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  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • Premier Icon mrchrispy
    Full Member

    Polls are pointless, the Tories are in for 3-4 years regardless.
    I think they’ll screw this country into the ground, make themselves and their donors richer and them sit back and laugh at Labour as they try and fix/rebuilt the steaming pile if shite they inherit.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?

    If the Tories are still ahead in the polls now how can they ever lose? What would they have to do?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?

    The polling for the party is currently well behind the polling for the leader. It was the other way around. Starmer needs to convince enough of the country that the party is now for them… he hasn’t yet… he might never succeed (I personally don’t think he has the appeal needed to get Labour into power)… but even his (in my opinion) lack lustre performance so far is a stark contrast to the “I’ll never vote for that man” response heard across the North of England last year…

    Also… no one claimed anything would be “hunky dory“, and Starmer isn’t a “centrist“, and there isn’t an election for a long time, sadly.

    Premier Icon mrchrispy
    Full Member

    all the vote the tories gained will be lost fairly quickly when brexit realities start to bite. they win, they get to own this shitshow.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?

    I remember saying the former, not the latter.

    Magic Grandad was the most unpopular leader in UK political history, by a country mile. Looking at the laughable ramblings of Iain Duncan Smith today, it’s amazing to think that even he didn’t get anywhere near Jezzas negative poll ratings. He was uniquely voter-repelling

    But after nearly 5 years of Corbynism (whatever that is?) its not a case of giving it a lick of paint. Its a rebuilding job from the foundations up. That’s going to take time. He’s got 4 years as it stands. Thats how long we’re saddled with this lot for

    I personally think the labour party should be being considerably more vocal in it criticism of the governments shambolic performance and offering much bolder alternatives than ‘lets just go back to how things were before, but a bit shitter, post-Brexit’ which seems to be the sum total of what this government has to say

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    In a crisis the PM gets more airtime and this is reflected in the polls as a positive boost – even if they perform badly in that crisis

    Premier Icon El-bent
    Free Member

    In a crisis the PM gets more airtime and this is reflected in the polls as a positive boost – even if they perform badly in that crisis

    This. People want to be believe and be re-assured that an entity such as a Government has a grip on the situation…albeit an extremely tenuous grip like this Government has.

    This also has the added bonus of people either being forgiving(for the moment) for the “antics” that this Government get’s up to, such as eye tests at Barnard Castle, or Shoeing in Russian oligarchs /family members into the House of Lords, or letting stuff pass “unnoticed” such as quietly handing over our confidential medical records to an organisation with links to Cambridge analytica, as they did on the last day of Parliament before Summer Recess in order to make sure questions weren’t asked in the House, all they way through to IDS not reading the small print.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    He needs to make some better appointments. Just watched the shadow chancellor on channel 4. I have no idea what her name is (having Googled it, it’s apparently Anneliese Dodds) I’d think nobody else does either.

    She has all the presence, authority and gravitas of a primary school supply teacher.

    Given that her opposite number is the only Tory with any credibility, she needs to up her game, quite considerably

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    She is very much … ‘great CV, but the interview should have weeded her out’.

    Premier Icon CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    shadow chancellor

    Premier Icon rone
    Full Member

    I’m sure people were more of the opinion on here it was all Corbyn’s fault – and change the leader and it everything would click into place.

    Corbyn never had a much of a chance with lame idiots of the Guardian (Freeland) and the vile Ian Austin and his vote Tory letters. Not to mention ‘my’ own John Mann causing all manner of shit. And these people were supposed to be on the left!

    20pts ahead with Keir Starmer is now the often cited joke that was very much the rubber stamp of 2019.

    There seems to be an element of back tracking about to begin.

    Another major poll to feast on.

    Centrism will not win out. It simply can’t. Change UK and the Libdems are the benchmark for failure.

    And I agree Socialism is a very hard sell too but is the long term answer to many problems.

    The red/blue wallers in my area are really into Boris. Crack that and we could make progress.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    If you want to make the UK more socialist (I do) and, more importantly, take the reigns of power away form the mob currently in no10… stop bleating on about Corbyn and centrism.

    Premier Icon rone
    Full Member

    If you want to make the UK more socialist (I do) and, more importantly, take the reigns of power away form the mob currently in no10… stop bleating on about Corbyn and centrism

    I make a point of only mentioning Corbyn when other people bring him into the fold. There was a lot of good coming from his direction too. That shouldn’t be backed off from.

    Also I don’t want us to just take the reigns of power – it has to also be a Government that will actually change something.

    Centrism has to be discussed or bleated on.

    I completely get looking forward but it’s very difficult to debate these issues without avoiding the things you mention.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Also I don’t want us to just take the reigns of power

    I wouldn’t worry your head over that particular ‘problem’.

    Have you been living in a cave for 5 years? Oh… sorry… Maybe a common room?

    The UK will never ever elect a socialist government. Especially not one fronted by some bearded weirdo

    We know that you don’t like that fact, and refuse to come to terms with it, but there it is… that’s the reality of the situation. He tested it to destruction. Twice. The last attempt delivered the worst labour performance for 85 years and delivered Boris a thumping great majority to do what the hell he likes

    Deal with it

    So the Labour Party has to offer something that can get as much social justice as possible into something that the majority of people will actually vote for

    Otherwise it’s just permanent Tory rule which benefits nobody other than the rich.

    People slag off Tony Blair and ‘centrism’ for delivering 13 years of Labour government and three election victories.

    There’s a name for these people…

    Actually, I can think of quite a few names for them. Some of them quite sweary. None are complimentary

    And to pre-empt the next word out of your mouth…

    IRAQ!!!

    Maybe you should leave the common room and engage with reality?

    Just a thought

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    You need 40% of the public. Less than half that are happy to use the word socialism at all. Look, I think Starmer is a lack lustre leader who’ll surprise me if he wins an election… but I’ll take him as PM, if he can get the support of enough voters, over Johnson, Patel, Raab… any of them. If you think it’s Corbyn’s way, or it might as well be Cummings’ way… then, you’re a selfish idealist helping to doom the country to a generation of right wing asset stripping.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Maybe you should leave the common room

    Are you planning to? Nothing in your track record suggests that’s likely.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Evening comrade! Thanks for your insightful contribution, as ever. Always educational. The revolution is going well, I presume…

    I’m northern working class scum, mate. Left school at 16. Never been near a common room. I like to think you did it on my behalf. I take some comfort in that. We’re always grateful when our betters, in the form of middle-class socialist revolutionaries, ride to our rescue. Just like Jeremy. They know what’s best for us all, after all.

    Solidarity, brother.

    And thank you. From the bottom of my heart. You and Jeremy. We all need somebody to look up to. Even if sometimes that can get a bit sort of cultish

    Premier Icon copa
    Free Member

    Actually, I can think of quite a few names for them. Some of them quite sweary. None are complimentary

    I find your political banter hilarious.
    It’s so funny and outrageous with all your hilarious nicknames and all that.
    What’s brilliant is that you treat politics like supporting a football team.

    In many ways, you do for politics what Greavsie did for 80s soccer chat.
    And like Greavsie used to say – politics is a ‘funny ol’ game’.
    Well done.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Evening comrade! Thanks for your insightful contribution, as ever. Always educational.

    No problem. And I’m always happy to help you with anything you don’t understand.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    In many ways, you do for politics what Greavsie did for 80s soccer chat.
    And like Greavsie used to say – politics is a ‘funny ol’ game’.
    Well done.

    Thanks. But I always thought myself more…

    “Frankly, the display from Jeremy was shambolic…unforgivable…“

    Premier Icon anagallis_arvensis
    Free Member

    Maybe you should leave the common room and engage with reality?

    You really are a very tiresome individual and whats funny about your constant sixth form bilge is that it shows you have the debating power of a child.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Thanks. But I always thought myself more…

    I think it’s apparent that self awareness isn’t your strongest suit.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    No problem. And I’m always happy to help you with anything you don’t understand.

    like people thinking Jeremy Corbyn could ever be prime minister?

    Do feel free to enlighten me with the benefit of your obvious wisdom, brother ….

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Do feel free to enlighten me with the benefit of your obvious wisdom, brother ….

    Why on earth would I waste energy on trying to educate pork?

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    The worst thing about politics, for me, is the tribalism.

    I’m neither left, right, upside down or other.

    It seems to me in UK politics at the moment you have to subscribe to a camp, which is utter nonsense.

    Every issue that every government faces will have it’s own sensible balanced solution. But they can’t do it, for “reasons”.

    A solution that will never be reached in the current UK set up, as it’s not towing the party line.

    There are three answers to any UK political question, or millions if you think about it, but let’s boil it down to three.

    1. the tory way
    2. the labour way
    3. The correct way… heaven forbid a consensus – unthinkable.

    Premier Icon Edukator
    Free Member

    So far Starmer has convinced me that he’s dull and one of them, as in one of the privileged pricks too quick to cite his credentials and too slow to address issues that concern people who might vote for him. The last PMQ before the Summer recess was dismal. I really don’t give flying duck about the Russian report, there’s the prospect of millions of jobs going, companies going to the wall, parts of the economy close to collapse and the questions were so lame, they cast more doubt on the intelligence of the general public than the did on Boris. It’s never good telling people they were stupid stupid enough to swallow foreign propaganda, you alienate them.

    Comrade Corbyn was **** irritating with his 1974 brand of militance, Starmer is equally **** irritating with his whiny lawyer nit picking. Is there no one in the Labour party who can read the writing in huge letters on the wall and tell people who aren’t stinking rich what’s wrong with society for them and how to fix it?

    Labour needs a voice that represents anyone who isn’t stinking rich and Starmer is stinking rich.

    Premier Icon inkster
    Free Member

    Who thinks we’re going to see a Starmer vs Johnson contest in a bit over 4 years time?

    What we are going to see next year will be the banking crisis + the 80’s recession + the 70’s discontent + the social upheaval of the 60’s. All at once. I can’t see our political status quo surviving that.

    Our traditional politics are now meaningless, they’ve literally flipped north-south, the two parties don’t even represent any political fundamentals anymore.

    If Macron could challenge the political status quo in France in a pre covid world, I find it impossible to think that outside figures won’t succeed in challenging our political establishment over the next 4 years.

    Premier Icon inkster
    Free Member

    Sorry rone, I can’t see Labour cracking the red/blue wallers. They lost them and I can’t see them getting them back.

    Corbyn’s Labour let the genie out of the bottle. The blue/red wallers were already conservative with a small c, and many of them were racist and xenophobic but voted along class and economic lines. In switching their vote they have made a cultural identification no longer based on class identity.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    If Keir doesn’t go after the Tories hard on this PPE scandal then what is he for?

    Premier Icon Edukator
    Free Member

    PPE is a detail. If Starmer goes after them on that it’s more wasted questions. Inkster has correctly identified tha major issue:

    What we are going to see next year will be the banking crisis + the 80’s recession + the 70’s discontent + the social upheaval of the 60’s. All at once.

    Labour needs to tell people how it will keep roofs over people’s heads, food in their stomachs, the bailifs from the door, their savings intact… .

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Nah. It needs to show people the corruption. Tories are great at woolly promises and people lap them up.

    Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Wasted questions?, they’re all wasted. Pmqs is a sham, Boris can avoid questions and lie with no comeback. Starmer needs to get on the telly more.

    If what is being reported is true then its imo en9ugh to bring the govt down.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    The UK will never ever elect a socialist government. Especially not one fronted by some bearded weirdo

    Not when people who claim to be Labour supporters hate anyone left of David Cameron.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    The worst thing about politics, for me, is the tribalism.

    There are three answers to any UK political question, or millions if you think about it, but let’s boil it down to three.

    The worst thing is that the tribalism is fake as ultimately the two/three sides are usually in agreement with each other and don’t challenge how the system works. Corbyn came up against such vicious opposition because he threatened that cosy consensus. Noam Chomsky summed it up very well:

    “In the US, there is basically one party – the business party. It has two factions, called Democrats and Republicans, which are somewhat different but carry out variations on the same policies. By and large, I am opposed to those policies. As is most of the population.”

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Sorry rone, I can’t see Labour cracking the red/blue wallers. They lost them and I can’t see them getting them back.

    This. The red wallers are thick small-B bigots with a chip on their shoulder against anyone with an education or who doesn’t talk with a thick regional accent. Under Starmer (and Corbyn before him) labour represents a hand-wringing, do-gooding metropolitan elite which cares more for immigrants and transexuals than the interests of plumbers, welders and carpet fitters. They’re so bloody thick they genuinely think Boris and Cummings represent their interests. The only way Starmer will get them back is if he starts blowing his dog-whistle on immigration and benefits claimants, and that’s not going to happen.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    The red wallers are thick small-B bigots with a chip on their shoulder against anyone with an education or who doesn’t talk with a thick regional accent.

    And that’s how all this started 10 years ago. Gordon Brown called that Gillian Duffy woman bigoted (he was right, she was) and rather than then explaining to her why she was wrong (and bigoted, and stupid…), ha had to go back and apologise on national TV and it validated her view across the nation.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Careful, you’re not allowed to call dumb racists dumb and racist, that’s elitist – and that’s much worse apparently.

    Premier Icon BillMC
    Full Member

    It will be interesting to see if this potential downward social mobility leads to increased energy and ideas for change. Those who see themselves as ‘middle class professionals’ will realise they are workers too. Nonsense categories though. I passed up the opportunity for an apprenticeship as a Thames Lighterman and went to university instead, but I’m still working class.

    Premier Icon jet26
    Free Member

    Not my area of expertise but Starmers.record asna barrister seems very very good so he is clearly capable and bright.

    The key to going after PM/Govt over all the current issues is surely timing and picking your arguments. A well timed strike with the relevant evidence is better than constant sniping over anything and everything.

    Would love to see a starmer led labour government but it’s about waiting for the right moments and opportunities? And accepting that may be a slow process to change people’s minds as others have said.

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Full Member

    The only way Starmer will get them back is if he starts blowing his dog

    Rather unfortunate line wrapping on my iPad.

    It would certainly get their attention….

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