Securing a safe to solid floor

Installing a small home safe.

It comes with 12mm fixings, the expansion type.

The solid floor is tiled.

Should I drill a couple of pilot holes, say start with 5mm, 8mm and 12mm?

Can I use a chemical fixing with an expansion bolt?

Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated!

Just use the expansion bolts. I’ll guess that the bolts can’t be undone unless the safe is open? As for drilling, go up in stages and vacuum all the dust/debris out prior to fitting the bolts.

The bolts can only be accessed when the safe is open.

I’ve had problems with expansion bolts before, trying to fix a TV to a block wall and basically the wall was weaker than the bolts. I just couldn’t tighten without them just breaking the wall. That’s why I was thinking of using chemical.

I’d not drill too many pilot holes. 5mm and not the full length – you want the hole to be a proper 12mm tube. Chemical fix it only if you want it to never, ever be removable. Bear in mind that rawl-type chemical fixings (the glass vials of doom) rely on the bolt doing the mixing at the business end, while with an expansion fixing the bolt often doesn’t rotate that much.

Top tip: shove a straw to the bottom of the hole and then vacuum around the straw, air goes down the  straw and the debris flows up the outside.

I prefer chemical anchors for masonry / concrete of unknown quality (I’ve fitted a lot of gunsafes over the years). More accommodating of being slightly off centre or not perpendicular, which is easy to do with variable quality brick etc. And no issues with the brick crumbling and the fixing spinning. Plus you can drop your hole size significantly over traditional rawlbolts.

But very permanent and not necessary in decent material.

But very permanent and not necessary in decent material.

Surely just a matter of undoing the bolt, remove the safe and grind the bolt off?

The other issue is I don’t know how strong the sub floor is?

Looking at a kit on Ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161848538652?itmmeta=01J0NJZV4X1TQSAR6JS4GDTT4B&hash=item25aeecb61c:g:3jQAAOSwU~FWEUHQ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4L%2FFBi14wjwqTZgEXvM33piwwDg5Y8qLofWv%2FWBBgwHpWIuXh0SaXGYh1eXnu0t%2BtnUJvp%2FgrTogIjzGqFtaFxMYTfvEYIPmwU2FB5vU8Gr2LrxhB5yBji7IjeCUljIxswozAePQSUadQcAh7gDCwACQgPjOkleoA5Ax%2Bn%2F5JGMP1Cgvj4PkDQ5sxnYhQnd%2FlvtQU%2FuhJIqg6Pfwm05AI4LgnHYhC9oXveWdF8snTF9lSAxF8sY6U3SfTsBfzljNpfMczPxowMsf62S6ePBoa9TDYKfBZYTgLcY6%2FtO8AYhq%7Ctkp%3ABFBMyLL_soVk

Cheap rubbish or would it do the job?

Chemical fixings are the best IME.

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/chemical-anchors-resin-fixings/

You can either a) grind the bolt stub off but it’s messy and you won’t get a decent finish on the wall / floor again or b) stitch drill around the resin and whack it until a big lump comes out with the whole bolt (sometimes easier to then fill and paint this way).

That eBay stuff looks fine – I’ve used threaded bar / studs and the tube of stuff from Screwfix and it works a treat. It goes hard very quickly though so get everything ready before you start and fit safe over studs before the resin sets so they are centralised in holes (but don’t tighten nuts obviously).

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-styrene-free-polyester-resin-175ml/9349J?tc=EB6&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&gad_source=1&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1247848&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsYrxoZPlhgMVtZVQBh0OMQoMEAQYBiABEgJBN_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-studs-silver-m8-x-110mm-5-pack/18004

@gobuchal

Don’t get too hung up on clean holes for what you are doing. It’s not like you are fixing down critical structures . Just clean it out best you can.
Even if your hole is a little dusty you’ll still not pull them out .
A tube of Kemfix and some pre cut studs from Screwfix / Toolstation and Bobs your uncle.
if you are using an M12 stud then you want to drill a 14 dia hole.
Worry  about removal if and when you ever take it out . Grind off flush with floor. I’m assuming the thing is going to be enclosed in something so it’s probably not got to look pretty ?
My only concern would be cracking the floor tile when drilling so either start off with a tile drilling bit and finish with SDS etc . Just make sure impact is switched off until you are initially through

If you want to go full STW on it then get yourself an MClass Vacuum and a hollow sds drill bit for the win 😂

The biggest defence is making the safe difficult to get at. The easier it is to access, the better the ground anchors need to be

If only one person can get under the stairs, bent double with no room to wield tools then it won’t need that much

If you want a chemical fix with a neat finish.

Buy long M12 bolts and washers.

Drill hole in floor.

Pump in Rawl R Kem (smells epic)

Drop bolts in and moosh and screw around to get a good mix and coating. Clean up any mess.

Boom safe in, clean looking top to the stud.

Selling feature when you move house.

Best method is a concrete screw. Sorry don’t know how to add a link.
Google Rawlplug Concrete screw anchor.
Just need a masonry drill bit, tells you on the box what size to use.
Hoover out hole then screw straight in. We shear tested the screws for use in holding down furniture in prison cells. Best in test and very simple to use. Crazy strong.

Yep as above. Use a lightening bolt (concrete screw) you’ll need a tile drill to get through the tiles tho. These are cheap and good (a rare thing in the world of tile ,drills) but discontinued so you might be lucky and find one in a branch.

I used dynabolts (concrete expansion anchors) to fix a toolbox to the floor in a shared garage space years ago. Seemed good, but when we were on holiday and someone came looking for the meth our drug-dealing neighbour had hidden they managed to lever it up. Screws might be better as above.

Best option (but hardly practical) is what my stepdad did which was build a safe into the foundations of his house. Nobody would ever have found it.

First rule of safe club is not to tell anyone about safe club.

Got this done the other day.

Went well, used a track pump with the connector removed to clean the dust out of the hole.

Chemical anchors are brilliant.

I will be using them again for any heavy duty fixings in solid stuff.

Way better than those expanding bolt things.