Scottish politics thread

“I did like the comment someone made on how a minority govt would work. Maybe pass fewer new laws and concentrate on governing well with what we have?”

Oh, yes, and the comment that the Gender Bill was stupid, and shouldnt have been brought in. (well, not in those words, but that was the sentiment).

SNP, Tories and Labour won’t work with each other – especially when there’s another Scottish and another UK general election next year. It would be months of infighting without any time to achieve anything. So…SNP minority government…?

The other side of the same coin is why I can see why Humza wouldn’t want to hang around and just get a kicking continuously until the next defeat. Its a bit like the Sunak position, except the Tories have better unity and Sunak is more arrogant (and may even think he can salvage it).

Maybe pass fewer new laws and concentrate on governing well with what we have?

Implementation by the executive is even harder than legislation by Parliament. You actually have to have a plan and consistency and support. What can you achieve in less than a year without political capital in the middle of a polyshambles? Obviously it would be your duty to try but I wouldn’t be overconfident.

Wouldnt the issue of assisted dying be something that could well be addressed by a citizens assembly well informed by experts in the field òr even a second chamber?

No. Assisted dying is a moral question on which everyone is equally qualified, not merely some kind of technical question that can be settled by experts. The “technocrats” work by separating issues into two categories: the things that you believe are ideological and political and messy, but the things I believe are technical and not open to challenge.

And this stuff about “citizens assemblies” is a weird Rory Stewart hobby horse. It’s intending to circumvent the democratic processes and democratically-elected parties that aren’t producing the outcomes he wants. The UK (and Scotland) doesn’t need more levels of political discourse and representation, and voters don’t want them.

No. Assisted dying is a moral question on which everyone is equally qualified

I would like to see all Govts in this country to be doing their very best for the elderly and disabled who want to live before they start to discussing legislation about how they’re going to die. So far they all seem to be failing that very low bar.

This is the problem with having the main opposition being branch offices of the Westminster parties.

For the Scottish Parliament to work properly there has to be the ability to compromise which is made much more difficult when the bosses get on the phone and say, ‘You know that legislation you’ve spent 2 years working on? Yeah, we don’t like it.  Ditch it.’

Labour and Tories in Scotland need to detach themselves from the Westminster parties.  You can be unionists without being lapdogs.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24284455.live-humza-yousaf-considers-standing-down-first-minister/

Alba reaction
Alba MP Kenny MacAskill told the BBC his party’s only MSP Ash Regan has been back in contact with the first minister.

He said it would be an “absurd situation” for Yousaf to resign when there was an “opportunity for the SNP to get back on the independence track” through a pact with Alba.

However, he said the Alba Party were not there to simply “prop up” the SNP.

Alba suddenly not feeling quite so cocky?  Wonder why…

Alba definitely overplayed their hand. Crowing that Regan was the most important person in Scottish politics or whatever it was Salmond was boasting about certainly made the SNP think again.

Can’t quite get over the degree of ineptitude Yousaf has displayed. Sacking the Greens certainly showed’em who’s Boss.

Can’t quite get over the degree of ineptitude Yousaf has displayed. Sacking the Greens certainly showed’em who’s Boss.

I suspect he got the idea in his head that if the Greens ended the BHA he would be seen as weak.

I’m not sure if that would have actually been the case.  The Greens were (and still are) in a state of civil war between the leadership and the membership.  Let them get on with it, fall apart, and sweep up the disgruntled ex-members.

so will we see an election? Presumably SNP still end up largest party after than – but with a smaller number of seats… so who will work together ?

SNP will lose seats for sure – and almost certainly enough that SNP and Greens together cannot form a government.  Alba will get no seats.  Labour / lib dem / tory will not work with the SNP

We will end up with a labour / tory government.  Its the only way the numbers will add up and labours tribal hatred of the SNP will lead them into this mistake.  Like with Edinburgh council they will try to dress it up as a labour minority government.  This is what labour have done in many councils such is their hatr5ed of the SNP that they would rather work with the tories than with fellow social democrats

It would put Labour in a difficult spot from a UK perspective too, fighting a Westminster GE against the Tories while power sharing at Holyrood. And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?

Alba suddenly not feeling quite so cocky?  Wonder why…

Salmond wont care. He got the attention which to him is far more important than Scottish Nationalism or whats best for Scotland.

Have to say I’m quite enjoying this soap opera/clusterf*** the SNP have brought upon themselves. Coalition politics at its very best. And to think many people want to replicate it across the rest of the UK!

Alba suddenly not feeling quite so cocky? Wonder why…

Realising they do not want an election as they will win no seats?

And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?

Not if there is an election now

I would like to see all Govts in this country to be doing their very best for the elderly and disabled who want to live before they start to discussing legislation about how they’re going to die. So far they all seem to be failing that very low bar.

The health of the general population is of course the priority for anyone supporting assisted dying, which will benefit society both for the patients and those around them.

Not if there is an election now

I thought it was a fixed, 5-yearly schedule now?

Surely that clock would be reset if there is one now?  ie itys five years from the previous election

Maybe. I thought the calendar had been fixed as a result of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act (so as not to have any dual elections) but that was, of course, repealed so it’s all up for grabs again?

“And then there will be another Holyrood GE in 2026 too?”
“Not if there is an election now”

According to Wings Over Scotland who has a good track record the Scotland Act means any election will just be for a parliament to run up to 2026.

@Scotroutes  The fixed term parliament act and repeal was Westminster elections.  Holyrood elections under the Scotland Act.

Wings does not have a good track record.  A conspiracy theorist and utter diddy.

And to think many people want to replicate it across the rest of the UK!

Yeah, Westminster is definitely what the Scottish Parliament should try to emulate.

The fixed term parliament act and repeal was Westminster elections.  Holyrood elections under the Scotland Act.

Just had a look. The Holyrood elections were originally every 4 years, but were changed to every 5 so they couldn’t overlap with Westminster. That was the source of my confusion. So, every 5 years regardless of any intervening election.

Both the Gender reform act; and liam McArthers asssisted dying bill actually show Holyrood in a good light in that they were / are well considered compromises based on a lot of debate and expert opinion – not the results of a single parties ideology.  Both have / had cross party support.

It would be really stupid to have one now and another in 26.  I cannot believe that was the intention when the act was written.

A  quick Google says that

Any extraordinary general election would be in addition to the ordinary general elections, unless held less than six months before the due date of an ordinary general election, in which case it would supplant it.

Scotland Act 1998 (legislation.gov.uk)

Yeah, Westminster is definitely what the Scottish Parliament should try to emulate.

Well you don’t see the UK govt collapsing because of fringe issues like gender recognition.

And to think many people want to replicate it across the rest of the UK!

As opposed to the ‘strong and stable’ government with a huge majority delivered by a minority of the vote, by a system only used in Europe by Westminster and Belarus? 🤔

Listening to the radio 4 reporting this morning, I hadn’t realised how godbothery Scottish politics was.

I bet Rishi’s quite chufffed to have some competition for the most inept and clueless leader of a UK political party 😂

I hadn’t realised how godbothery Scottish politics was.

Its not in general.  Its just in the last couple of years god botherers have got into positions of power.

Well you don’t see the UK govt collapsing because of fringe issues like gender recognition.

Not to mention irrelevancies like environmental targets.

Yes, instead you see the Tories able to do pretty much whatever they want because 30% of the population agree with them.  And no one can do anything about it.

Thanks, but I’ll stick with minority governments and coalitions.

Bruce – don’t feed the troll

Not to mention irrelevancies like environmental targets.

Is a target that’s completely unachievable relevant?

don’t feed the troll

You don’t think the unstable nature of coalition politics is a topical issue when it has caused the collapse of a government?

god botherers

genuine question, why is it acceptable to use this kind of language to describe religious folks? If someone used a derogatory term to describe for example a trans person they’d (rightly) receive a hammering and most likely a ban.

its typical stw hypocrisy..

For the Scottish Parliament to work properly there has to be the ability to compromise which is made much more difficult when the bosses get on the phone and say, ‘You know that legislation you’ve spent 2 years working on? Yeah, we don’t like it.  Ditch it.’

labours tribal hatred of the SNP

This is the sound of feet stamping about the fact that opposition parties have the temerity to be in opposition to the SNP. “But why won’t they just agreeeeee?” Apparently when everyone does what the SNP says, it’s compromise, but when the SNP does what its voters instructed it to do, it’s…what?

There is plenty of scope for compromise between nationalist and unionist parties. The SNP just hasn’t cut a deal to get what it wants. This is just another around-the-houses way of blaming Teh Unionists for the SNP’s lack of success in government and making everything about independence, even when the subject matter is clearly devolved and would be handled by the same parliament in the same way even in an independence Scotland.

This is the sound of feet stamping about the fact that opposition parties have the temerity to be in opposition to the SNP. “But why won’t they just agreeeeee?”

Actually, on GRR there was cross party support after years of negotiation and compromise.  Only the Tories opposed it and even they were in favour when Ruth Davidson was in charge.

Tories blocked it.  Then Labour said, ‘Actually, we don’t like it either.’

It’s a perfect example of the Scottish Parliament acting in the way it was designed only for the main offices to jump in and have a temper tantrum.

It’s amazing the number of people who feel the need to comment on this thread despite having obviously paid very little attention to Scottish politics recently.

PCA – its really not the SNP that is the cause of the non co operation.  Its labour mainly and their complete refusal to work with the SNP anywhere any time instead simply attempting to wreck everything automatically opposing pretty much everything the SNP suggest. Labour have been punished at the polls for this attitude giving the SNP 16 years of power and labour 16 years on the sidelines.

We have had labour in Scotland opposing issues like minimum alcohol pricing even tho it was london labour policy

I used to be a labour voter but since they lost power in Scotland and behaved so badly I have stopped voting for them.  Its the bain principle and their only policy is “SNP baaaaaaad”

I wonder if the SNP’s decision making recently has any relation to the imminent changes coming in UK politics – it’s been relatively easy for the SNP to contrast themselves against the Tories for 14 years. I wonder if there’s a fear in SNP circles that it may not be as easy with a Labour (in my opinion Labour in name only) UK government round the corner.

SNP support/goodwill is waning – but what will be interesting is whether there is still real appetite for Independence in the wider populace in say 10 years time.

I really want to see proper cross party work in the Scottish Parliament again – I’m no SNP supporter but I think TJ has a point that Labour hasn’t done itself any favours in Scotland with their refusal to talk to the Government in order to move things that matter on for the greater good. The SNP and Labour should have more in common than not – but that divisive referendum campaigning a decade ago did a lot of damage to Labour in Scotland, and we all are paying the price.

Is a target that’s completely unachievable relevant?

It wasn’t unachievable when it was created.