Viewing 40 posts - 15,321 through 15,360 (of 15,928 total)
  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • nickc
    Full Member

    How many folks will check his claim?

    How many folks on the other hand will look at their pay packet that hasn’t gone up in years and prices in supermarkets and the price of petrol and says to themselves “Yeah, that feels about right”

    I’ll bet there’s more in that second group than in the first group

    Cummings strategy is always to make your opponent defend himself. I think he once said something along the lines of “as soon as you force them to defend their record or explain some detail, they’ve lost” TBH I’ve seen the Tories and their like make these sorts of claims all the time, and y’know I’m happy for Starmer and the front bench to start talking up the idea that 12 years of Tory has been a disaster. If anything there should be more and more of this sort of stuff and a constant constant barrage of forcing the Tories onto the back foot by having to defend claims made by the opposition rather than talk about their own shit.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    How many folks will check his claim?

    Well let us hope that wasn’t what Starmer was thinking when he made the easily checkable false claim, because otherwise that would put him in exactly the same category as Johnson.

    To be honest I personally doubt that there is much difference between Johnson and Starmer when it comes to honesty and integrity, sadly.

    For obvious reasons Johnson as PM has far more of what he says scrutinised. However I feel they are both non-conviction politicians who will say whatever is necessary to further their own personal careers. Grim.

    rone
    Full Member

    I’m willing to cut him some slack on that.

    We were almost in recession just before the pandemic and it wasn’t widely reported either.

    Growth for GDP is a poor way of establishing an economy’s true value.

    Doesn’t take into account productivity, efficiency, green credentials, wages.

    All part of the real economy.

    GDP is just a blunt capitalists dream.

    rone
    Full Member

    Starmer was no different offering stuff to the left to get elected than Truss jumping through hoops now.

    Only, Centrists despise Truss and she hasn’t made the positipn yet!

    Why is it with Labour whatever it takes to get elected?

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    I’m willing to cut him some slack on that.

    Yeah me too. Which is why I said you have to be generous and assume that it was an early morning causal and sloppy attitude to the real facts, rather than a premeditated and deliberate lie.

    Though he needs to polish up his act and not claim false facts which C4 can easily expose as such.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    Why is it with Labour whatever it takes to get elected?

    Because Starmer’s mission is to get elected, it’s a nice job. Don’t know about anything else he might want.

    nickc
    Full Member

    Because Starmer’s mission is to get elected,

    We have a FPTP system that elects people to PM via a weird beauty contest. Until that changes, these are the politicians we have.

    dazh
    Full Member

    How many folks will check his claim?

    I’ve said for a long time the labout party should be playing the tories at their own game. I’ve got no problem with Starmer making whatever baseless accusations he wants as long as it hits home. Of course Labour’s problem is that they don’t have a compliant media to repeat those claims as fact without challenging them so it would probably backfire. The easier thing to do is simply make the point that most people are a lot poorer after 12 years of tory rule but I can’t say I’m hearing that much from Starmer.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    If he made the point about people being poorer that could be construed as supporting pay claims and he wouldn’t want to do that.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    I’ve got no problem with Starmer making whatever baseless accusations he wants as long as it hits home.

    I have huge problems with dishonesty from politicians, no matter what their cause. If their arguments are sound and convincing there is absolutely no need for dishonesty. I have always assumed that dishonesty is based on a weakness of their argument.

    My attitude is change your views if they don’t sit comfortably with the truth, don’t try to alter the truth to fit your views.

    Contemporary politicians suffer very much from a lack credibility, far more so than say fifty years ago, a very major contributor of that is the dishonesty which so many voters precieve all politicians have.

    dazh
    Full Member

    I have huge problems with dishonesty from politicians

    Well there’s a difference betweeen openly lying about your position on something and making a hyperbolic claim about something the opposition may or may not have done. I’m talking about the latter, as that seems to be what cuts through with potential voters. So whilst a claim that under the tories there has been zero growth is not factually correct, the broad thrust of the argument that people are worse off is true (although why they didn’t just say the latter I don’t know). Unfortunately voters don’t want to hear factual detail, only vague, easy to understand soundbites. The tories are very good at those, and labour needs to be too.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Well there’s a difference betweeen openly lying about your position on something and making a hyperbolic claim….

    Whatever the differences dishonesty is dishonesty. I have no time for dishonesty in politics. Making unintentional mistakes is one thing but deliberately misleading is unacceptable imo.

    And the political persuasion of a politician is irrelevant in that respect – I don’t apply double standards.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I have no time for dishonesty in politics.

    Says our resident Brexitier.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Yeah that’s right Kelvin – I don’t support the EU* and I don’t like dishonesty in politics.

    What is the problem – apart from your personal obsession with me?

    And what do you mean by “resident brexitier” – that I am the only person still on stw who hasn’t been intimidated by the echo chamber and will openly admit to being opposed to the EU?

    * I am perfectly honest about that.

    rone
    Full Member

    Big interest rise on the cards today from our lovable rogues at the BoE.

    We are seriously punishing people with all the tools of the market.

    All we hear is Brexit, Brexit, Brexit with little attention on the establishment running people in to the ground.

    (Clue: Brexit is not a reason to increase interest rates.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    little attention on the establishment running people in to the ground

    Plenty of that in the threads about the politicians doing that. Hint, it’s not Starmer or anyone else in the opposition.

    My comment was simply about politicians and honesty. Brexit has only occurred because of politicians prepared to lie* to achieve it, and gain power off the back of it.

    [* they might describe it as “exaggerating the truth”, which looks like Starmer’s approach with this “no growth” attack… it’s a low tactic… but hard to argue that it isn’t what works in modern politics… which is depressing ]

    rone
    Full Member

    My comment was simply about politicians and honesty. Brexit has only occurred because of politicians prepared to lie* to achieve it, and gain power off the back of it.

    I wasn’t targeting you and what you said – there is however a lack of criticism without Brexit being at the end of paragraph. People would do well to pull back from Brexit and take in the entire economic paradigm.

    Starmer’s not offering anything congruous with growth actually – even if a modern society needs more than that.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Interest rates shouldn’t be raised. It’ll be interesting to see if either party propose anything to address the elements of supply side inflation that are home grown, or any serious mitigation for the elements that are international. I suspect not. The government will be running the country with one eye on older savers who are strongly motivated to vote for them, the opposition will be running scared of being painted as overly profligate and/or anti-Brexit (still lots of voters who think that Labour would burn money and reverse Brexit… even if neither fear makes any genuine sense in 2022, never mind by the time of the election).

    rone
    Full Member

    It’s supposed to be a big one today 0.50 – following the Fed big increase. 0.75

    The USA are now in recession by traditional numbers.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Would Starmer/Reeves criticise a large rise if we had one? I suspect they would. I also suspect that the UK will have regular small rises, not a 0.5% one.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Says our resident Brexitier.

    Voting for brexit makes you dishonest? That’s a new one to me, and completely ridiculous.

    Would Starmer/Reeves criticise a large rise if we had one?

    They’ve said almost nothing so far beyond meaningless platitudes about boosting growth. Starmer probably doesn’t even understand what interest rates do, and Reeves still thinks we have to tax before we spend. They’re both clueless.

    rone
    Full Member

    Would Starmer/Reeves criticise a large rise if we had one? I suspect they would. I also suspect that the UK will have regular small rises, not a 0.5% one.

    Let’s see today shall we?

    They will just the say BoE is independent – you know the script.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Voting for brexit makes you dishonest?

    Absolutely not. The comment was on “dishonesty in politics” and “dishonesty from politicians”. Millions of honest people voted for Brexit.

    And for the record, I’m not defending Starmer’s low tactics here. When attacking a low growth record, use that language, treat voters like adults, don’t call it “no growth”.

    rone
    Full Member

    0.5% – 1.25 to 1.75%

    Drunks.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Not good. Ultimately this will only increase costs for much of the working public, and for SMEs. Have the Labour team welcomed it, or called the BofE out on it? I’d go for calling it a sign of government failure. The BofE deserve to be called out on their decision, but the opposition should take aim at the government, more than BofE, for obvious reasons. Not least because our “independent” bank has to follow the remit the government sets… a remit that’s needed updating for some time now.

    ransos
    Free Member

    Voting for brexit makes you dishonest?

    Absolutely not. The comment was on “dishonesty in politics” and “dishonesty from politicians”. Millions of honest people voted for Brexit.

    Why were you attacking Ernie, then? It seems completely unnecessary.

    rone
    Full Member

    Not least because our “independent” bank has to follow the remit the government sets… a remit that’s needed updating for some time now.

    For sure. Times are different now.

    We react too late to stuff.

    I’d go for calling it a sign of government failure

    Yes. As we know, and a lot of people don’t know – the government own the BoE.

    It’s an arm of government whether people believe it or not.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Well let’s hope they try, and succeed, to pin the interest rate hike on the government then. It’s appropriate that the BofE makes real time decisions like this… but with the wrong targets, and the wrong personnel, the wrong decisions will be made. And this is a wrong decision, and will increase the chance of a long period of poor growth, increasing the cost of living for those struggling most, and result in falling living standards for nearly everyone else… all stuff that the opposition should tear the government a new one on. Starmer’s “no growth” attack seems to be setting the scene for those attacks… (although I’d much rather an honest “lower economic growth than when Labour were in office, and what little growth there has been has not been to the benefit of the British public” line.

    rone
    Full Member

    Here here.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Why on earth to MPs even accept these hospitality football tickets?!? When the Private Eye guys pressed the issue at one of the select committees they absolutely nailed it… now where’s the clip…?

    rone
    Full Member

    Think I’ve seen that floating around on YouTube feed

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I’m sure there was a whole thread on it on this forum… but, as ever, the search fails me (or I’m too impatient).

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    Sir Keir Starmer found to have breached MPs’ code of conduct eight times

    But it was an honest mistake which anyone could make. Including apparently a former Director of Public Prosecutions with renowned forensic skills and remarkable attention to detail.

    To be fair as the leader of a major political party he probably has more important things on his mind – such as what policies to offer voters.

    dazh
    Full Member

    From the guardian on Starmers picket line problem. Yet another indicator of his competence and political ability. He’s starting to make Liz Truss look like a consummate professional.

    A Labour source said:

    Nobody forced Keir to choose this issue as the big test of his authority, but he did and his authority has been tested by junior frontbenchers and his opponent in the last leadership election and he is not doing anything about it.

    His office was floundering in terms of its response. It was a total shit show.

    Another MP said the issue has severely damaged Starmer’s authority and it was a “dangerous moment” for the Labour leader ahead of the party conference next month.

    They added:

    The whole thing is just a mess and I don’t see it being resolved. It will cast a very long shadow and has the potential to derail conference.

    Riksbar
    Full Member

    He failed to declare an invitation to the British Kebab awards. We need to know who actually kofte up for that.

    Scapegoat
    Full Member

    He failed to declare an invitation to the British Kebab awards. We need to know who actually kofte up for that.

    I imagine it would be a rich Turkish doner?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    What’s funny is that the guy that likes kebabs & footy is seen as the elite

    And the guy that gets people to pay for his gold wallpaper & holidays in luxury villas is the man of the people 😳

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    I imagine it would be a rich Turkish doner?

    Well, I for one will seekh kebabs elsewhere in future.

    LimboJimbo
    Full Member

    I imagine it would be a rich Turkish doner?

    The right wing press will skewer him for this.

    I bet he’s been meeting ex-KFC officers in private as well.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    It’s not the KFC we should be concerned about! It’s the naan state.

Viewing 40 posts - 15,321 through 15,360 (of 15,928 total)

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