Smoking ban and Smokers

There are definitely benefits to be had from discouraging excessive consumption of high fat foods, but I think those benefits would be felt by all of us, regardless of body weight. One thing at a time, though, eh?

CX_Monkey another person curious as too which pub? Trusham or Lower Ashton based?

I just want to suggest to those who think the smoking ban killed pubs to maybe consider lifestyle changes, a decade ago Friday night I’d be in the pub socialising with friends of all ages, now on a friday night I am either riding, climbing or going to the gym/exercising with those friends.

The last decade or more has been like the digital camera for kodak IMO for pubs. Good pubs with good owners who have good relations with customers and adapted are doing well. Rubbish pubs, with bad owners who don’t keep up are being left behind. Oddly I’ve found that whether pubs carry any alcohol free options a strong correlation between good and bad pubs.

I saw some comments about cans at home versus the pint due to price, yes some pints are £6 or £7 now, but you used to be able to get 8 cans for a £5 and now you can barely get 4 unless you want Fosters! I think the price of cans has increased more then the price of pints!

If you just want lager, you regularly see Stella on offer for about £14/£15 for 18 cans.

The price jump has been in the rise of “craft” beer.

I was of the understanding that nicotine was harmless?

Pretty much but not totally I believe. I can’t remember the details but I did look into it some time back and there is some evidence that nicotine has a slightly negative effect on the your immune system but I can’t remember which bit.

Certainly since I stopped all nicotine products, which I was on for many years after giving up (chewing gum/lozenges) I now hardly ever get colds and when I do they are usually extremely mild.

I don’t think nicotine affects your cardiovascular system anymore than the caffeine from a strong cup of coffee would, eg increase your BP. I believe the damage that smoking does to your arteries is mostly from the carbon monoxide which makes cholesterol more likely to stick to your arteries, or sumfink

I was of the understanding that nicotine was harmless? It was just the delivery system that was the problem?

Do you have a source for the harm of nicotine?

It can cause acute inpacts such as raised heart rate, much like coffee. Google may tell you otherwise based on random studies of heavily dosed mice, but From the British heart foundation..

It does not cause acute cardiac events or coronary heart disease, and is not carcinogenic. But nicotine is a problem for people with heart disease. It raises the heart rate, contradicting the goal of most treatments. Tell your GP if you have heart disease and are using nicotine replacement.

And from someone else who probably knows what they are talking about..

https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/addicted-to-nicorette

I think it probably doesn’t do you any favours, but as vices go it’s probably no worse than putting too much sugar in your tea..

I just want to suggest to those who think the smoking ban killed pubs to maybe consider lifestyle changes

Its not the job of you or anyone else, especially not governments, to suggest people change their lifestyles in accordance with your wishes, Kim Jong Un ;)

And going to the pub or going out riding isn’t an either/or situation. All rides end at the pub. Thems the rules. Well.., they’re my rules but I don’t feel the need to tell the rest of society that they need to comply with them

Heres one I did last week. Bike ride? Yip! Pub beer garden? Absolutely! We’re other people smoking? Dunno. Not something I generally notice

Why do you think a government might want to encourage people to adopt healthier lifestyles?

Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc etc

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/

now on a friday night I am either riding, climbing or going to the gym/exercising with those friends.

How lovely. How would you react if someone came along and told you you couldn’t do that any more because it’s bad for you? Would you say ‘I’m very sorry, yes you’re riight, I’ll change my behaviour to what you want me to do’, or would you tell them to f*** off?

Why do you think a government might want to encourage people to adopt healthier lifestyles?

Encourage away. Should that be done through legislation to force people to change their lifestyle by criminalising elements of it? Absolutely not

Why do you think a government might want to encourage people to adopt healthier lifestyles?

Why do you think that those whose health they claim to be concerned about do not want the ban but the people they are apparently not targeting do?

Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc

The clinical features of caffeine intoxication vary but have been reported to include cardiovascular symptoms (hypertension, hypotension, tachycardia, bradycardia, atrioventricular block, supraventricular tachycardia (SVT), ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation, myocardial ischemia, myocardial infarction, and cardiac arrest), gastrointestinal symptoms (nausea, vomiting, severe recurrent vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea), psychological/neurological symptoms (delusions, hallucinations anxiety, agitation, excitation, seizures, headache, cerebral edema, coma), metabolic symptoms (hypokalemia, hyponatremia, hypocalcemia, metabolic acidosis, respiratory alkalosis, hyperglycemia, fever), musculoskeletal symptoms (weakness, rigidity, tremor, rhabdomyolysis), pulmonary symptoms (hyperventilation, respiratory failure), tinnitus, dizziness, diuresis, and death. Renal failure and questionable hepatic injury (i.e., based only upon modest transaminase elevation which is known to occur in cases of rhabdomyolysis) secondary to rhabdomyolysis have also been reported.

Don’t drink coffee ! !

And it’s probably best to avoid smelling it too.

Nicotine is a poison with multiple adverse effe4cts including reduced coronary artery blood flow etc etc

As above, so is coffee..

If the bhf think it’s safe I’ll go with that before your non expert analysis of its harmful effects, which have been based on a quick Google..

Thanks though..

How lovely. How would you react if someone came along and told you you couldn’t do that any more because it’s bad for you? Would you say ‘I’m very sorry, yes you’re riight, I’ll change my behaviour to what you want me to do’, or would you tell them to f*** off?

You’ve missed my point, I was giving my view on why pubs have shut or are shutting which I don’t see linked to the first smoking ban.

For your point, as an adult, you get told you cant do stuff all your life, its how you learn right from wrong, stealing sweets from a cupboard at home, maybe okay, stealing from shops not okay.

To quote Fred Durst… Life is a lesson you learn it when your through…

Why do you think that those whose health they claim to be concerned about do not want the ban but the people they are apparently not targeting do?

Well, you’re the second person who has dodged the question I asked, but I will try and answer your question. I think some smokers don’t want the ban because it will prevent them from indulging a habit that they currently pursue when they are at the pub. Pretty straightforward. I think some non smokers support the ban because they recognise the negative health, social and economic effects of smoking, and think the ban will help to discourage people from smoking, and because they don’t like experiencing cigarette smoke in outside areas of pub premises, and being exposed to some of the negative effects of smoking.

Mr badger – did you read the article?  Nicotine has well documented adverse effects that have been known for a long time

To anyone daft enough to think vaping is safe, trust me, it isn’t.

My missus worked as Molecular Toxicologist for one of if the UK vaping product providers in between real jobs and was quite clear that it has serious issues

Probably less than fags, but still far from harmless..

I think some smokers don’t want the ban because it will prevent them from indulging a habit that they currently pursue when they are at the pub.

Wow. Imagine that? Fancying a fag when you have a pint outdoors without some interfering busybody tutting at you and  thinking there should be actual laws to stop you doing so.

How do you explain the fact that those of us objecting to this draconian nonsense on this thread are all non-smokers?

I think some non smokers support the ban because they recognise the negative health, social and economic effects of smoking, and think the ban will help to discourage people from smoking.

Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do. when the only justification is ‘I don’t like it’.  luckily, for the present at least…

Just to reiterate:

because of the volume of road traffic, combining this toxic air with cigarette smoke greatly exaggerates the health risks of from merely breathing.

Therefore I can understand the govts logic.

but, you need to go with the  Dutch example and legalise cannabis as the ‘accelerated learning’ (remedial) from the weed makes it easier for Joe Public to make small alterations to their behaviour and leave their cars behind…cafe style, without thousands of vehicles grumbling past.

just building a few cycle lanes isn’t enough.

carrot/ stick, etc.

There’s an easy solution to this. Let’s have a referendum on the issue, because they always go well.

But… the votes are weighted, depending on your beer garden usage. The referendum is in 12 months time and everyone gets a scorecard to have stamped on every Occasion they use a beer garden. To make things fair, votes are allocated on each visit depending on location and time of year

So,…

That place we went to in Ambleside after we’d been out walking in June? You remember? The place that did the nice homemade hummus? – 1 vote

The night ride we did at the end of October at Rivi which finished at that nice boozer but we were caked in mud and you wanted to vape, so we sat outside and it was bloody freezing!  – 50 votes

That place we went to in Salford in January where you wanted a fag but the beer garden was two rotting benches in a concrete yard and you got a massive splinter in your arse? It was about -4 and the sleet was coming in horizontally – 100 votes

That seems fair :D

It will help more people to quit by eliminating another situation where they might be encouraged to just smoke out of habit.

If this was the case you would have expected to see an acceleration of the rate of decline when the smoking ban came into effect in 2007, but as can be seen from the graphs below no such acceleration is discernible – if anything the opposite is the case..  One thing that has been successful but which has nothing to do with the government or the non-smoking pressure groups is vaping but they are going to screw that up too now.

Again… Its not yours or anyone else’s job to dictate what people can and can’t do. when the only justification is ‘I don’t like it’. luckily, for the present at least…

Really?  Really?

so no speed limits, no drink drive limits, heroin available in every corner shop?  No need for any equality laws, ettc etc  Fox hunting and bear baiting back in everyday life.  Lets have cock fighting as well

As somone stuggling to stop smoking ( I have stopped and started a few times) the smoking ban was a huge help

So you’re not worrying about it being dangerous you just want to f*** a load of people over because your own fragile sensibilities are offended by the smell of a bit of fag smoke?

Please read what I write before arguing against something which is the opposite of what I said.

What do you do if someone farts in your vicinity? I suppose you’ll be banning that next?

If I was chain-farting in public I’d apologise and try to move away from others before dropping one if possible. Wouldn’t you?

Do you feel that the whole of society should be forced, by threat of prosecution if necessary, to behave as you instruct them?

No but if the democratically elected government pass a law about some aspect of behaviour and it passes both houses and is bought into law then I think it’s fair enough.

As somone stuggling to stop smoking ( I have stopped and started a few times) the smoking ban was a huge help

Eh? Last time I was out with you, you were still smoking. Unlike me :P

As a smoker at the time it made ****all difference to me other than I had to go outdoors 

Really?  Really?

so no speed limits, no drink drive limits, heroin available in every corner shop?  No need for any equality laws, ettc etc  Fox hunting and bear baiting back in everyday life.  Lets have cock fighting as well

Calm down dear. All those things have direct implications for others. Smoking in beer gardens doesn’t. We’re already established there are no health implications, it’s just you and others saying ‘I don’t like it so it should be banned’

I feel the same about rugby. Should I start a campaign to get that banned? I could get really draconian about that. Life imprisonment for wearing a polo shirt with ‘popped’ collars. That type of thing

I feel the same about rugby. Should I start a campaign to get that banned?

Yes please, where do I sign? ;o)

Binners – what harm to others does heroin have?  Bear baiting?

I started smoking again a few years ago.  Stopped again now.  stopped and started a few times.

@tjagain you don’t half talk some rubbish, the smoking ban in Scotland was 2006 it’s now 2024 and you’ve only just stopped smoking. So tell me how it helped?

I stopped several times and restatred again – once for five years around the time of the smoking ban :-)

But you’ve smoked all the many years I’ve known you, you may have tried to stop but only lasted a couple of weeks, so I don’t think you can claim the smoking ban has helped you stop.

Binners – what harm to others does heroin have?  Bear baiting?

Left to me, I’d legalise everything. Want to inject crack cocaine into your eyeballs? Fill your boots.

I’m thinking of buying a pub with a big beer garden, but you’re only allowed in there if you smoke or vape. Non-smokers can get tae ****! And if you turn up in a rugby top you get cast into a big pit where everyone gets to flick their fag butts at you :P

There’s nothing bloody worse than an evangelical born again smoker

The law isn’t here to facilitate your lack of willpower :P

Bikepawl – please do not tell me what I have and haven’t done.  I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s.  I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.

Highly offensive to accuse me of lying because you cannot remember this

There’s nothing bloody worse than an evangelical born again smoker

This is clearly wrong

I used to stop smoking about once an hour for 30 years :D

A mate of mine stopped smoking, the last I heard he was down to 20 “moments of weakness” a day.

(He’s dead now, but that was down to the booze doing for him rather than the fags.)

Oh dear bit of an overreaction, guess the “herbal” cigarettes don’t count then?

  I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s. I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.

So you literally stopped for years and still back to smoking even though you were no longer addicted and were fully aware of the dangers of smoking?

Did you maintain the same level of lecturing people over the evils of smoking throughout that period or did you suspend your lecturing during the periods that you smoked?

  I stopped smoking for 5 years in the mid 2000s. I have stopped for years plus 3 or 4 times and each time went back to it.

That means you’ve never stopped, just paused then started again.