SNP & Brexit????

teamhurtmore – Member
Given that people focus on the wrong things when criticising the SNP (not that anything is their fault), what are the headlines today?…

The same headlines we get every day.

It’s either SNP Baaad!

Or SNP Very Baad!

Result? Very few people believe them anymore.

Aye it really is funny epicyclo. Especially as the SNP baaaaaaad stores are usually made up or simply wrong. 2 recent ones spring to mind. Scottish labour claiming half a billion of cuts in the scottish NHS when budgets are rising and also the labour attack on the SNP MPs for claiming excessive expenses and not attending the chamber when actually the SNP mps take much less in expenses and attend more than labour!

The thing is there are huge mistakes out there that they could be attacked on – but these tend to be populist policies so no one attacks them. I know of two NHS issues that have cost lives due to poor policy from the SNP but due to the ignorance of the snps enemies or thir craven inability to go against illinformed public opinion they miss the open goal

fuds, diddies and bampots the lot of them

The recent PISA results are a stick that the SNP are getting beaten with,but TBH;the SNP should have looked at the propoals to introduce CFE that they were going to inherit and said “Nah;yir all richt min.” It is one of those Embra tram ones that they inherited where Labour at sitting on the side going SNP BAD without the slightes sense of irony or self awareness. I may have said what a clustershag CFE is to Mike Russell,ex Ed-Sec at my parents house one New Year… 😳

Result? Very few people believe them anymore.

More fool them. Whitewashing history doesn’t make things go away, unless you subscribe to the irgnorance is bliss school. We know who the main disciple there is.

Leave it to the Glaswegians and they would either deep fry or drink the warheads…

Glasgow has quite a few excellent high technology companies, world-class precision engineering, and space technology experts.

I’m sure we could bodge a simple nuclear missile.

Anyway Scottish budget week this week. So what’s on the cards?

After the failure of raising stamp duty – well done getting less revenue! – whats on the cards for MRT for top earners, and tax thresholds this week?

Her growth advisor seems to be doing a Bojo and going off-script re the warnings against alleged/promised tax plans. Who will win……?

teamhurtmore – Member
More fool them. Whitewashing history doesn’t make things go away…

Well as most Scots know, or at least Highlanders raised traditionally, history as taught isn’t much more accurate than those headlines.

It has been thoroughly rinsed, glossed over or whitewashed, and that’s why the independence movement isn’t going to go away.

As tjagain says, there’s plenty the Red and Blue Tory media could use against the SNP if only they did a bit of digging instead of relying on made up or misrepresented stories.

Given that most of the SNP baaaaaad stories in the press are provably false who is the fool? The sceptic who looks at multiple sources and tries to get to the facts or the person who takes scare stories in the unionist press at face value unquestioningly because they fit their narrative?

Its always interesting to read the same story in the scotsman ( staunchly unionist) the Herald ( sceptical slightly pro independence) and the National ( staunchly pro independence) ( and thats without considering the Wail and the express who simply make up lies)

I have seen the same item reported as a blow for the SNP and a boost for the SNP

Those who rely on WoS

But at least education wasnt glossed over this week epic, and Swinney put his hand up. What about the budget question – will they bottle it on their tax policy or not?

So we have one revenue reducing tax policy – air duty – offset by keeping the threshold for the top rate below the UK. Winners, eh?

When do you think that pre independence will get past 5 regions? Do you think any will make 60% in favour? Given all the non-reported momentum and support, the answer must be now and yes. So why is Nicola so pessimistic?

tjagain – Member
Its always interesting to read the same story in the scotsman ( staunchly unionist) the Herald ( sceptical slightly pro independence) and the National ( staunchly pro independence) ( and thats without considering the Wail and the express who simply make up lies)

I usually get a chance to glance over the newspaper headlines each lunchtime. The Telegraph is as bad as the Mail, all they do is vent their bile about either the SNP or the EU/foreigners. It is so comically overblown I hope that most readers are wise to it, but I’m not sure they are.

A coworker occasionally buys the National. It seems like a depressingly wasted opportunity for the independence movement. The editorial team seemed to have looked at the often vitriolic, tribal, petty and exaggerated anti independence rhetoric in many newspapers and decided that the best way to counter it was to do the same but be pro independence. Plus the covers are frequently cringeworthy. I personally don’t support independence but the cause deserves a better standard bearer than the National.

I agree chris. I suspect the national will not last long and it appears to be simply SNP good in response to SNP bad we get from most other papers Picking the truth as a midway point between it and the scotsman is reasonable as a start point tho

Anyway has anyone yet resolved the Wales, NI problem? Or is the UK now simply England and Scotland?

Who are they? 😉

Wales goes with England. NI have to chose between Scotland and Eire.

IMO the best bet for NI is to give it special status as an independent protectorate guaranteed by both Eire and England.

What about their wishes, or do they not matter – like a referendum result?

tjagain – Member
Wales goes with England. NI have to chose between Scotland and Eire.

IMO the best bet for NI is to give it special status as an independent protectorate guaranteed by both Eire and England.

A solution from the Guardian…

That would solve a lot of issues.

While throwing up a whole heap more. As most of the comments on that article note it is a f**king retarded idea that only the Guardian could genuinely write about with any seriousness.

Has this thread fallen off the front page? Can’t have that – CFH something to stimulate him 😉

So still no comments on tomorrow’s budget – is it unimportant? Come on my left-of-centre Scottish friends, some predictions for the “historic” budget and tax rates in particular. Some assumptions:

1. The SNP has been voted in on a left of centre mandate (no really)
2. They are anti-austerity
3. There is a deficit issue
4. Top tax rates for the filthy rich are below the EU average (anyone mention a “low-tax, low wage economy”?)
5. etc

So, Derek Mackay will address this how?

Will he increase the MRT on the filthy rich to 50p?
How about the rise in the basic rate proposed by the other left-of-centre party? 1p, nothing, more?
And where will he set the filthy rich threshold? In-line with manifesto or more radical?

He has to make sure that he can deliver on Nicola’s promise to local councils for a “fair deal this time around”

Looking forward to something radical – will be a good test case for the rUK. He wont bottle it will he? Reality not rhetoric this time, surely? He has taken a few more months breathing space to get this right after all!

teamhurtmore – Member
So still no comments on tomorrow’s budget – is it unimportant?…

Nothing is as important as independence.

Perhaps – ends and means and all that.

In the meantime, what do you reckon for tomorrow? Important first step, so you can see whether the SNP are what they say they are. We shall see…

You’re the self appointed fact geek Thm why don’t you tell us how many “extra months” Derek Mackay has taken for his budget?

Sep…Oct….Nov….Dec….errr (although we know that we are talking about drafts etc as he wanted more thinking time)

still no problem with delay, much better to get this one right – first impressions and all that!

so what do you reckon on tomorrow?

I am sure THM will tell us everything thats wrong with the budget despite his proven ignorance of Scottish politics, of the actual powers of Holyrood and measure this against his liking for taking right wing economic theory as fact. He will then leaven this with some condescension.

fortunately I won’t see it unless someone quotes him

fortunately I won’t see it unless someone quotes him

Really, you haven’t mentioned that before?

For when someone quotes – we are talking about a left of centre government raising already low tax rates on top earners to fund better services, since antiquated issues such as Laffer Curve effect dont exist. No excuses for simply copying the RW Tories is there?

If this thread is anything to go by, the SNP will be relieved that expectations are non-existent, so they will probably get away with matching the Tories except for thresholds. It must be lovely to have such a pliant electorate!!

nothing worth quoting TJ but you nailed his MO still some folk just cannot change – i include you and me in that FWIW as some of us can do self awareness

I seem to recall that Jesus fella has some strong views on the wealthy
and I seem to recall he had a message about what to do with your enemies and turning the other cheek

he is an example to us all especially the christians amongst us

So still no answers, shame. It would have been interesting to hear some “informed” local knowledge. Never mind…

yes it would and i am sure you would have embraced them and taken them on rather than just smarm and patronise them to within an inch of their lives

STrange how no one takes you on anymore ..probably your towering intellect rather than your tone 😉

although we know that we are talking about drafts etc as he wanted more thinking time

Perhaps he was waiting till the oil price went back to $110 so he could make the numbers balance ?

I dont think so, but here is his chance to differentiate the SNP from the nasty Tories – I hope he takes it, but doubt it!

Any budget of course needs more than a whipped party to get it thru so some searching for consensus will be needed. got to keep the greens onside and hopefully the greens have learn’t from the last minority SNP administration where they ended up sidelining themselves and the tories actually engaged with the SNP and ended up with some input into policy. Such are the politics of PR and minority governments

Labour of course are still incapable of engaging constructively with anyone at Holyrood as they still feel the SNP stole their ball so won’t play with anyone.

The Scottish Greens have set out plans to introduce a new 60p rate of income tax for Scotland’s highest earners.

Meet them half way or side with the Tories and leave it unchanged?

Greens unimpressed today

And Patrick Harvie from the Scottish Greens put forward an amendment saying “the SNP’s manifesto proposals on tax make no significant changes to current income tax rates and thresholds”, saying Holyrood should “support a tax system that will challenge inequalities in wealth and income”.

looks like a stalemate brewing

Easy to differentiate the SNP from the Scottish Conservative Unionist Party Thm. I think it would have been foolish of MacKay to bring forward budget proposals before studying Hammond’s autumn statement.
On an earlier point did you manage to find out how many bankers were jailed yet?

On tax? We shall see…

True – so he took his time sensibly. No need to rush such important decisions

No – have you? Let me know if you have the answer. Cheers

gordimhor

they are both run by women with shortish unpermed hair, not a handbag in sight and have “scottish” in their name. Easy to confuse

The Scottish Greens have set out plans to introduce a new 60p rate of income tax for Scotland’s highest earners.

The SNP said a 50p rate would cost them £30m in lost revenue, 60p would probably push that up some more as more of the waverers/marginals would go

The SNP said a 50p rate would cost them £30m in lost revenue,

How come, that’s not on script? They dont believe in the Laffer Curve surely? A true LW party that is anti-austerity is surely not going to bottle raising what is currently a low MR level of tax on the filthy rich!!

TJ’s weak attempt at sarcasm above ironically highlights an important point. You could imagine Ruth Davison and/or George Osbourne signing this

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00497818.pdf

Oh, and it does use my preferred term for the Laffer curve idea – Taxable Income Elasticity.

So our radical LWers are really not that different from the nasty Tories after all!! Unless Mackay proves us wrong tomorrow.

We shall see…..