Sir! Keir! Starmer!

The tories are going to try and shift the narrative now, they are starting to play the blame game with the EU again, so they can get back onto familiar territory where they will expect to win, and at least have the support of their media allias. They are also deliberately antagonizing the teaching unions, which IMO is a politically motivated action to try and draw the old anti union battle lines, and pit the private vs public sector.

Most of the press will quickly line up behind the tories on these two issues, so it’s going to be a tougher jobs, especially if the unions rise to the bait, which while they have every right to do so, will damage them and labour. Play it right and the tories will just keep embarrassing themselves as they lie and lie in an attempt to create more divisions in society, but there is danger ahead.

Agree with that ^^^.

Starmer needs to keep pressing for specifics…

“Can the right honourable gentleman please explain how the EU has made the covid-19 situation in the UK worse / withdrawn cooperation / killed baby robins?”

As for the teachers and their unions, they need to not rise to the bait like they have. Using phrases like ‘withdrawing cooperation’ is dumb. They need to lay out a series of easily understandable scenarios and questions and ask for specific clarification on how they should be handled practically. Bohnson’s lot will try to give it the ‘we cannot anticipate every situation’ bullshit, which is where the unions should so ‘of course not, just the three or four we have asked about’.

Keep holding these bastards up to scrutiny. The longer they are in full view the more stupid they look.

I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

Surely this offers another opportunity for Starmer to side with public sector workers who’s stock has never been higher and point out what we all know… that the Tories couldn’t give a flying **** about them

Hopefully Starmer will end up being like the ‘Marvel’s the Punisher’ for the Tories.
Love to see him go head to head with Pritstick Patel.

As for link to Guardian article on previous page – based on momentum attempting to stir shit.
Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters but momentum – if they truly were labour party supporters – would be looking to work with the party and it’s new leadership.
Instead they continue agitating for their narrow range of interests and fail, yet again, to see the bigger picture.
Next weeks PMQs will provide another opportunity for Starmer to humiliate johnson as the incompetent he is; tory (mis)management of covid-19….the gift that keeps on giving.

binners
Subscriber

I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

I was absolutely amazed at the official government twitter and facebook posts- absolutely wall-to-wall furious parents. Even the bots got drowned out. It’s obviously not a great way to judge real public opinion but it didn’t feel at all like the usual bottom-half-of-the-internet

I think they may well have misjudged the public mood by picking a fight with teachers.

I think they have a reasonable chance of splitting teachers off from NHS staff. There is a lot of latent anti-teacher sentiment amongst 30-40 somethings who resent the holidays and the shorter days (I know that is not really the case a lot of the time, but this is all about ‘impressions’ rather specifics).

Remember Joris is all about vague impressions rather than specifics. That is where bullshitters thrive.

It will only take a few days of media manipulation, blaming teachers for blocking life returning to normal, being uncooperative, not willing to take the risks everybody else has to etc etc and the public mood could change. The tories are masters at it.

It is better ploy for the tories to attack a union (or a unionized profession to be more accurate) than lay into Starmer directly, if the union mishandle the situation, Starmer will be forced to defend them or denounce them, but he has little control over them. If this time the union gets it right, they just turn on someone else next time until someone cracks.

Good news! Lansman resigns.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52694053
Love this quote….said he would not miss “operating against a backdrop of warring factions, abuse and hatred”.
He and his fellow travellers were responsible for warring, abuse and hatred.
FFS, what a hypocrite.
Definitely won’t be missed.

Good riddance to him and the rest of his millionaire Marxist chums. 3 years too late

Hypocrite is most definitely the word. Amongst many others that spring readily to mind

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out

As for link to Guardian article on previous page – based on momentum attempting to stir shit.
Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters but momentum – if they truly were labour party supporters – would be looking to work with the party and it’s new leadership.

Like I said, ignore the messenger and instead concentrate on the message rather than giving it something barely worthy of lip service.

As for the “no true scotsman” argument…

squirrel, I understand the message and don’t do lip service to or for anything.
My comments still stand.
Any thoughts about Lansman resigning as momentum chief exec?
Milne and McCluskey are now looking more and more like ghosts at the feast; let’s hope that Unite members get rid of red len and Starmer shows Milne the door – Augean stables and all that.

Milnes already gone. And Jennie Formby.

All paid off on the big fat juicy contracts they awarded themselves a week before they delivered the worst election defeat for 85 years

Millionaires already, they rewarded themselves very, very handsomely for their epic failure

All very socialist, comrades

And now they’re rats leaving the ship they sunk.

binners – I knew formby had gone; must have missed milne’s departure; time for a celebratory drink as the process of washing the shit away continues.
Their self-awarded contracts amounted to nothing less than fraud.
Despite the best efforts of milne & co the ship hasn’t sunk; it’s been holed but is being repaired.

Starmer is a multi-millionaire and was financed by squillionnaire industrialists. Why? Because they knew he would back the landlords and business owners, and they were right.

Frank – stop rewriting history – most of the infighting came from the right of the party who behaved appallingly from supporting tories in Scotland to continual briefing against the party in England

I understand the message and don’t do lip service to or for anything.

So do you have any thoughts other than “Sure, there is a continuing need to protect renters”? What should the opposition be doing? Do you think they are doing it effectively?

I’m not talking about or interested in Corbyn, Milne, Marx or whoever else you trot out. This topic is about Starmer, Corbyn and chums have their own.

Starmer’s not perfect, particularly if you wanted a more left wing but electable version of it, it does seem quite Tory lite in places.

But right now it feels like being stood in a house that’s on fire, but I’m refusing to go outside because I’m only in my pyjamas and it’s cold out there. Anything that is an alternative to what we have now has to be a step in the right direction.

And I’m certainly looking forward to SKS QC taking Boris apart time and again over the coming weeks and months.

or another way – I’ve been out of the town and missed the last bus home. There’s not another one until tomorrow and it’s an eight mile walk.

Or, there’s a bus over there that doesn’t go right past my house but it does go to the next village which is only two miles away.

For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV

For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV

Exactly. What I said before he was elected. He was the right choice for many reasons but he won’t help them get elected. As I said a few months ago, the average voter won’t even know who he is and if/when they do hear him they will just glaze over.

For the non Parliment watcher like me Starmer seems like a complete non entity, never on the news and never saying much when he does manage to get on TV

Interesting. It’s always insightful to hear what people who are not hugely glued to politics think about events and people.

You could replace Starmer in your sentence with Corbyn at the time, it was a common criticism.

For those who don’t watch parliament etc. Where would you most be likely to see news/updates from the opposition leader?

Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

If it’s not, then we have a system ever more broken beyond repair than I first thought.

Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

You’d hope, and assume. But is it really?

For those who don’t watch parliament etc. Where would you most be likely to see news/updates from the opposition leader?

That’s a pretty key issue across all politics. How do you put political issues out there where more of the “I don’t do politics” types will see it, understand it and start to engage with it.

You could replace Starmer in your sentence with Corbyn at the time, it was a common criticism.

Not really Corbyn was often featured but for the wrong reasons.

Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

Nope, I only knew because I have been looking here regularly, I popped in a few weeks back thinking that Starmer seems shite and was surprised to read here the idea that he was doing so well.

Due to PMQs we have spoken about Starmer .

Whenever someone speaks to me about Dumbojo I say how refreshing it is to have Starmer , a man who knows what he is talking about.

We are spreading the word.

Even if you tell your soppy ,racist ,bigot mother what a nice man he is and how handsome he looks we can just make people aware of him.

Anyone who doesn’t like him…compare him to Dumbojo not Corbyn.

You’re right. Quick Google and one of the most obvious articles is a red top having a pop because he owns a £1m house and several acres of green belt that “could” be worth £10m. Clearly, he can’t represent ordinary people with wealth like that, but the Tories can? If people really fall for that, we deserve every dry bumming we get FFS!

Surely, if he wanted to turn seven acres of green belt into £10m, he would be better off backing the Tories

I suspect he gets better coverage because he’s their placeman. He’ll be lionised in the media (whilst attacking like a kitten) as leader of the opposition (Piers Morgan does a better job) whilst delivering a moderate Tory agenda and not at all putting the wind up his backers, owners of supermarket chains, car distributors or indeed those middle eastern interests.
It’s then the job of the press to persuade the poor men to go round shouting the case for the rich men’s candidate, and don’t they do it well. People are rightly getting concerned about easing off the lockdown but could they tell you what Labour’s policy is? Not owning a tv is my excuse but having looked at Starmer’s pronouncements they seem as terrifyingly socialist like ‘the Welfare State is a nice thing to have’ but then that’s why he is where he is and Corbyn isn’t.

Of the UK electorate, that bothers to vote on a regular basis.

How many would easily be categorised as “moderate Tory”?

Surely the kicking he’s giving Boris in PMQ is making the news so will increase public awareness.

Nope, I only knew because I have been looking here regularly, I popped in a few weeks back thinking that Starmer seems shite and was surprised to read here the idea that he was doing so well.

Unless you take a real interest in following the news and do it sensibly through some reliable sources, most people don’t see this stuff on a day to day basis.

And if you were to form your opinion on content seen on Facebook, then you’ll just see he’s a pedophile sympathiser.

Piers Morgan does a better job

Piers Morgan is an angry bully.

Corbyn struggled because he spent most of his time angrily shouting down the opposition without displaying any real leadership qualities of his own.

Time will tell if Starmer has all the right ingredients, but his intelligence, temperament and comprehensive approach are exactly what we need. Enough of all this tribal bullshit and my dad’s got bigger muscles than your dad. Time we acted like grown ups again and stopped shouting at each other.

but his intelligence, temperament and comprehensive approach are exactly what we need.

For what? What will this approach change? It’ll increase his chances of winning an election, but what then will he do? The corrollary to this intelligent and polite approach is that nothing much will change, which is why the rightwing press and their backers are not too alarmed at the prospect of PM Starmer. It seems fairly obvious to me fairly that people in this country don’t really want to change anything, they just want to be insulated and feel good about all the injustices that are perpetrated on them and others. Starmer’s going to be a great candidate to do that.

Piers Morgan is an angry bully.

Piers Morgan uses manufactured anger to self publicise.

He supposedly ‘traduced’ that crook Bridgen the other day.

He really didn’t he just shouted at him and Bridgen sat there with a “I’m just here to soak up some heat, I’ve already had the cheque, the money is in the bank” look on his face.

How many would easily be categorised as “moderate Tory”?

Probably a lot more than you’d think.

dahz as usual your own extreme views are blinding you, why us it important for Starmer to be electable? Here’s some reasons:

1. Get Boris and his downright dangerous bunch of incompetent morons out.
2. Prevent next set of incompetent morons from getting in.
3. Stop a group of competent hard right people getting in.
4. Bringing politics back towards the centre.
5. Undo some of the madness that has been perpetrated on us and provide some stable governance to reduce the impact of what’s coming.

Ok you may not get the left wing utopia you’re after but the country will be a lot better off with Starmer in charge. The 5 points above do represent significant change from where we are today, it might not be free broadband for everyone and renationalise everything but they were never going to happen anyway.

dahz as usual your own extreme views

If you think my views are extreme then we truly are screwed as I reckon I’m fairly conservative these days 🙂

– Tackling the climate emergency

– A fair and transparent democratic system

– Progressive taxation and an end to avoidance/evasion by off-shoreing.

– State ownership (but necessarily operation) of strategic utilities and infrastructure.

That’s it. That’s all I’m bothered about. If that is extreme or a ‘left wing utopia’ then we might as well give up now and let the right wing nutters do what they want.

a moderate Tory agenda

There we are. We all knew it was coming. And most of us know it is nonsense.

It’ll increase his chances of winning an election, but what then will he do?

I’m not sure it will, but hope that it does. You’re not going to join in with the calls of “he’d just be a Tory PM with a red rose” brigade are you Dazh? If so, why did you vote for him?

You’re not going to join in with the calls of “he’d just be a Tory PM with a red rose” brigade are you Dazh?

Would you be pleased if I did? If you can find any instances of me saying Starmer is a tory go for it. I guarantee you won’t find any, and never will. I don’t vote for tories.

4. Bringing politics back towards the centre.

Leaving aside the implicit claim that the centre is the right place to be a cursory look at the recent political history shows this idea to be badly flawed.
We had this under Blair. He went for the “centre”. The tories moved rightwards to distinguish themselves. Blair moved rightwards to keep the “centre”.
End result being we now have hard right policies which are considered the norm. Not quite as bad as the USA but far worse than elsewhere in Europe.
Cameron then used the tactic of keeping hard right on some things and moving towards the “centre” on others to boost his support.
To use theotherjonv bus analogy. The problem is if you keep using the bus to the next door village then the original bus gets cancelled and you then end up with a choice of that bus or another one to the next village along.

I’m amazed that someone who has apparently said so little and has no media coverage has managed to convince some posters that he is a Tory or the second coming of Blair. Where’s the manifesto they have read as I’d like to take a look?

For what? What will this approach change?

I would’ve thought that was obvious. It brings back sensibility and inspires constructive fact-driven debate.

Even if he were a hardcore Thacherite, it bodes better for all of our futures because it’s the only way we can possibly progress on to something better.

Having two political parties shouting at each other, manipulating the public through emotional and divisive topics, is only ever going to result in a constant battle and the pendulum forever swinging back and forth.

You might get what you wish for momentarily, but it will be quickly gone without any solid foundations. And it’s those foundations we need before absolutely anything else.