than 5 a day actually. 1754 deaths in 2012. The lowest number ever. So while there is plenty scope for dealing better with bad driving and for better road design the roads are safer than they have ever been.

BUT, are roads safer?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-pedestrian-deaths-and-cycle-injuries-soar-7899270.html

Overall deaths may be down, but there are many ways to achieve that, you can make the roads safer or you can remove road users. Is the increase in cycling and the increase in deaths in London a reflection that the reason why deaths have been falling is because vulnerable road users have not been using the roads?

Look at long term trends, car use up, walking and cycling down. deaths of car users down, deaths amongst vulnerable users down, but not so much on a per mile basis.

On the lights- I don’t think they were flashing. He was wearing a orange altura jacket too but even when I was stood at the side of the road waiting it blended in/a grey shape. I’ve seen decent high-beam lights. Even in the corner of your vision you can’t miss them.

Is the increase in cycling and the increase in deaths in London a reflection that the reason why deaths have been falling is because vulnerable road users have not been using the roads?

There isn’t an increase in cycling deaths in London. The 1993-2012 average is around 15 deaths per year. So 2013 was a typical year despite increased numbers of cyclists. The 1993-2013 fatality rate is an overall downward trend albeit with some blips.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/londons_cyclists_road_deaths-29281