• This topic has 16,415 replies, 38 voices, and was last updated 2 days ago by dazh.
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  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • trailmonkey
    Full Member

    Did they sing the National Anthem and the Red Flag ? Seems a tad contradictory.

    Perhaps a surreal mash up of the two could have been the ‘Things Can Only Get Better’ anthem for a new generation.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    People think that Labour promise things that we can’t afford as a country. They are wrong, but you can’t just tell them that, you have to reassure them to win them over. Every single policy Labour announce will be paired with a preemptive answer to the question “how will you pay for it”.

    Of course. It’s just, it doesn’t have to be bullshit. It doesn’t have to play pretty much entirely by the tory party’s rules. Least of all when the tory party isn’t

    also how honest are the tories about their actual objectives (make the rich richer, keep folks in their place, widen social divisions etc etc)? We now have the second highest income inequality of any OECD country in Europe, behind Bulgaria (OECD data. Income inequality. https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm ). The let’s call it budget should take us to the top spot no problem.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Did they sing the National Anthem and the Red Flag ?

    The Red Flag is usually sung at the end of Conference.

    It remains to be seen whether this year they employ the services of a professional singer to camouflage the lack of audience participation when the Red Flag is sung.

    Usually it is sung with great passion. And for many much emphasis is made on the words “Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We’ll keep the red flag flying here”

    ransos
    Free Member

    Usually it is sung with great passion.

    I think they’ve expelled everyone who might sing it with passion.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Shit he just announced the nationalisation of energy! I’m sold.

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    kelvin
    Full Member

    And… it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares by buying out “legacy” producers. Sounds like a sound approach to me.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    And… it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares by buying out “legacy” producers. Sounds like a sound approach to me

    Definitely sounds good

    That it’s called Great British Energy will upset the Tories, who will now have to attack it

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Truss has gifted Starmer a 17pt lead , extra remarkable as there is no ukip to slice up the Tory vote & 20% gone to lib Dems/ GRN/SNP !

    And we haven’t had this winter yet. The worst is yet to come.

    Yeah it’s hard to see how Tories can regain ground given what’s in store.

    dazh
    Full Member

    it’s to be a new nationally owned body focussed on renewables, rather than giving money to those still holding fossil fuel shares

    Yup. He’s essentially bringing about the decline of the fossil fuel energy providers in Britain. That’s quite a revolutionary policy. Combined with the announcement on rail and other stuff I have to say there’s very little to dislike here assuming he doesn’t change his mind.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Missed the speech – work and all that – but, based on what I’ve read, it’s the most positive and encouraging speech by a labour leader for 20 years.
    Strong set of policy commitments; I like!

    jp-t853
    Full Member

    I have Covid today so got to sit down and watch the speech in full.
    It was good with some practical changes that people will be able to buy in to. You just wish it could start tomorrow 🙁

    Speeder
    Full Member

    Does this answer the “Where are the new ideas/visionary leadership/etc” questions?

    Maybe they’ve just been biding their time . . . . . . ?

    With this and PR on the horizon it could just work.

    It could be a long time to the next election mind. . . . .

    ransos
    Free Member

    Combined with the announcement on rail and other stuff I have to say there’s very little to dislike here assuming he doesn’t change his mind.

    That’s my worry: I liked his leadership manifesto, but he then spent the next year disowning it. Let’s hope he sticks to his guns this time.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    Well, optimistically, when he became leader he presumably had lots of horse trading to do. But now it’s been a few years it should be a lot more organised and these things should stick. You’d hope…

    ransos
    Free Member

    Well, optimistically, when he became leader he presumably had lots of horse trading to do.

    It felt like a cynical exercise in buying the left’s votes, after which he set about purging them from party. I can only hope that you’re right about today’s commitments sticking.

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    Surprised there’s not more content by the usual crew on this thread?

    Liking the direction of travel so far.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Even Tory voters like it

    Truss has managed to turn conservatives onto green energy & public ownership 😂😂😂

    binners
    Full Member

    Quiet in here tonight…

    grahamt1980
    Full Member

    They are just grumpy that sks has got some good policies.
    Good interview with Angela Rayner on the news agents podcast recently too

    ransos
    Free Member

    They are just grumpy that sks has got some good policies.

    Eh?

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    With this and PR on the horizon it could just work.

    Proportional representation? Starmer has ruled it out although Conference voted in favour

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/24/keir-starmer-defies-call-for-changes-to-first-past-the-post-voting-system

    Edit: PR would need Labour in government to be implemented. If you meant PR as a vote winner that is far from certain, it was rejected 2 to 1 in a referendum. Although the unpopularity of the LibDems at the time probably played a significant part.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Good interview with Angela Rayner on the news agents podcast recently too

    Angela Rayner is good as she can speak on her feet without anything prepared. I have seen her speak publicly twice now and was pretty impressed both times. She is fluid and knows how to crank up emotions in her audience. Obviously I have only seen her speak in fairly friendly environments.

    ctk
    Full Member

    Timed his run nicely. Looks a sure fire thing. It is reminiscent of the last time Labour got in.

    pk13
    Full Member

    Angela Rayner as no1
    And keir as deputy HS
    Labour would be running the show by now.
    He did ok today.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    I think the 1/2 of Starmer and Rayner works pretty well now. Like it or not a lot of people are turned right off by Rayner- I really like her but Starmer’s maleness, boringness and shapeshifting has the advantage of being inoffensive, while she can be the firebrand and attract people who want that.

    dazh
    Full Member

    They are just grumpy that sks has got some good policies.

    By any measure I’ve been one of the most vocal critics of Starmer, so this is a bit of an odd comment given my earlier post. I still don’t like the guy, but all I really care about is the policies and getting rid of the tories. For the first time in his leadership he looks like he offers both of those, and he’s doing what he said he would do in his leadership campaign which is uniting the party behind some radical transformational policies. Its just a pity he didn’t do it from the start.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    If you meant PR as a vote winner that is far from certain, it was rejected 2 to 1 in a referendum.

    When was that?

    Or are you talking about AV which was a far weaker proposition that nobody wanted?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    . If you meant PR as a vote winner that is far from certain, it was rejected 2 to 1 in a referendum.

    Not only was it not a proper pr system but the majority of politicians in luding labour campaigned aganst it.

    We see different pr systems working in Scotland.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Its just a pity he didn’t do it from the start.

    Maybe wishful, but perhaps somewhere between Art of War and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope-a-dope; bide your time and wait until they’ve reached the truly indefensible, THEN counter.

    stumpyjon
    Full Member

    Its just a pity he didn’t do it from the start.

    Maybe just playing the long game, clearing out the saboteurs in the PLP so this moment didn’t get sabotaged. Would it have made any difference if he had done this earlier, theres been no election. His timing has been bang on, really highlighted the idiocy of the Kwartang / Truss leadership, hes helped to discredit Truss from day one (although she and Kwartang have done most of the work). If he can now keep pressure on he should be able to ride it to the next election and maybe cause another leadership battle in the Tories in the meantime.

    As for radical policies, I don’t think much of what he announced was very radical, just sensible and in sharp contrast with the Tory madness. I really dislike government owned businesses and even I’m on-board with a state owned energy generator based on green technology.

    The country is a mess and being hammered by outside forces, now is not the time for radical experimental policies when it won’t get Labour elected.

    rone
    Full Member

    Quiet in here tonight

    Petty.

    Only because we might be busy and not sat on a ‘puter all day. The only reason for me currently.

    What the hell – you lot disappear in the difficult times and pop up when you hear an announcement that suits.

    Sounds on the surface of it all good ideas but I need to be convinced any of this will be implemented. Self imposed budgetary constraints will make things very tricky.

    These things can’t be enacted unless Rachel Reeves speak the correct financial language. Although I did hear Starmer talk about ‘borrowing’ to invest which is rubbish from a technical explanation but it’s better to admit that now.

    You know all the chaos of the last few days could have been circumvented if the Tories has just said something about Q/E – irrespective of pointless tax cuts. The dollar being generally strong because they got to the internet rates quickly. The dollar will have its day though and you watch the Tories seize that.

    It’s funny I remember lots of folk dissing conference when it suited them but hey ho.

    Some of us are honest enough to welcome stuff.

    Next few days expect stupid comments about the IMF coming to rescue of country that has the power to issue it’s own currency. And possible Tory u-turns.

    This war is far from over. Although I’ve always said the Tories would eventually fatigue themselves into oblivion.

    What’s Truly sad is we could have had all of this and more in 2017 but Corbyn etc. Where just simply lagging. And the playing field is easy for Starmer.

    piemonster
    Full Member

    If someone can direct me to the referendum we had on Proportional Representation that’d be great…

    I do remember the utter horse 💩 referendum in AV mind you.

    rone
    Full Member

    Also: Starmer is simply doing (in a way) what we’ve been asking for on here for a while and that is some big solutions.

    I don’t see how in principle that’s a centrist ‘win’. That’s just adhering to the idea you need left solutions for right-wing problems.

    I presume some of the Centrists here are at odds with nationalised element of GB Energy concept? Because you were.

    (Lol GB energy is a terrible name being previously one of the early companies to go bust! )

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Starmer very good on Radio4 this morning. They’re trying very hard to make the headline story about Rupa Huq… but he set out Labour’s stall very well despite that.

    I don’t see how in principle that’s a centrist ‘win’.

    Who said it was?

    Rone… why join in the over simplification of this debate as “dastardly centrists against the left”? Labour are offering policies that are in stark relief to the those of the Tories, and are carefully choosing, framing, and timing left wing (and green) policy announcements in a way that people who haven’t been voting Labour (or Green) can get behind.

    ransos
    Free Member

    Maybe just playing the long game, clearing out the saboteurs in the PLP so this moment didn’t get sabotaged.

    The reason for “saboteurs” as you call them was because he cynically bought the votes of the left (including mine) then set about removing them from the party. He brought that entirely on himself.

    Anyway, lots to like in the speech yesterday but we’ll have to wait and see if he actually means it this time.

    argee
    Full Member

    Enjoy the small victories just now, no point having the them and us within the labour support, it’s going to be a long two years until the next election, there’ll be a lot of movement, both in personnel and in policies.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Anyway, lots to like in the speech yesterday…..

    I didn’t see the whole of the hour long speech but what I saw or know of it I found encouraging. What concerns me most isn’t what Starmer said, which seems fine, but what he didn’t say.

    Among what he didn’t mention, as I understand it, was any reference to high profile current industrial action and growing calls for industrial action across many sectors.

    This will not have been an oversight, Starmer is the leader of a political party founded by trade unions and still bankrolled by trade unions.

    Starmer has a responsibility to represent organised working people, especially ones currently engaged in dispute with Tory government imposed policies. Plenty of senior Labour politicians recognise this, in contrast Starmer wants to distance himself from such responsibility.

    I no doubt that the announcements of rail nationalisation and Great British Energy is the result of pressure from trade unions, and it very much has to be welcomed imo, but there is still a long way to go.

    On another issue I found the reaction to Starmer’s speech frankly disturbing – the constant standing ovations throughout it and the stage managed sight of his adoring wife rushing to kiss him, followed by a walkabout shaking hands and waving, looked exactly like an American political rally and very little like a Labour Party Conference.

    I’m not blaming Starmer personally for that but it’s worrying just how much the Labour Party has changed in that respect.

    winston
    Free Member

    Starmer was excellent on Today(in fact the whole last half of the program was good for a change with some properly interesting speakers on instead of just wheeling out John Redwood and some idiot from the Spectator yet again for some headbanging).

    He didn’t get sidetracked but at the same time answered the questions put, even the stupid insistance he come up with a figure for the 1p cut in IT. The points he got across were well made and he dealt with the Huq issue in short order by calling it out for what it was straight away.

    Even managed to end on a funny, backed up with some passion.

    Best speech I’ve heard him make yesterday and best interview I’ve heard from him today – perhaps things are looking up but as above, before we get anywhere near a Labour Govt we have to get through the current shitestorm. Its going to be a long and painful 2 years.

    ransos
    Free Member

    On another issue I found the reaction to Starmer’s speech frankly disturbing – the constant standing ovations throughout it and the stage managed sight of his adoring wife rushing to kiss him, followed by a walkabout shaking hands and waving, looked exactly like an American political rally and very little like a Labour Party Conference.

    I don’t care for it either but it’s nothing new.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Was thinking about Labour and Starmer’s current situation last night whilst suffering from insomnia again.

    What they are really selling now is hope, pure and simple and there is a real appetite for that at the moment.

    That appetite is likely to be ravenous 2 years from now.

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