Sea kayaking question

Is there a resource where you can see what the currents/tide flows are likely to be like in a given location?  I wouldn’t want to get washed out to sea…

If you have to ask… Wink.
But UK Rivers Guidebook have a dedicated sea forum which would be a good place to start.

Don’t tell me – go to a local tavern and find a grizzled old sea captain with a drink problem to help you?

There are a few apps that will give you tide times – I have one called ‘Tide Times’ . That’s your start point, familiarise yourself with the high and low times, then you can look at some flow information if you’re planning on leaving bays and harbours.

The ‘Windy’ app has a tidal flow layer which shows the general movement of the water but doesn’t take in localised geography that might cause eddies etc.

Local tide streams might be charted – like this for example : https://www.mhpa.co.uk/media/5d4j3wdq/tidal-stream-atlas-volume-1.pdf 

so you can work out what the water is doing at any point of the tidal range.

Also do some reading about the Rule of 12ths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_twelfths which gives you a way of working out how much change there will be during the tidal sequence.

Also, don’t forget to check the wind forecast. If wind and tide are going in the same direction as you then happy days but wind against tide is horribly choppy and paddling against both will often not be possible.

Where are you planning on paddling?

Surfline will show you the size of a tide at a given location. Which isn’t what you asked for, but does have relevance.

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/articles/category/842/tidal-streams/

This is a good website that has a lot of info for free, it’s clunky as hell, but has pretty much all info you need. I use it a lot for scoping areas, I then buy a hard copy of the Admiralty tidal stream atlas for the area im interested in

Super localised eddies and local streams also exist, and sometimes only local knowledge will be able to tell you what is going on

When you say ‘sea kayaking’  are you going to be paddling a Sit on Top on a local beach where loads of people swim and there is plenty of other water traffic in the vicinity…….or are you planning to paddle a proper sit in kayak (cockpit, spraydeck, bit tippy) along the coast where there may be fewer people and the odd headland etc….there is quite a big difference.

Don’t tell me – go to a local tavern and find a grizzled old sea captain with a drink problem to help you?

well it’s that or do the course and pass the exam https://www.scotsail-training.co.uk/rya_online_essential_navigation_course.htm

Everything you need to know in a handy format

The navionics app used to be fantastic for this but it got worse and worse over time as they realised that you could have the app rather than buy one of their units. I think it requires payment to unlock the good stuff now but if you are going often enough I suspect it’s still worth while.

The problem with a lot of the information is that it is aimed at larger vessels navigating deeper channels.

This is a good book:

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/franco-ferrero/sea-kayak-navigation/9781906095031

That book is good, got a copy on the shelf in front of me.

As said above it does depend where you are going, crossing to Orkney – its important, little paddle along the coast less of a worry.

The navigation part is actually part of the fun in planning an expedition.

Where are you planning on paddling?

We’re going to the end of the Llêyn.  I’m not planning an expedition,  but I want to know if it’s safe to do something like paddle a km along the coast to the next beach without dying.  Having seen the currents along the coast in North Pembrokeshire I am now very wary of leaving an inlet.

My council (hastings) has the tide times in their website. I use it when going for a paddle.

My recommendation would be to a sea kayak focused guide book for the area:

Welsh Sea Kayaking

This has various suggested routes that include details of tidal flow, speed and if likely to cause an issue. Its all much more relevant for kayaking than the normal chart sources which as mentioned are aimed at bigger craft further away from the coast.

If you were going to the Solent area there are detailed hour  by hour books (Winning tides is an example) showing the ‘local knowledge’.  These are aimed mainly at racing yachts but very useful for kayaking as well. I didnt manage to find a Pembrokeshire equivalent when I looked last year.

And wear a buoyancy aid 😉

That book looks great, ta.

Tide times are not a problem, by the way – there are dozens of apps for that. But what’s happening locally at any given point is what I’, interested in. Like, is there a 6kt current going to drag me along the coast faster than I can paddle.

Sea kayaking is one of those things that give me the wobbles. I’m pretty good on whitewater, and would go down many rivers on my own, when it’s usual to have at least two of you there, but sea kayaking, no way. There are so many variables to take into account, and never having done it, I dont know the first thing about staying safe. I’d always worry about capsizing, then not being able to roll the kayak up, thus having to hold onto the side of the kayak, and hope someone sees you, as my phone got wet when I capsized!
But seriously, it is a very serious hobby. Dont take it lightly – ‘just going to the next bay’. Going past a headland could take you into 2 metre swell with 40mph winds, whereas at the beach its a gentle breeze, with a few little waves.
If you really want to do it, I’d be booking up with a Compnay that does escorted tours. There are certainly a few in Dorset, I’d expect there to be a few in S. Wales.

windy has current data even in the free version.

unless you are planning on hit the tidal races then wind conditions are likely to be far more significant to you, especially on a sit on top.

We’re going to the end of the Llêyn

is there a 6kt current going to drag me along the coast faster than I can paddle.

Yes.

You are right to be wary. Look at ‘Bardsey sound’ and ‘The Tripods’ – very strong tidal streams around the end of the Llyn and around some of the headlands.

Edit to add:

Look at page 18 here:

http://nwvyc.org.uk/newsite/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/CruisingCompendium.pdf

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/wales-nw-england/aberaeron-harbour/chart/AD0BE0D50CA51/aberaeron-and-approaches

By chance I just bought several charts for around the Llyn, as you can see from the link above, flood tides run up to 5-6 knts around the end of the peninsula and through Bardsey sound in particular. That is very fast. Speeds drop off away from the constriction but are still significant.

The Welsh Sea Kayaking book is pretty good but be aware that the Scottish version contains some significant errors regarding tidal flows in the first edition. So treat with caution and double check.

A couple of years ago we paddled the Mull of Kyntyre as part of a longer trip. At the bottom of the Mull, the weather was incredible, no wind and a completely flat sea. By the time we reached the Mull an hour later, it was double overhead swell stretched out as far as you could see from the top of each crest as we raced down the tide at 8knts.

Get the book Owen H recommends. Pick the easiest paddles in it and read the advice in detail.  Repeatedly.  If on the day the conditions aren’t right, do something else.  Where there is doubt there is no doubt.

Have fun.

https://tidelines.org.uk

Try the above link Click on Sea Kayak Map.

Red circles are launch points

Aany headland with little peaks off shore is possible trouble.

Avoid Hells Mouth, Any thing at the end near Bardsey Island.

The north side of the llyn can be tricky round headlands and can be more problematic than the Abersoch side

I would recomend lauching somewhere like Pwllheli, Abersoch or Llanbedrog.

Top tips.

Dont go out in an off shore wind.

Check the weather and dont launch in more than force 3.

Bear in mind that as others have said wind against tide can cause conditions.

Tell someone where you are going

Stay close to shore.

Wear a boyancy aid and take a phone in a waterproof pouch.

Be careful and don’t blame me if it goes wrong.

pm me if you have any questions.

Have fun

unless you are planning on hit the tidal races then wind conditions are likely to be far more significant to you, especially on a sit on top.

but in essence molgrips question is where can he check if his route / area has tidal races.  The answer of a local guidebook is already up there, (if you can’t find a seakayak one a yachtsman’s pilot is a good place to look although it may not have detail for shallow bits).  Navionics etc can give you the big picture but I don’t think even the paid subscription has the amount of detail you’d hope for.

I would reiterate the advice of someone else though – book in with a guide.  They’ll not only help keep you safe but likely help you find interesting areas, see details you might miss and polish up your technique.

If you are on apple the Boatie app is excellent for what you are after. It does lots of things but it does a particularly good job of showing inshore currents at given time and date taking into account springs and neaps etc. I used a lot when living near the Solent for big swims and kayaks. Solent currently a pretty tricky and comparing to admiralty books you can buy for specific areas it was excellent. Sadly they don’t do an android version and as that’s what I’m on now I’m yet to find something as good

https://msswsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/simulator-screen-shot-iphone-13-pro-15.5-2022-07-14-at-09.11.37.png

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=52.78;-4.81;7&l=tide-currents

There’s various sea based layers on Ventusky.

Disclaimer – I have no idea how accurate they are. I have no experience of sea paddling other than messing about on a paddleboard in beach shallows. The sea is a big scary place that will kill you without even flinching.

You are right to be wary. Look at ‘Bardsey sound’ and ‘The Tripods’

This!

I’ve raced yachts around that area for >40 years and still don’t know everything about the tidal flow.  TBH I’d be surprised if an app could give you anything much more than a general idea of what’s happening at any one time.

If you’re thinking about anywhere near Bardsey (so Aberdaron area) then the tides are quite ‘significant’!
(There’s a reason why you don’t see [m]any people paddling around that area.)

Even an ebb tide going out through the sound at Abersoch will catch many out – I’ve picked up a number of people on paddleboards who simply didn’t have an idea about how it might affect them.

Generally though it’s safety in numbers – if there’s a load of people out then you’re probably OK….. if there’s no-one else around then there will be a reason why.

Oh, and for tide times you don’t need an app…. just go to the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast-and-sea/tide-tables/11

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=52.78;-4.81;7&l=tide-currents

Looked quite good on first inspection and scary bad when you zoomed in. Really interesting when looking at currents around a nation or continent but I zoomed into to Portsmouth harbour – instead of it having the water flowing in and out of the harbour it had the was flowing east to west in the harbour mouth – i.e. Gosport to Portsmouth or vice versa. So whilst it might be useful/interesting in a macro view looking at big picture stuff it’s no good at sea kayaking levels of distances.

Looked quite good on first inspection and scary bad when you zoomed in

+1000!

It is dangerously bad for the end of the Llyn:

Ventusky prediction at midday today for the area in question

That corresponds to HW Dover +2.5 hours, so the actual tidal streams would be somewhere between the 1st and 2nd diagrams in the Conwy Cruising Club pilot:

Ventusky forecasts fairly uniform southerly tidal stream at ~1knot. I can GUARANTEE that the real rates will be substantially higher, and as above, the directions will be totally different.

Incidentally, the wiggly waves and whirlpools on the diagrams above aren’t for aesthetic effect – they are specific warnings for conditions that are a danger to full sized vessels. The area is similar to Jack Sound, or Ramsey Sound in Pembrokshire in terms of Needing To Know What You’re Doing.

The following is a description of the tides from ‘Cruising Anglesey and Adjoining Waters’ posted in the desire to try and ensure you are as well informed as possible:

Windguru Lite is free and gives wind and current directions and speeds. Used by every windsurf centre I’ve ever been to.

Savvy navvy is an excellent sailing app covering tides, weather and automated routing. They also have a version for kayaking which presumably doesn’t involve tacking upwind or doing more than a couple of knots / metres per second

If you get the Welsh Sea Kayaking book it has a very easy Pwllheli to Criccieth paddle in it.  It tells you hazards to look out for and issues to be aware of.  We’ve done it and it’s a nice chilled out paddle in the correct conditions.

Oh and we use Windy and the onshore forecast for weather/wave information.