Screaming brat

it is also worth bearing in mind that dispite what all the idiot women in varying organisations from medical people down say there appears as far as I can tell to be no unequivocal evidence that breats is best

It’s odd; neither I nor the midwives are suggesting that bottle feeding is a failure (we’ve given breastfeeding a damn good go, but the wee one isn’t interested, it seems), but my wife has worked herself into a tizz nevertheless. God bless peer group pressure.

6h sleep last night (in stretches) first time we’ve had a decent amount of sleep since she came home.

Andy

The more I read these threads, the more convinced I am that ignoring the advice of absolutely everyone seems to be the way to go 😐

6 hours is really very good for a baby of that age.

Hopefully your wife will start to calm down as well as your baby starts to settle down.

Looking for some Dadsnet hive-mind reassurance. At home with our week old first child, who is as good as gold all day, but then screams and screams all night. Can anyone assure me that a) this is normal, b) that it will pass, and c) what the likely time frame is? We can’t find any obvious cause for this; she’s much more chilled when held but is too little to understand that we can’t do this all the time. We are both threaders and exhausted; community midwife suggests things might be better by the weekend. Anyone able to advise?

Haven’t read all the other posts but from my exeperience:

a) Ours didn’t do it, but I know others that did, and worse than yours sounds.

b and c) Ours seemed to change to different patterns a few times, notably at about 3 months.

I’m sure your community midwife/health visitor knows the score better than most. But just keep trying different things. I found that a bouncy chair worked well with our first one, who went through a bit of a period of not sleeping (though just crying, not screaming) and I used to sit doing stuff on the computer (in the middle of the night) whilst rocking the chair with my foot. You are just finding out that having kids is more difficult than you can imagine before you have them yourself. OTOH, chances are everything will be fine, and should you have another you’ll find it much easier second time around.

On the failure thing my wife says she had a breeze with breastfeeding in baby was healthy and hungry and latched well. No thrush or mastitis or any of the other things that can go wrong in the first few weeks and it was still incredibly hard and she got close to stopping several times. So if you aren’t having that kind of easy ride you definitely aren’t ‘failing’ to give your baby a bottle instead/as well. And as theotherjonv says formula is still a really good food for babies. And feeling guilty won’t do your baby or your wife any favours.

Sky Sports and watch the Ashes, if you’re going to have a sleepless night then you might as well make some good of it. I did this in 2000 with MFL Junior on one of the odd occasions when he misbehaved, took us downstairs and “we” watched the Sydney Olympics. Well, he slept in his bouncer, I watched the games.

In terms of topping up a breast fed baby, good advice is to avoid a teat, local breastfeeding midwife says to use a cup, as this mimics the action of sucking a nipple – makes the baby work for the milk rather than a teat which is apparently too easy & will make the baby lazy & less willing to breast feed.

We’re 8weeks in and Bangin On jnr ‘still’ doesn’t have much of a routine..

Getting him to nap thru the day is virtually impossible unless in the sling (our dog loves it, he sees the sling and gets totally happy as he thinks he’s off out for a walk).. Junior just wants held and doesn’t go to sleep otherwise. Not just held but walked around and jiggled.

I would totally, totally recomend a ‘Karri-Me’ sling, you can just get on with your life and your high maintenance jnr can sleep and give you peace while you get on with your life

Mrs Bangin On has suffered with the breast feeding but is finally finding it easier and the latching on has finally sorted itself out; it’s just a tough thing to get thru I think..

I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way to bring them up from scratch, just do what stresses you out least and get on with it.

watch the Ashes

Scots, so don’t understand cricket at all 😛

Andy

Maybe I can put a smile on your face with these few words of wisdom that were passed onto me……

I hope you have both prepared for this….

FOLLOW THESE 14 SIMPLE TESTS BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO HAVE CHILDREN.

Test 1 – Preparation

Women: To prepare for pregnancy:-

1. Put on a dressing gown and stick a beanbag down the front.
2. Leave it there.

3. After 9 months remove 5% of the beans.

Men: To prepare for children:-

1. Go to a local chemist, tip the contents of your wallet onto the
counter and tell the pharmacist to help himself
2. Go to the supermarket. Arrange to have your salary paid directly to
their head office.
3. Go home. Pick up the newspaper and read it for the last time.

Test 2 – Knowledge

Find a couple who are already parents and berate them about their
methods of discipline, lack of patience, appallingly low tolerance
levels and how they have allowed their children to run wild. Suggest
ways in which
they might improve their child’s sleeping habits, toilet training, table
manners and overall behavior.
Enjoy it. It will be the last time in your life that you will have all
the answers.

Test 3 – Nights

To discover how the nights will feel:

1. Walk around the living room from 5pm to 10pm carrying a wet bag
weighing approximately 4 – 6kg, with a radio turned to static (or some
other obnoxious sound) playing loudly.
2. At 10pm, put the bag down, set the alarm for midnight and go to
sleep.
3. Get up at 11pm and walk the bag around the living room until 1am.
4. Set the alarm for 3am.
5. As you can’t get back to sleep, get up at 2am and make a cup of tea.
6. Go to bed at 2.45am.
7. Get up again at 3am when the alarm goes off.
8. Sing songs in the dark until 4am.
9. Put the alarm on for 5am. Get up when it goes off.
10. Make breakfast.

Keep this up for 5 years. LOOK CHEERFUL.

Test 4 – Dressing Small Children

1. Buy a live octopus and a string bag.
2. Attempt to put the octopus into the string bag so that no arms hang
out.
Time Allowed: 5 minutes.

Test 5 – Cars

1. Forget the BMW. Buy a practical 5-door MPV.
2. Buy a chocolate ice cream cone and put it in the glove compartment.
Leave it there.
3. Get a coin. Insert it into the CD player.
4. Take a box of chocolate biscuits; mash them into the back seat.
5. Run a garden rake along both sides of the car.
Test 6 – Going For a Walk

Wait
Go out the front door
Come back in again
Go out
Come back in again
Go out again
Walk down the front path
Walk back up it
Walk down it again
Walk very slowly down the road for five minutes.
Stop, inspect minutely and ask at least 6 questions about every piece of
used chewing gum, dirty tissue and dead insect along the way.
Retrace your steps
Scream that you have had as much as you can stand until the neighbours
come out and stare at you.
Give up and go back into the house.
You are now just about ready to try taking a small child for a walk.

Test 7
Repeat everything you say at least 5 times.

Test 8 – Grocery Shopping

1. Go to the local supermarket. Take with you the nearest thing you can
find to a pre-school child – a fully grown goat is excellent. If you
intend to have more than one child, take more than one goat.
2. Buy your weekly groceries without letting the goat(s) out of your
sight.
3. Pay for everything the goat eats or destroys.

Until you can easily accomplish this, do not even contemplate having
children.

Test 9 – Feeding a 1 year-old

1. Hollow out a melon
2. Make a small hole in the side
3. Suspend the melon from the ceiling and swing it side to side
4. Now get a bowl of soggy cornflakes and attempt to land them into the
swaying melon while pretending to be an aeroplane.
5. Continue until half the cornflakes are gone.
6. Tip the rest into your lap, making sure that a lot of it falls on the
floor.
Test 10 – TV

1. Learn the names of every character from the Wiggles, Barney,
Teletubbies and Disney.
2. Watch nothing else on television for at least 5 years.

Test 11 – Mess

Can you stand the mess children make? To find out:
1. Smear peanut butter onto the sofa and jam onto the curtains
2. Hide a fish behind the stereo and leave it there all summer.
3. Stick your fingers in the flowerbeds and then rub them on clean
walls. Cover the stains with crayon. How does that look?
4. Empty every drawer/cupboard/storage box in your house onto the floor
& leave it there.

Test 12 – Long Trips with Toddlers

1. Make a recording of someone shouting ‘Mummy’ repeatedly. Important
Notes: No more than a 4 second delay between each Mummy. Include
occasional crescendo to the level of a supersonic jet.
2. Play this tape in your car, everywhere you go for the next 4 years.
You are now ready to take a long trip with a toddler.

Test 13 – Conversations
1. Start talking to an adult of your choice.
2. Have someone else continually tug on your shirt hem or shirt sleeve
while playing the Mummy tape listed above.
You are now ready to have a conversation with an adult while there is a
child in the room.

Test 14 – Getting ready for work

1. Pick a day on which you have an important meeting.
2. Put on your finest work attire.
3. Take a cup of cream and put 1 cup of lemon juice in it
4. Stir
5. Dump half of it on your nice silk shirt
6. Saturate a towel with the other half of the mixture
7. Attempt to clean your shirt with the same saturated towel
8. Do not change (you have no time).
9. Go directly to work

You are now ready to have children.
Good luck and enjoy.

Muke – thanks for that. Cheered us both up.

Had another night of screaming ?why. Wife has now fallen out with wife & sister who have been long on (un)helpful advice but short on practical help, despite living locally (my parents 250 miles away). We keep telling ourselves this can only get better.

Off to local town centre for an outing in a minute.

Andy

Eek…
With regards to ‘helpful advice’; we found it’s often difficult to listen to ‘we know best’ relatives/friends who basically tell you what SHOULD be happening, especially when you are absolutely stressed out/tired etc.
“Well, you want to be feeding him then put him down to sleep whilst you cook your tea, don’t you..” Is NOT advice! It’s stating the ideal!

We tried to have a routine (we used ‘the baby whisperer’s E.A.S.Y one) but accepted that like a [medical] guideline, it’s a guide rather than a set of instructions that MUST be followed. At times it worked, at times it didn’t. Eventually we got into our own little routine, which I’m sure you guys will too.

Another important thing to consider is that when you feel like bashing the little git’s skull in, put it down in it’s bed and walk away. Shut the door, turn off the monitor, and accept that leaving it to cry for (another) 10 minutes is better for it’s survival (and yours) than spending another 10 minutes with it! Seriously – it’s not a sign of weakness to feel at your wit’s end – it’s a sign of being a parent!

It does end with good news though – some of our NCT group who’s kids slept like dreams from an early age, are now having real trouble getting them to bed etc. Swings and roundabouts innit…..

DrP

What Muke said, minus Barney on the TV. Don’t ever go there.

Our first child cried so hard and so much that she ended up with an umbilical hernia! Bless!

When she was born she came out fighting and I can remember thinking to myself that she looked thoroughly jarred off when I put her first nappy on her as she was really giving big crying and her arms and legs were flailing all over the place.

it is also worth bearing in mind that dispite what all the idiot women in varying organisations from medical people down say there appears as far as I can tell to be no unequivocal evidence that breats is best

Yes there is. There’s evidence (published in proper scientific journals*) that breastfeeding massively reduces incidence of cot death in the first year (i think it was roughly a third less deaths), and also reduces the chances of illnesses requiring hospital treatment in the first year. All from studies where they controlled for class, employment status, drinking, smoking and other obvious lifestyle factors. Oh and in western countries, not third world countries (where formula is obviously bad due to poor water quality).

The world health organisation recommends it until the age of one if possible, even in western countries and they are hardly a bunch of idiot women in various organisations, rather they’re a bunch of medical experts who know quite a lot.

Obviously some people physically can’t do it, or don’t get good enough support to be able to do it, but to say that there is no evidence in favour of it is just plain wrong.

Joe

*no references because I’m on my phone and they’re not handy, but they’re quite easy to find on pubmed.

Echo the above, HOWEVER…..

I HATE HATE HATE the hardcore, pushy ‘breast is best’ women that frequent the NCT classes, who spout such drivel that forces some mothers into crisis and despair if the little’un in a terror in latching on.
yes, breast is best, but if you’re ill in hospital, receiving life saving medication that can pollute the breast milk, or simply cannot feed your baby and he’s becoming hungrier and hungrier, then I do believe formula will be a better option than thrusting babe’s face into a bleeding nipple whislt you cry, feeling like a failure (Real example questions given by some of the mums in our NCT class there, for which the BIB witch said you should persevere with breast feeding….).

In order of preference:
1 – breast milk
2 – formula milk
3 – no milk

Obvious, but she just wouldn’t get it!!

DrP

And…..breathe………

I HATE HATE HATE the hardcore, pushy ‘breast is best’ women that frequent the NCT classes

I agree; however, in defence of the NCT, our instructor was sensible, and also discussed the fact that a good proportion of the assembled company would end up with an operative delivery of one sort or another regardless of what the birth plan said. I’m not going to pretend the classes were completely free from tongue-chewing moments, especially when analgesia and GAs were being discussed (I am an anaesthetist & Mrs RBIT is a physician – we’d decided not to let slip so as not to undermine the instructor), but they were much more realistic about things than we’d been led to believe. And socially it was good, which is why we went.

Andy

Oh, I wasn’t saying the NCT classes were bad – far from it. More the BIB women who visited ours (and other local groups) who had a frightening fundamentalist view about breast feeding!

In our group of 8 couples, there were 3 Dr-Dr couples. Somehow we sussed each other out in about 6 minutes…go figure! Credit for keeping schtum!
The missus is an anaesthetist, and I often felt the brunt of her fury in the car on the way back… “If you refuse a spinal, then want it at the 11th hour, no-one’s going to bloody do it no matter how much you cry….” Apparently 😉

DrP

If she really wants to carry on bfing, I suggest a call to one of these’
National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212
National Childbirth Trust
0300 330 0771
Breastfeeding Network
0300 100 0210
La Leche League
0845 1202918
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers 08444 122949

they will be much much better at bfing advice than the midwives are as they are more specially trained.

Yes there is. There’s evidence (published in proper scientific journals*) that breastfeeding massively reduces incidence of cot death in the first year (i think it was roughly a third less deaths), and also reduces the chances of illnesses requiring hospital treatment in the first year. All from studies where they controlled for class, employment status, drinking, smoking and other obvious lifestyle factors

so there are unequivocal correlations, that doesnt constitute unequivocal evidence, unless someone comes out and describes a mechanism and than proves it the best is best brigade are not right.

anyway babies, just as your about to put them on ebay after 6 weeks they start smiling just to mess with your mind 😀

Kids = Hard work, my boy is 6 and he gets up at 6-6.30 every morning and has the ability to wind me up when he chooses to. That said I wouldn’t change a thing as he’s a great boy and the laughs out weigh the bad times.

Joking aside my younger brother became a Dad at the beginning of November and he and his wife are going through the same as you. They grab sleep when they can etc. It is tough but you will come out the other side. If it really is getting on top of you speak to your Midwife and go and see your doctor as they can help.

Wait till they get their hands on a DS or Wii and the competition starts with their friends. Boys probably worse than girls for this.

ThanksDrP for your comments.

@Joe. When my wife went through this I read a lot of articles (not scientific journals, more public health info) and I wasn’t swayed that much. For two reasons (and now really risking opening a can of worms)

Things like the cot death statistic. Sids is so rare it turns from extremely low to virtually unheard of. And I don’t think the stats were normalised to consider the type of mothers who ‘can’t be arsed’ to breastfeed’ are also the ones who ignore the advice to allow no smoking in the house etc…… which is a significant increased factor.

Second; it’s nigh impossible for the manufacturers of formula (or researchers funded by) to publish data without being shouted down for being interested parties. I don’t think they get a fair hearing as a result.

then I do believe formula will be a better option than thrusting babe’s face into a bleeding nipple whislt you cry, feeling like a failure

It’s about managing the experience.

The issue is that despite all the info on BF there is still so much that you are not told – important information that mothers need to know.

16 days in with our twin girls, we’ve had a couple of wakeful nights but all in all pretty good so far, they are getting breast supplemented with formula as they were fairly small.

don’t know if anybody has suggested it so far, but have you tried swaddling the wee man, works for ours when they are awake and we want to sleep.

Good on you, it’s a great feeling to be a dad. All those joys of life awaiting – Peppa Pig, Ben and Holly’s Little Kingdom, Waybaloo, Big Cook Little Cook, 64 Zoo Lane, you name it. And then you’ll realise you have a little Lola (see Charlie and Lola) at home for whom “pink milk is my favourite and my best”.
Enjoy! It does get easier a bit after 3 years.

Uncle(daddy)Fred – how are you doing with your girls then? Ours are nearly 19 months now – wonderful fun times 🙂

don’t know if anybody has suggested it so far, but have you tried swaddling the wee man, works for ours when they are awake and we want to sleep

Tried that; she doesn’t seem bothered and wriggles out anyway (likes to sleep with her hands either side of her head, which looks dead cute). The last couple of days she’s refusing to be put down – sleeps quite happily on people, but screams after <30 min in her basket. Inevitably, this has been timed with my return to work (from where I am posting this) so Mrs RBIT is having a bit of a rough time. My turn tomorrow/Mon nights.

All those joys of life awaiting – Peppa Pig, Ben and Holly’s Little Kingdom, Waybaloo, Big Cook Little Cook, 64 Zoo Lane, you name it.

Mrs RBIT has a six and three year old nephews, so forewarned. As long as it’s not the Wiggles, I can cope with most things 😛

Andy

Andy we’re going through exactly the same.

Amelia sleeps on me, but screams in bed. Having spoken to the health visitor, NCT & midwife the consensus seems to be that she is cluster feeding at night and is just plain hungry all evening and night. Lynsey is persevering with feeding her and it seems to be working but it’s very distressing to try to get a screaming baby to feed.

Hang in there, you’re not alone!

G

Andy – it’s hard when they get clingy like that…
One bit of advice we read/were told/have learnt, is that babies CAN learn routine, but you need to really persevere with it.

(I’m not claining to be a super parent, far from it, but I’m just stating what worked with ours…)

Ours was pretty clingy, and when he cried we’d rush in, pick him up, cuddle him etc… To tease him out of this, we were told (well, read it) that at night you don’t want to ‘over comfort them’. That is ,as SOON as they settle, pop them back down. You’ll prob be back again within 4 minutes at first, but (with ours) the 4 minutes turned to 10 turned to 30 etc. He realised that yes, he’ll get comforted, but it’s NOT cuddle time!! Might work with your little’un?

How many nights you doing?? We’re mental here,,,, :-/

DrP

DrP – we’ll give that a go – thanks.

Two nights (normal rota in abeyance due to it being festive season); oddly quiet (on for theatres; ICM rota separate & presumably OK as well as we get asked to do outreach if they’re busy, and we didn’t get called).

Andy

The Wiggles really do grate on the nerves.

Ben and Holly’s Little Kingdom is quite funny. Keep seeing the gnome at the moment.

“Would you like me to sing?”

“No!”

“I’ll take that as a yes then!”

Gigglebiz is the best. ‘Hello’ I’m Arthur Sleep’ 🙂

And plenty of eye candy on CBeebies too 8)

My youngest slept next to us in a dropside cot until she could crawl in with us and then she slept either with us or in her cot (which didn’t get in the way of mutual aerobics with MrsHeathen – you’ve just gotta take your chances when they come). We gave her her own room at about 18mths/2yrs and she was fine going to it. The only trouble we had with her was colic. She was also bottle fed. She’s ahead of her peers (which makes me laugh because there are some real pressure-parents at her nursery), happy, and pretty balanced for a three year old.

She’s my third and what I’ve found is that happy kids are the best ones to have. If you deny them stuff during the first couple of years because of some spurious regime then it’s a bad idea; they learn, “No,” pretty well from two onwards and that’s the best time to do it. Some self-appointed experts are just control freaks with issues. Don’t listen to anyone, me included, just listen to your child and your missus.

Make your child comfortable and happy. Try your damnedest not to let them wind you up because they can smell hostility a mile off – that’s no screaming brat, that’s your actual, happened on Earth rebirth. Look after ’em.

Update: crisis point reached this afternoon; went to local DGH where mother is catching up on sleep & baby is sleeping soundly for the first time since we got home following a dose of infant Gaviscon for probable reflux (hence the screaming every time she got put down). Hopefully things are on the up now…

Andy