Thinking out loud -while considering a rash ebay punt or not!

How does sizing on the Stanton Sherpa work out? And for that matter Solaris…

I’m 187 cm (6 ft 1 or 2) -always in in twilight between L and XL.

Usually I’m on a Large with a high seat post … on full sus 29er.

But today i rode a Giant XL hire bike and it well like a gate and even too big.

Any thoughts appreciated (given I wont get to sit on one soon).

Also can Sherpa or Solaris take a 100 mm fork? or 120 mm? and preference?(thinking about to to do build)

Any input appreciated,,,

I have a 2017 next gen Sherpa…..it came in 17, 19, 0r 21 inch which equated to Medium, Large or x Large. I’m 5’10”, and have the 19″, set up with 780mm bars and a 50mm stem, it fits me well, but wouldn’t want to go bigger. I bought second hand, and asked on the stanton fanboi facebook page to cadge a wee shot on local riders large and a medium first. I’m in West Yorks if you want to sit on it.
They were designed around 120mm fork, 100mm would steepen the HA a tiny bit and lower the front end which could be corrected with some spacers. But personally id stick to 120mm.
Great all rounder, comfy for long days but IME goes down and along better than up. (this could be the burly wheels and tyres, or just reflect my fitness!).

Review of new Sherpa on Hardtail Party

https://youtu.be/JSxoaXAG6mM

I’m 185cm (a sniff under 6’1″)

I had a gen 2 sherpa in 19″ and tried a few cockpit settings before eventually settling on a 60mm stem and with Salsa Sweep bars rather than a straight (a personal thing). Had Fox 34’s up front and tried it in both 100mm & 110mm travel.

In truth I liked it but didn’t love it. For me, I struggled climbing on it. The front was trying to wheelie and so pointing up, I constantly had my chin on the stem. (t’was awsome going down though)

The new gen 3 have been tweeked a little to climb better according to the Stanton pitch.

I wouldn’t want it any smaller and so I’d maybe be looking towards a 21″ XL as you’re a bit taller.

I have had a Next Gen Sherpa, a mk1 and a mk2 SolarisMAX (and a first Gen Solaris for that matter).

1st Gen Solaris I loved by by Christ it had a wandery front end on the steep ups! That was a medium. I got a 19” Sherpa (originally with a 50mm stem/straight pin and as soon as I threw a leg over it I knew it was too short. I changed to 55mm stem and that made all the difference!) with 100mm forks. The SolarisMAX mk1 was bought and built as a (bike)pack mule with 120mm forks and a 60mm stem.

Between the two the Sherpa was more fun but the SolarisMAX was more comfortable, especially on looooong days the saddle.

I then got the LLS version of the SolarisMAX (with 130mm forks and 35mm stem) and that was way better than any of the previous. Way better, both up and down. Totally transformed my riding.

I’ve not tried another Sherpa but I’d check toptube/reach carefully.

Think SolarisMAX is designed around 120-140mm, so wouldn’t recommend 100 forks as it’s below their stated minimum.

I liked the LLS SolarisMAX so much I bought the ti version (put 130mm HELM’s on it). Just about to try 140mm Trace36’s on it as I’ve just got my 150mm HELM II’s for the full sus.

What travel is dependent on what and how you ride I guess. I’d suggest something that can be adjusted personally so you can try different travel and decide which you like best.. 🤷🏼‍♂️

ETA: oh, I’m a couple mm under 6’. On large SodaMAX/SolarisMAX.

Thanks all. Appreciated and seriously helpful. Luckily the Sherpa went on wrong direction price wise – as I’ve got a bit more thinking to do.

I’m 5’11” and on a medium mk1 Solaris. It was OK with a 100mm fork but the current 120mm definitely suits it much better.
Love it by the way, highly recommended

I wouldn’t look at the size, like L, XL, etc. Look at the reach and ETT. The most recent Solarii are big long bikes, the Sherpa’s and older Cotic’s quite a lot shorter.

I’m 5′ 9″ (ish…) 31″ inseam, on a medium MK2 Solaris, fits perfect.

Built it up with 100mm forks and it was good, but then changed to 120mm and it’s way better. Great bike, probably the best I’ve ever had.

Got a hankering to go back to full suss though…..

I can highly recommend a Solaris. I’m 5’11” on a large LLS Solaris Max, with a 35mm stem and 130mm fork. I think if I was much shorter I’d want a medium, but as it is the large fits really well. Can’t comment on other fork lengths as I haven’t tried anything else, but the 130 rides nicely. Goes up hill well and down even better, easily the best hardtail I’ve ever ridden.

You have swayed me to the idea of a Solaris in L. And the early Solaris actually sounds perfect – which I guess will be as difficult to find as snake poop on the horizon … The new ones look awsome but very shiny and with a lot to get used to.

I’m the same height as you and have a Solaris mk2 in XL (soon to be up for sale 🤭). I rode it with a 120mm fork, 50mm stem and in-line seat post which worked well. I found it great for long distance xc rides but a bit ungainly for anything fun and twisty. If I was buying again I’d definitely go Large. The old Stanton Sherpa sizing didn’t seem to work for 6ft1.5 but the more recent sizing looks much better.

I have a 2nd Gen Sherpa which I ran for quite a while with an 80-100mm suspension corrected rigid fork. Tbh it rode fine, definitely didn’t feel weird. Currently have it with a 120mm sus fork and it feels more trail worthy but still fine.

I guess what I’m saying is it’ll probably be ok, it’s not going to become awful plus minus 20mm. Also you need to factor in the axle to crown height and offset.

You have swayed me to the idea of a Solaris in L. And the early Solaris actually sounds perfect – which I guess will be as difficult to find as snake poop on the horizon …

If you can’t locate one I’ve a large mk1 SolarisMAX in the loft.

You mind find this of interest:
https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMAX1#sizing

I had (and sold on this site) the mk2 solaris and was always amazed by that bike. I’m 5’11 and rode the M – wish I’d got the large but it was just about ok. Did absolutely everything on it. Welsh Marathon rides and long distance xc epics, xc racing and smashing it around on more technical stuff. All in plus mode.

Talked myself into a LLS max just before lockdown last year. Thought it would be more of the same, just better.

It’s not. It’s a good bike but doesn’t feel as geared to big days or racing as the mk2. I had to up my fork travel to 140mm too to solve a neck ache issue. It’s perfectly comfy but just doesn’t feel quite as efficient as the old one.

That said – it’s the bike I own that does everything pretty well. I did 3k miles on it last year so it had to be doing something right for me to keep pulling it out of the shed!

I watched HTParty’s Sherpa review last week as thought maybe going back to something like the mk2 – but was put off a little by the reviewer continually falling off and breaking his finger! Despite saying it was the best HT he’d ever ridden!

If it helps, I’ll add my experience:

I have a 19″ Gen2 Sherpa with 120mm fork and 35mm stem. I’m 6’1″ with pretty normal proportions.

At the very, very beginning, I found the front wheel lifting on one particularly steep climb, to the extent that I swapped to a 50mm stem. In hindsight it was just me not being used to the slacker HA. Back to 35mm now and once used to the new geometry, it has never been an issue since. Positioning the seat forwards does make a big difference

I’ve ridden a few longer bikes but to me the Sherpa just feels right in terms of where I put my weight. To me it feels spritely and nimble* (and therefore lots of fun) and, like someone said above, deceptively capable on the downhills. I think a 100mm fork might not help in that regard

*After I sacked off the Plus setup and went back to 29×2.3

I have a 19″ Gen2 Sherpa with 120mm fork and 35mm stem. I’m 6’1″ with pretty normal proportions.

Seriously? Wow, that would be seriously short for me (@1” shorter). I run a 35mm on my large SolarisMAX, but I think that is about 40mm longer (ETT).

In hindsight it was just me not being used to the slacker HA.

Gen 2 is, what 67.5? That’s not exactly what I’d call slack…

Not having a go, genuinely curious.

I can highly recommend a Solaris. I’m 5’11” on a large LLS Solaris Max, with a 35mm stem and 130mm fork. I think if I was much shorter I’d want a medium, but as it is the large fits really well. Can’t comment on other fork lengths as I haven’t tried anything else, but the 130 rides nicely. Goes up hill well and down even better, easily the best hardtail I’ve ever ridden.

Exactly this!

I have a 19″ Gen2 Sherpa with 120mm fork and 35mm stem. I’m 6’1″ with pretty normal proportions.

Seriously? Wow, that would be seriously short for me (@1” shorter). I run a 35mm on my large SolarisMAX, but I think that is about 40mm longer (ETT).

Yep, I’m with @metalheart ,not ganging up on you @cb200 but I’m the same dimms as you and tried a 35mm stem on a 19″ gen2 Sherpa and found it waaaaay too short (like I was almost bolt upright).

Different styles, different smiles I guess.

Gen 2 is, what 67.5? That’s not exactly what I’d call slack…

Yeah I know, it was just slacker than the previous bike, and it took some adjusting.

Seriously? Wow, that would be seriously short for me (@1” shorter). I run a 35mm on my large SolarisMAX, but I think that is about 40mm longer (ETT).

Yep, I’m with  @metalheart ,not ganging up on you  @cb200 but I’m the same dimms as you and tried a 35mm stem on a 19″ gen2 Sherpa and found it waaaaay too short (like I was almost bolt upright).

Different styles, different smiles I guess.

That’s fine 🙂 Re. styles, most of my riding on the Sherpa is on dirt forest DH type stuff, with some peaks and trail riding thrown in when I get the chance. Like I say, I tried a 50mm stem at one point, but really didn’t like it. I’ve also had an extended loan on a much longer (495mm reach) bike and found it more stable, but not as nimble..

@cb200 I find it interesting that the thing that I really hated is what you like.
It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything 🤪
Oh, and everyone is entitled to their opinion (even when they’re wrong… 😂🤣)

Hi!
Really glad I found this thread.
I currently ride a Santa Cruz Chameleon which I rally like but I’d like to go back to riding a steel frame. Had a Cotic Soul back in the day and really loved it … today’s bike are of course very different.

back to the topic: I’m thinking of getting a solaris max or a stanton sherpa. i’m 5’10 and with the solaris that’d mean that i should go for a Medium. I’ve talked to cotic and the also suggest a medium. stanton would suggest a 17” frame although the 19” frame’s dimension is much closer to the medium solaris. of course the solaris is to be used with a 35mm stem and the sherpa doesn’t recommend any stem length.

so i’d be happy to hear recommendations regarding sherpa vs. solaris but also regarding frame size.

the riding i do: I live in the city so before/after every ride i have to cover around 3 miles to get to the hills / woods / trails. i mostly do 10-20 mile loops with lots of fire roads, and some steep uphill and downhill sections in between. no jumping, no bikeparks.

I am the same height and have a large SolarisMax which I am always complaining about on here as being like a tank. I think the problem is I used to have a medium Soul which was a little small but chuckable.
I really should have bought a medium SolarisMax which I think might suit you better. I don’t hate mine enough to sell it but I often wonder if my objections would be answered by dropping a size.
Strangely, a bike tempting me if I did sell would be the Chameleon. I sat on a Large in a bike shop and it felt much more comfortable.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts! Frame size really can be a difficult one to figure out. My brother and I are the same size and there where times when we’d ride the exact same bikes – only that he would always ride a larger frame than me. When I tried his bike, I hated it – when he tried mine, he hated it ….
Regarding the Solaris Max I’m 100% sure I’d go for the medium. If I choose to go with the Sherapa, I think I would have to go with a 19″ as the 17″ would be shorter than my chameleon.
With the chameleon some people of my size go for the medium – other go for the large. I find the medium suits me very well and I could be very happy for years to come …. only that I’l like to have a steel frame …..

i’m 5’10 and with the solaris that’d mean that i should go for a Medium.

I’m also 5’10” … (swear I used to be 5’11”, but life is cruel) … and ride a Medium SolarisMAX (well, now a SodaMAX, I swapped everything across) … sizing is bang on … even though I ride a Large Rocket. Depends what you want I think… but I definitely ride a hardtail in a different way to big travel full suss bike, and my sizing requirements differ because of that. Also, I did have input into the Longshot SolarisMAX sizes, as I never felt quite right on any size of the old Cotic hardtails that came before it (always felt between Medium and Large sizes, so rode a custom Medium Long frame, perks of the job), so it had better fit me!

Sounds good, kelvin, thanks! Did you ever look at the sherpa geometry and noticed that the 19” sherpa is almost identical (only shorter chainstays) to the medium Solaris? And it’s recommended for riders from 5’10 to 6’2.

What do you use the Solaris for? Many people call it very ‘downhill focused’ and I wonder if it also makes for a good bike for longer routes in less demanding terrain …

I’m 5’9” and ride a 17” Sherpa with a 50 mm stem. Fit for me is spot on, in that it is small enough to throw around but long enough for long days on the bike with bikepacking kit etc. Personally no way I’d have wanted the 19”, but as many woman my height is in my legs (32” inseam) rather than my back so the reach of the 19 would have been too much. However, some people (men?) with shorter legs have at a similar height have found the standover height of the 19” to be an issue.

@p20 rides a medium Mk2 Solaris at 5’8”. He would have got the 17” Sherpa but probably with a slightly longer stem.

Neither of us were fused by the MAX geometry of the modern Solaris. But both the older Cotic and the Stanton (I’ve got the 853) are excellent. We haven’t ridden our full sus since getting them! (We’ve both come from old 26” Souls – these are a massive improvement and the Souls were good bikes).

What do you use the Solaris for? Many people call it very ‘downhill focused’ and I wonder if it also makes for a good bike for longer routes in less demanding terrain …

In the summer I use the SolarisSodaMAX for everything. It is much better on the downhills than older versions of the Solaris, but I’ve personally never found there to be a trade off in terms of climbing or all day rides. The most recent version has a slightly steeper seat tube, and more mounting points, both aimed at climbing and map crossing use, rather than anything downhill focused.

Oh… fork choice… I use a 130mm fork… going longer or shorter will change things, of course.

@Kelvin – I have a very different view. Coming from the green mk2 which I thought did everything very well – going to the medium longshot (first version).

The Mk2 was definitely a better XC ride. Even if the new version pastes it on descents. That said, I will still pull it out for an all day trundle and put 3000 miles on it in the first year! So it has to be doing something right.

Did you put 120mm forks on the new version? That’s Cy’s favoured setup for a fast XC SolarisMAX build.

6′ on a large smax. Perfect seated and standing fit for me with a 35mm stem. Definitely wouldn’t want it shorter but neither longer. When I looked at the stanton options they all seemed to have shorter ett for the same recommended size which was a deal breaker for me as I hate feeling cramped sitting down and didn’t want to have to slam the saddle all the way back. As yourself and ahsat said, I think the proportions of the various parts of your body are as big a factor as overall height for bike fit tho.
Other thoughts on the bike – love the short stem on it, nice quick steering and the feeling of being behind the wheel when descending not going over it! Definitely confident downhill but the enjoyment definitely not restricted to that at all – a great allrounder imo. I’m constantly fiddling with tyre set up which changes the character quite a bit. The only thing I’d like is sliding dropouts so I could a) try single speed at some point and b) shorten the chainstays to give myself the best chance of learning how to wheelie and manual. The slightly longer stays are my excuse as to why I can’t and I’m sticking with it!
Come to think of it, a sodamax with sliding dropouts could be my perfect hardtail. Kelvin, seems you’re the man to talk to to get that arranged!
Definite plus for the Stanton is you can swap the dropouts I believe.
Good luck 🙂

Interesting how preferences are so different: one thing I don’t really like on the chameleon are the adjustable dropouts: first of all there are no markings to make sure you adjust left/right evenly. it’s also difficult to use a caliper in that area. also it adds 6 bolts that have to checked and greased – i like low maintenance. worst of all they cost around 80 (!) euros. so in case you have a bent hanger it won’t be cheap. although the thing is massive so probably hard to bend.

on the other hand I can try various chainstay length – which I have to do yet. I’ve been running it at 420 since the beginning. I’ll replace the chain this weekend and move the cianstays to full extension and see if that difference is to be noticed.

seems like people are complaining about the long stays on the cotic max. I think I heard an interview with cy where he mentioned that the stays need to grow as the front end grows to keep you in the middle of the bike. makes sense i guess…

Come to think of it, a sodamax with sliding dropouts could be my perfect hardtail.

No SodaMAX in 2022 I’m afraid. There are no free slots to get any built for years, and the price would end up much higher than the last version. Much higher. So nothing on the cards. Which I find sad, as I love mine, but that’s where we are.

Back in the days of the Simple (I still have mine, in a custom size, which I’m never letting go)… sliding dropouts and EBBs were looked at, and prototypes built using them, but they were rejected outright after testing. And track ends aren’t happening again either. It’s a tensioner if you want to run singlespeed now, it’s your only option, and that’s not going to change. Sorry.

I wouldn’t say I’m complaining about the chainstays, I’d just be curious to try them shorter to see how it affects the bike (and my ability to manual!)..
I get that it’s added weight, faff and things to possibly go wrong with some sort of adjustable system but I like the idea of it in theory. One other thing on chainstays is that it makes alot of sense to increase them as the front centre increases to maintain front/rear proportions. But this is extra headache and cost for manufacturers. I reckon you probably get a chainstay best suited to the size of frame the designer rides and then it’s applied to all sizes. Cy’s tall, Dan less so?!

I’ve heard elsewhere there are no sodamax’s on the horizon, Kelvin. Shame but I haven’t got the pockets for one anyway so probably for the best!

You’d need very deep pockets as well! Perhaps one day the supply issues (raw materials and workshop slots) will calm down, and timing and pricing will become reasonable again. I’m not holding my breath though.

As for designing around a “base size” and just extrapolating it to the other sizes, Cotic/Cy doesn’t do that. Multiple sizes are prototyped and ridden by the team.

Kelvin – That was definitely a bit of idle speculation on my part… but would it be the case that if there weren’t any cost implications that cy/cotic or any other manufacturer would keep a consistent chainstay length through their whole size range? Or is it a compromise across all sizes that can help frames (understandably) be built to a budget?

With full-suspension frames, it’s definitely “easier” for all sizes to share the same rear end (cost and stock wise), not sure that’s the case for hardtails, assuming you’re building enough of them. The idea of size specific chainstay lengths is superficially appealing, but I’m not sure it really makes any real difference. People get far too excited about short stays, as there was once so much focus on them. Slacker headangles (and longer forks and shorter stems) are the reason we need longer stays (in my non engineer opinion), so reach/size isn’t the key thing/determinant when it comes to chainstay length.

This is really interesting. Been looking at ‘modern’ bike sizing. The medium SolarisMAX seems insanely long, and all the riders here are bigger than me, even though its theoretically my size.

even though its theoretically my size

How tall are you?

The whole small/medium/large thing needs to go… while it is handy for some people to find which size to try, for others it gets in the way. I don’t even ride the same “size” if comparing models from the same brand (that’s not just a Cotic thing). Just because you’re a “medium” on one bike doesn’t mean you’re a medium an another bike… even if you’re in the height range recommended for it. Bring back demos! Damn pandemic.

Trek and Specialized have smart size guide help systems, and they both recommend I try out multiple sizes (Trek give me an option of 2, Specialized an option of 3 different sizes). Neither of them say that a Medium, or an S3, are “my size”, and leave it at that.

5’7″ after lying down for a while if I’m wearing thick socks.

The whole small/medium/large thing needs to go…

So true. And some consistency in measurements. As an aside, On One quote the Big Dog unsagged, with a fork A-C that doesn’t match the manufacturers A-C for the same fork. A medium grows to an insane reach by the time you use the correct numbers and factor in sag etc. The small is no longer than bikes 5 years or older. So either I’m way off on how long I want to go, or there isn’t a bike out there for me anymore. Kudos to Cotic for putting there measurements on the site that include various forks and make it clear if it’s sagged or not.