Smoking ban and Smokers

Smoking is one of the few choices in life which can have such a negative impact on other people.  You can sit next to me in a beer garden and have a pint, and there will be no direct health impact on me.  I can choose to consume alcohol.  If someone starts smoking next to me, I have no choice but to breathe and smell passive smoke.

A few weeks ago I was waiting in a bus stop, when a more elderly lady decided to smoke a cigarette.  Again her choice, but it is not my choice to inhale smoke.

Someone could inject next to me, and my health won’t be impacted.

I am a bit perplexed as to why people are allowed to do something so damaging to other people and have the right to do so?

It isn’t about the smokers choice, surely it is about the non-smokers choice of not being contaminated?  Should a non-smoking family have to move tables because someone next to them wants to smoke ?

I guess if you smoke you are against the ban, and if you don’t you are all for it.

You could say the same about diesel cars… at least in a pub/resterant you can sit inside… everyone gets poisoned by car/bus/lorries/trains just by opening the front door.

Might be an idea to first address the increasing number of **** who think it’s acceptable to vape on public transport or in enclosed spaces. The way things are going I’m either going to get stabbed or end up on an assault charge over this. D!ckhead facilitators.

Driving an internal combustion engines vehicle is one of the few choices in life which can have such a negative impact on other people.  You can sit next to me in a beer garden and have a pint, and there will be no direct health impact on me, unless you drink drive.  I can choose to consume alcohol.  If someone starts an internal combustion engines vehicle is next to me, I have no choice but to breathe and smell exhaust fumes.

A few weeks ago I was waiting in a bus stop, when a bus and many vehicles drove past.  Again their choice, but it is not my choice to inhale exhaust fumes.

Someone could inject next to me, and my health won’t be impacted.

I am a bit perplexed as to why people are allowed to do something so damaging to other people and have the right to do so?

It isn’t about the choice, surely it is about the choice of not being contaminated?  Should a family have to move house because someone next to them wants to drive an internal combustion engined vehicle?

I guess if you drive an ICE you are against clean air, and if you don’t you are all for it.

Driving yet more customers away from already struggling pubs is a bad idea, given the risks to health from smoking outdoors are nearasdammit zero. And no, I don’t smoke, do you own a combustion car?

Happy to ban smoking in pub gardens etc  but it doesn’t bother me enough to worry about a total outdoor ban. Not top sure exactly how or where I draw the line.

Plenty of other things are likely to kill me before the occasional passive fag smoke.

Lots of other people’s life choices have a negative affect on other people and I just accept that and suck it up..

Own a car..you are impacting the environment other people live in. I suspect polution in London is equally as dangerous as passive smoking in a pub garden

Ever go on holiday.. see above..

Overweight due to overeating..your diabetes medicine is funded by society’s taxes..that affects us all

Lots more examples.

I should add that I dont smoke.

I always have a wee chuckle when I go to Forth Valley hospital – the whole area is a no smoking zone, but right by the main entrance you see patients with their oxygen tanks sitting on the bench smoking…it amuses my odd sense of humour, but as a non-smoker I’m failing to see why they need to do it. I’m sure like any addiction once you are hooked the levels of self-control dwindle.
It would be great if smokers and vapers were a bit more considerate, but I can say that about myself with what I do…very easy to judge others and not myself.
The more control forced on people the more they will rebel, but smoking/vaping is definitely something I’d happily do an outright ban on (but I would also ensure better support to quit is available as well).

It will have a catastrophic effect on the pub economy. Everyone who sits in the beer garden of my local pub smokes, almost without exception. If they stop going in the summer (which they will) the pub is gone. At the very least pubs should be given the choice of being non-smoking or not. Not many will though. This is nanny state nonsense of the highest order.

Driving an internal combustion engines vehicle is one of the few choices in life which can have such a negative impact on other people.  You can sit next to me in a beer garden and have a pint, and there will be no direct health impact on me, unless you drink drive.  I can choose to consume alcohol.  If someone starts an internal combustion engines vehicle is next to me, I have no choice but to breathe and smell exhaust fumes.

A few weeks ago I was waiting in a bus stop, when a bus and many vehicles drove past.  Again their choice, but it is not my choice to inhale exhaust fumes.

this.  Car drivers impact my life negatively and constantly

Nicotine is an addiction and a very expensive one – and hard to break.  One of the hardest of the addictions

As a lifelong non-smoker, the current arrangement works for me (glad to see the back of indoor smoking).

I don’t like the stench of it, but it’s usually easy to get away from outside.

It will have a catastrophic effect on the pub economy.

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban or the lower drink drive limit in Scotland.  Both of course turned out not to be true in any way.

I am struggling to stop smoking, smokers have less and less places to smoke but I am agnostic on this.  I just do not care enough.

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs. That’s one of the main reasons there are far fewer pubs now than 20 years ago. The ones that survived did so because people could smoke outside. Take that away and it’s game over for the local pub scene.

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs

Source?

I’m torn on this.  Assuming the supposed ‘leak’ is even true.

On the one hand, purely selfishly, I don’t smoke so if it was banned outright tomorrow I wouldn’t care.  I’d be glad even, if I thought for a moment that such a ban was in any way workable.  I love being able to go for a pint and not have to burn my entire wardrobe when I get back home.

On the other hand, pubs exist precisely to partake in activities which wouldn’t otherwise be acceptable.  Drinking, gambling, surely smoking falls into that remit?

On the whole though, I’d have a lot more sympathy if many smokers weren’t inconsiderate arsewipes, endeavoured to sit/stand downwind and learned what an ashtray was for rather than pinging fag ends across the street.

Some publicans and other critics say the smoking ban played a large part in this. Simon Clark, of the smokers’ rights lobby group Forest, says the impact has been “devastating”.
But there are other factors too. There has been a massive decline in the amount of beer people drink, external.

The British Beer and Pub Association cites the rise in the tax applied to drinks – and beer in particular. The beer duty escalator meant that between 2008 and 2013 the duty increased by 42% and this has come at a time when supermarkets have tried to entice shoppers in with discounts on booze.

At the same time as the smoking ban came in, the economic crash was about to start. It had a massive impact on incomes in the UK. Average real-terms pay is still below where it was 10 years ago.

With all these factors happening at the same time, BBPA spokesman Neil Williams says it is “pretty impossible” to unpick exactly what the individual impact of the ban has been.

And of course, many pubs have thrived since the smoking ban, changing to focus more on high-quality food and trying to attract families – including those with young children – who would previously have avoided smoky atmospheres

From BBC

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs. That’s one of the main reasons there are far fewer pubs now than 20 years ago. The ones that survived did so because people could smoke outside. Take that away and it’s game over for the local pub scene.

What’s your evidence for that?

My local is busier than ever.

I am a non-smoker (and lost my mum to lung cancer) but I think this goes a bit too far – yes, stop people from smoking anywhere on hospital premises (apart from a dedicated smoking area well away from entrances). But, in general, I don’t really have too much of a problem with people smoking outside in beer gardens and the such – I am not keen on it, but I can tolerate it (usually).

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs

Source?

There was 9 pubs in the village I live in before the smoking ban was introduced, there are 2 left. Pubs should be able to choose whether they allow smoking in outdoor area’s and the government should be looking at other far more pressing issues than this. For those that are in favour of this would you rather people gathered outside the pub gardens and stood smoking in groups on the pavement outside?

Driving a car does pollute the atmosphere.  However I have never been sitting in a beer garden with a running ICE next to me.  Smoking is a choice and it seems acceptable to force others to inflict your passive smoke on others.    A car is a necessity to get to work.  I would happily have an electric car, but economics prevent it.

Agree vapes is a massive problem. A friend is a teacher and the problems it causes in schools is huge, with kids vaping mid lesson.

It’s never been acceptable to smoke in the vicinity of anyone else, which half self-aware smokers know. Nobody with half a brain sparks up next to a family enjoying their food, or anyone in their vicinity.

A Rule No 1 campaign would have been a better idea, but I can’t think of one of them that’s worked since drink driving.

Edit: I’m not a smoker :)

This is a brilliant thing. Was in a beer garden/ hotel restaurant garden last night and there was one self righteous pipe smoking &£)t in the whole place making everything stink.  I couldn’t actually believe how much impact that person had in an area 25m x 10m. Utterly ruinously stinky. They can all sod off home.

would you rather people gathered outside the pub gardens and stood smoking in groups on the pavement outside?

They want to ban that too.

What’s your evidence for that?

My local is busier than ever.

More than 500 pubs closed in 2023. 3000 in the last 6 years. So your local might be a bit of an outlier, and busier doesn’t necessarily equate to a stable business behind the scenes. There are obviously lots of reasons for pub closures, but this isn’t exactly going to help.

I’m a non-smoker but every pub garden I’ve ever been in has allowed me to sit far enough from any smokers for it not to be an issue. This feels like a step too far for the embattled licensed trade and just plain unnecessary

A car is a necessity to get to work.

I haven’t driven to work in about twenty years.

Possibly the reason beer gardens are mostly used by smokers is because the people I know don’t use them because they are used by smokers

As a no smoker I’ll be glad to see it banned. It’s grim sitting outside with people smoking. Same with people smoking in entrances that people have to walk through.

Not sure if a blanket ban would work though. Surely depends on size of space and number of people?

I was a smoker when the indoor ban came in. Was probably against it initially, then I realized going outside pubs to smoke was actually a really good opportunity to socialise with complete strangers. I quickly seen it as a positive thing.

I’m not a smoker now, so can see both sides. I don’t really see any point in an outdoor ban unless there’s any actual evidence of harm, and I’m not aware of any. The risk from passive smoke in outdoor spaces must be tiny in the vast majority of settings.

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

People find lots of ways to kill themselves, let them crack on outside I say,

Ban open fires and wood burning stoves first

More than 500 pubs closed in 2023. 3000 in the last 6 years.

nothing to do with smoking bans though. A lot to do with the massive increase in the cost of a pint, going out drinking being less fashionable with younger people, and the economy having gone down the shitter.

I think you’ll also find it’s generally non-freehold pubs (which are shit anyway so no loss really) which have shut, generally because whoever owns the building has got a better offer.

I’m a non-smoker but every pub garden I’ve ever been in has allowed me to sit far enough from any smokers for it not to be an issue.

You must not go to many pubs then. Not all have massive gardens – especially micro pubs (the best ones!) which funnily enough tend to have correspondingly micro gardens. Smokers can **** right off from those.

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

of course, I agree with that, but using it as an argument not to do anything about smoking is just whattaboutery.

@zilog6128

Nice selective quoting, neatly omitting

There are obviously lots of reasons for pub closures

I didn’t say they were caused by the previous smoking ban, but a new one isn’t going to help.

You must not go to many pubs then. Not all have massive gardens

Oh, I go to plenty – but if I want to drink outside on a summer’s day, I’ll choose one with a reasonable sized garden. Going to shit pubs isn’t compulsory

I was visiting hospital the other day. On the way out,  a guy sat outside getting fresh air (while smoking in “the we are proud of our clean air zone”) in his wheelchair, with his medication pumping  into his body asked me. Can you help push me over the step to get back inside? So of course I helped in. When I got him in the entrance and turned left he gave me s**t because he has to go to the right. So I sent him off to the right.

You know what. Let them smoke. But if they continue to smoke under NHS treatment or on NHS land. Give them some flowers and a free taxi home.

Nobody with half a brain sparks up next to a family enjoying their food, or anyone in their vicinity.

I see a flaw in your assumptions here.

but if I want to drink outside on a summer’s day, I’ll choose one with a reasonable sized garden.

whereas I actually like beer so choose my pubs by which ones have the best beer selections :) Which is generally the smaller, independent ones – not some brewery owned pub with a massive garden. Life is too short to drink shit beer!

I am a bit perplexed as to why people are allowed to do something so damaging to other people and have the right to do so?

Which bit of ‘freedom of choice’ are you struggling with? There are all manner of things that impact other people that you’re allowed to do (thankfully) without needing permission from the government or all manner of busybodies, who would like to tell everyone what’s best for them

I had the misfortune to listen to this being discussed on Five Live earlier

There was a succession of people saying that smoking should be banned from pub beer gardens. It was patently obvious that none of them ever went near a bloody pub except for once a year when they were on holiday in Cornwall where they’d invariably be that **** that asks the bar staff if they can do them a pot of tea

I packed in smoking nearly ten years ago but I’ll always still take the smokers side over the whiny, sanctimonious bedwetters who won’t be happy until they’ve banned absolutely everything so all our lives can be as miserable and joyless as theirs

Simon Clarke and FOREST are industry shills.

I obviously haven’t read through the whole thread but this really concerns me, more than anything else

Not sure if a blanket ban would work though. Surely depends on size of space and number of people?

I mean, what next a **** duvet and eiderdown moratorium?

If the smoking ban and skyrocketing tobacco prices had a positive impact on people’s health then we should have seen a marked increase in life expectancy over the last 15 or so years.

But we haven’t, in fact life expectancy is declining. The biggest influences on the lowering life expectancy are supposedly loneliness, isolation and poverty.

It wasn’t just the pubs that were affected, it was bingo halls and cafes, the elderly were hit hardest by the ban. The govt may have saved the elderly from the dangers of passive smoking but for many, the only social contact they had was closed off to them, so they stayed at home by themselves and died of loneliness.

Poorer people tend to smoke, so why not make them poorer by massively increasing the price of tobacco. Keep the middle classes happy though, you can get a cheap bottle of good wine for the same price as you could a generation ago. Meanwhile, tobacco has increased in price ten fold.

Of course smoking is thoroughly unpleasant for those who dont smoke, but there are unintended consequences to every action, perhaps the worst being that kids at school are no longer sneaking a flag in the bike sheds, they are vaping cannabis, or what they think is cannabis but is more than likely spice.

Spice the drug that gained traction once David Blunkett up- classified cannabis back in the 2000’s. Spice didn’t even exist before that legislation.

The nanny state wants to make everyone better but it actually makes everyone iller.

As a no smoker I’ll be glad to see it banned. It’s grim sitting outside with people smoking.

If a publican chose to allow smoking on THEIR premises you would be free to take your custom to another establishment that catered to your preference. Non smoking pubs could possibly see an increased customer base purely because of being smoke free but it should be up to the owner to choose, not the government

I’d like to see smoking banned in all public spaces.

As for “whiny, sanctimonious bedwetters”…

https://nafc.org/bhealth-blog/how-smoking-contributes-to-incontinence/

Well if we all shit ourselves on a regular basis, perhaps you’ll have that to take away the smell of smoke

Take the win