Another former Sheffield resident, I just used to park on another street.

I also used to go to work by public transport. Always seemed quite decent to me. Better than driving.

Interesting thread. I’m 42 yr old and live in Tooting, London. I have not owned a car for 22 years and love not having a car. I travel all around the UK often. I use trains a lot and tend to put my bike on the train. I am also a big kitesurfer and put my kit on the train and walk at the other end to the beach, it’s a pretty small country after all!. I’m saddened by the entitlement of most drivers to think they can drive and park anywhere. It’s not hard “not owning” a car.

I think it can be hard at times. I remember when my children were 1 and 3 years old, getting on and off the bus with one child on my shoulder, a folded buggy, the hand of the elder child and trying to pay our fare. But, most of the time a car is not necessary and the examples people give of things they could not do without a car are ridiculous. Day to day a car can make life a lot easier; it’s just the considerable downsides are well hidden. Thinking of those times, it’s similar to disposable nappies; people I know thought we were crazy for using terry nappies – but unless we do what we can, things will only get worse.

I’m rambling now, so I’ll stop.

I can only see it getting worse as new cars just keep getting wider and wider and now even make a big old station wagon look small.
Maybe ban wide cars.

Well ~Danny – I looked on google streetview at the roads you mention. Many of them are plenty wide enough for a car each side and one to drive down the middle – and oddly enough many cars parked completely on the road. Some of the smaller roads had pavement parkers – and yes – not enough room for a wheelchair, a blind person with a dog or an elderly person who needs a steadying hand to walk on the pavements let alone a double buggy.

Also oddly enough loads of room not far away to park.

So that is a classic example of car drivers convenience in parking near their house completely outweighing the rights of vulnerable people to walk safely down the street

Round by me we have some very small streets where the pavement are completely blocked by cars forcing you to walk up the street – where I have been hooted at by car drivers for daring to walk up the street ( dunno where i was supposed to go)- and funnily enough with a few hundred yards are literally hundreds of spaces to park

Wrightyson – you cannot have it both ways – ts either crowded urban areas where parking is at a premium or out in the sticks where parking is easy.

I’m lucky we have grass to the side of our drive that I will be flagging for my lads car.

This is not the solution either imho and measures will need to be taken to prevent the massive increase in people doing this, as has been suggested above. Water run off is an issue, leading to increased flooding iirc. It takes a parking space available to all and restricts who can use it, causing an even greater parking problem. Also, it looks terrible – small gardens that used to have flowerbeds and bushes etc now littered with bloody ugly cars. Those of us who walk from A to B if they are anything like me, prefer to do so in more pleasant surroundings.

@tjagain. You actually need to visit them to get a real sense. None of the roads behind Hillsborough Stadium for example are nearly wide enough.

Many of the nearby roads you mention have heavy parking restrictions and around the Woodseats area its resident’s only parking so you can’t just rock yo on the nice wide street a couple of roads down.

But anyway – to wrap up. I absolutely agree car ownership is too high. No doubt about it and it needs to be much much lower for all manner of reasons. But as I say without a viable alternative my car isn’t going anywhere

I also agree that it’s easy enough for an individual to park elsewhere and walk a bit although even in individual cases this isn’t always possible.

However to tackle car ownership will take far more than banning parking on pavements and when you look at the numbers as a whole and not just addressing a specific person – there’s too many cars to fit in too few streets which are wide enough to have them parked entirely on the road.

Hello.

Just dropping in to add to what I’m going to assume is a respectful and well thought out discussion.

Here’s what I’d like to say: I hope that the Scottish Govt will be penalising the people who park on the pavement in my village by vapourising their cars.

Bye!

However to tackle car ownership will take far more than banning parking on pavements

Surely this measure was not brought in to tackle car ownership, but to tackle the hugely antisocial problem of pavement parking.

Yeah tbh I couldn’t give a **** if they stacked the antisocial cars parked on the pavement on top of each other in cube form and made them all walk.

So long as I don’t have to push my daughter out into the road unnecessarily/or watch someone else’s son/daughter wheel their wheel chair out into the road.

Danny – so what about those disabled, the blind, the elderly, young mum ( or dad) with the double buggy? Do they have to be put in danger just so People can park near their house? Loads of examples of blocked pavements where a blind person or a wheelchair user could not get past

And I checked carefully – plenty of roads with no parking restriction around there that are wide enough.

Tj you’re just arguing (not like you 🙄) for the sake of arguing now. Danny has given a load of examples of tight streets yet in your wisdom you know them and the area better than him, the bloke lived there ffs. Theres too many cars, some people are selfish dicks, I think that’s how most car/driving threads end up on here and it’s a pretty sound conclusion.

wrightyson – and two other people that lived there say different – and its actually an area I know.

I still want to know why in your and his book the convenience of car drivers trumps the safety of the vulnerable

I never once stated that. Anybody who blocks a footpath is a dick. People who bump up the kerb to make life easier are doing just that, but you’d have all their cars crushed for doing so. That’s where I’m at and will stay at

Yes you have tho wrightyson. By saying people should be allowed to park cars on pavements you are saying the safety of the vulnerable does not matter compared to the convenience of car drivers. Parking on pavements blocks pavements.

Edit – you defended Dannys position where the photos posted clearly show pavements that are blocked to vulnerable users.

Meanwhile despite the talk from Holyrood, bus travel down 10 pecent car travel up 5 percent. People may talk green but the convenience of the car can’t be matched by public transport.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43225271

That’s fine it’s Convienant. So long as they don’t park on the pavement.

It should not be Convienant at the expense of those who walk by choice or necessity.

If folk applied rule 1 to their parking we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

The problem is no one has nipped it in the bud and now it’s an epidemic.

As shown by this thread people feel that parking is a God given right at the expense of anything….and that’s on a cycling forum. What chance have we got against a street of gammons who believe the space out side their house is theirs.

Meanwhile despite the talk from Holyrood, bus travel down 10 pecent car travel up 5 percent. People may talk green but the convenience of the car can’t be matched by public transport.

Generally because bus services are a bit shite, because they know there’s a whole tranche of society who will not be separated from their cars, so there’s no bloody point putting loads of services on…..

you are saying the safety of the vulnerable does not matter

No I’m not, See the bit where I said people who “block” pavements are dicks.

There’s no reasoning with you so I can’t be arsed. And just so you know I’ll continue to pull up on the kerb without blocking the pavent where 25 years of driving experience has led me to believe it’s needed.

Needed? For your convenience others must suffer? Very nice. Its never “needed” its only ever for convenience and yes you are doing and saying that – you agreed with Danny when his pictures clearly show pavements blocked

That’s ok. Your living in englandshire This is a Scottish thing.

The issue is that laws have to be black and white. If they are not people will continue to push boundaries and argue the toss.

So what they have done makes absolute sense.

Yes needed tj, which part of your brain doesnt understand that? If the pavement is narrow I wouldn’t do it because that would block the pavement (see earlier post) if by bumping up the kerb it increases carriage way room then how is that not a good thing?
As for Danny’s photos I was in the pub and didn’t particularly scrutinise them.

How is it “needed” You can always park somewhere less convenient for you or narrow the roadway. Your cnvenience to park or your wish to not inconvenience other car drivers is not a need.

As I said the law needs to be black and white because it’s in people’s nature to take the piss for their convienance.

If it’s not black and white tickets won’t stand and the rules not worth the paper it’s written on.

So if this is the rule then don’t be surprised if you venture north do it and get a ticket.

There are alternatives they just involve people changing – I know that’s hard for people to process.

so go on wrightyson 0- describe or show a google link where pavement parking is a need not a choice

Surely if it was needed there wouldn’t be a pavement just marked bay parking ?

Just mandate a minimum pavement width – not necessarily wide enough for a double width buggy though – they can use a buggy with the seat inline 🙂

easy to police

I’ll continue to pull up on the kerb without blocking the pavement

For your convenience others must suffer? Very nice.

Who are these people “suffering“ if the pavement isn’t blocked ?
People who love looking at kerbs maybe ?

Turnerguy what about the elderly person that needs support? They need to walk two abreast. Or the blind person with a dog – they need more width. Or the blind person needing a stick – the stick would miss the parked car and the person walk straight into the car

Who are these people “suffering“ if the pavement isn’t blocked ?
People who love looking at kerbs maybe ?

Prams /wheelchairs/blind/old people folk with shopping trollys /folk walking with toddlers etc etc

The question is more where are these massive pavements on narrow roads that have room to spare.

The bigger question is who is going to enforce this?

Without enforcement the legislation is meaningless and right now its either Police Scotland (who frankly don’t care) or, where decriminalised, wardens who only seem to operate in major town and city centres.

There is a lot local authorities could be doing about this but choose not to, like making one way systems where possible. Instead they hide behind crap excuses like “local road miles” and Police have to be present every morning to ensure folk don’t just use the pavement as a road to get through. Use of automat parking like in Japan (stack em up) is perfectly viable in city centres but then if we can’t implement idea from across the North Sea what chance have we got of the other side of the world?

Prams /wheelchairs/blind/old people folk with shopping trollys /folk walking with toddlers etc etc

He said he would do it without blocking the pavement.
Are you just presuming he’s a liar.

All over York there are roads with huge pavements and fairly borrow roadways by the way. I used to live on one when I lived in York. If everyone put 2 wheels on the kerb, cars could get by easier, and a couple of buggies 2 a breast could still get down the pavement.

TJ will want documented evidence of that very road or it doesn’t exist.

Turnerguy what about the elderly person that needs support? Or the blind person with a dog

I bet that they are not actually as wide as a double width buggy

The bigger question is who is going to enforce this?

traffic warden on a bike – pretty easy to whizz round the town checking everywhere, stopping to check the odd suspect pavement clearance and issue a warning, or check if they have violated the 3-times-and-your-car-gets-crushed rule.

Can pull over traffic-light running cyclists in his spare time…

I already know folk locally who ignore the 20mph speed limit as they ‘know’ it doesn’t get enforced.

I also had a wee chat with my wife who (much as I love her) is a typical school run mum, she just couldn’t compute my suggestion that she might have to park more than 20m away from the nursery. Was outraged at the thought in fact. She did point out that walking further would take longer and our mornings are already pretty tight (ALWAYS running for the train…). My suggestion that she got up earlier went down like a cup of cold sick…

I guess my point is a lot of sh1tty parking and driving behaviour could be explained by people being in a such a rush all the time, and I firmly believe that’s a cultural/lifestyle decision that will take time to resolve. We’re always rushed as the only way we could afford a house (3 bed semi) was to move out of town, hence 1hr commute either way. I suppose we could have chosen to stay in town and not be in such a hellish rush every day, but then we would have ended up in a shoebox flat and worrying about noisy student neighbours, blah blah blah. A separate debate probably..

Are you just presuming he’s a liar.

One person’s “not blocked” is another person’s “I can squeeze through there”, and “twenty five years of driving experience” might equate to “zero years of using an electric wheelchair on pavements experience”.

Good to see this thread going down the typical STW rabbit hole…

No-one every parked in France?

I don’t see why you all get so et-up about parking.

You can’t enforce it, the Police won’t enforce it and the Councils DGAS about it, certainly not in Towns and Villages.. Cities maybe, because thats an easy earner for them innit.

I bet that they are not actually as wide as a double width buggy

When you are walking with an elderly person that needs support you have to walk side by side and you need a bit of clearance each side for a stagger, stumble or slip. If yo are squeezed against a wall or towards kerb edge it makes falls more likely

this is part of why I feel so strongly about this is that I do and have done this and found my way made awkward by cars parked on the pavement. Same with pushing someone in a wheelchair

A blind person using either a dog or a cane needs a bit of extra width as well and will sometimes follow the pavement edge to locate themselves.

Good to see this thread going down the typical STW rabbit hole…

Yep, this is all-time classic STW, and not in a good way.

traffic warden on a bike – pretty easy to whizz round the town checking everywhere, stopping to check the odd suspect pavement clearance and issue a warning, or check if they have violated the 3-times-and-your-car-gets-crushed rule.

Can pull over traffic-light running cyclists in his spare time…

Hypothetically, yes. I would be fine with that.

But today?

We’ve been waiting for years for decriminalisation in North Ayrshire and it always seems to be happening “next year”. Given how cash strapped councils are I’m frankly amazed they haven’t pounced on such a money earner yet.